Spent 18 yrs in college. Yes, I have a few degrees. Loved every minute. How else would I have done it??
I think everyone should go to college, for the exposure to new ideas and new people. People become more understanding of their fellow man when they see that not everything is exactly as they have been taught. I don't by any means think that everyone needs college for their work. College just makes a more well rounded individual, like serving in the military does.
After 12 years of school I thought I had enough. I went to work in one of the highest paying factories around right after high school. I could not take any more than 6 years of that plant though.They started cutting like crazy. Back to college for 2 years, after our daughter was born, a bit of a struggle but worth it. Recieved a degree in electrical.Applied for the electricians union and bang! Five years more of night of school with the union along with working in the field as an apprentice. It went fast and was well worth it. The plant is making almost an hour now as it did over 20 years ago due to that type work going south. School was mutch more easier later in life. You would think the opposite. But I guess you want it more!
I have my journeyman red seal in machining. Basically I can work anywhere in Canada as a machinist (except Quebec) as it is recognized across the country. Up here in Alberta we do have a program called RAP which is the registered apprenticeship program. Basically it's for high school students and they work at a trade for a few hours a week while in high school then if they decide to do that trade as their career, the hours from high school go toward their hours need for their apprenticeship.
Not sure how it is in the USA but my apprenticeship worked like this:
-4 years to do, spent 2 months per year at NAIT (our technical school in Northern Alberta). The company I worked for paid all my school fees, plus while at school we can claim employment insurance which was about 70% of our wage. The company I was with paid my other 30% so I still got a full wage while at school.
- In my field, journeyman start at about $28-$30/hr.
- as a 1st year you get 55% of j-man wage, 2nd is 65%, 3rd is 75%, 4th is 85% then upon finishing you get journeyman wage.
I like that up here they show you both options (college/university or trades) equally. They never really forced you in high school to go one way and not the other. And when finished the schooling for my trade, I had no debt and started at 63,000/yr.
My sister is just finishing her family med. has over $250,000 in debt. It's crazy, but at the same time super cool that she did it.
I agree with you about trade schools. I went to two of them in the HVAC/R trade. (Refregeration, Heating and air conditioning service tech.) I had to sacrafice my playtime while I was in school, but after graduation the $$$ started rolling in. I had great jobs and employers that were easy to work with. There are trade shools out there now for just about anything. If you want to be a Harley tech or boat mechanic, drive big rigs, even in the electonic trades, there is a school for you and most have money help. I did not do well in High School, bordom mostly. I graduated in 1970 but it was hard because of the race riots and teachers that didn't want to teach as you can tell by my spelling... At 60 and now already retired, I have to say I had a good life and had every toy a person could want and still have most of them. Boats, Harleys, dirt bikes, my Jeeps, Scuba diving stuff, I could go on and on. I have also had a chance to travel. Thank God I had an understanding wife of 33 years who also likes to play. I know the economy sucks right now but at least with trade schools you have, what I think is a better chance to find a job and something you like to do. My wife did the college thing and she did Ok but that was back in the 70s and 80s when it was easy to find a job. Hopefully things will get better and the younger generation will take over this country and make it better for all and not just the few. Later, Mo.
Never got a college degree as my parents were working class folks and couldn't afford it, came close to going to jr college on a baseball scholarship but entered the working force instead. Been with the local utility company 33 years now, started with them right out of high school. Have been to the University of Alabama to take required courses in operator qualification in order to keep my job over the years if that counts for anything. Roll Tide Roll
I'm a senior in college, graduating in May with a BS. Honestly, major don't have that much to do with RL. My job I signed with has nothing to do with my major, and was completely based around me as a person, and my work ethic. They looked at my prior work experience and talked to my old bosses and looked right over my GPA and all that other crap. From a students POV, GPA doesn't mean crap (unless you have a 4.0), and you guys are right, most students do not know how to work or have any experience. It is pretty sad actually, but hey, makes the rest of us look better. I got pretty far in life just by hard work and knowing the right people, and my degree just is a piece of paper that says I went to school a little longer than others, which doesn't mean crap. It doesn't mean I'm smarter or a better candidate, it means I sat in a classroom for 4 extra years. Unfortunately, in most places it is turning into a BA or BS is required for a job, which is sad. I agree with some of the above, I would hire a hard working person over a person straight out of college with a 4.0 any day of the week. Most of my interviews I was never asked about my school activities, advanced classes or GPA, it was much more personal information about myself as a person and my ethics, loyalty, honesty, etc.
I will add that there are specialized fields where degrees do matter (doctors, engineers, etc.), but for most, it doesn't matter.
I can't tell you the number of people I know working in a field that has nothing to do with the degree they earned. Many of them in jobs that didn't require a degree to begin with.
My wife has a BS in Justice Admin. She was hired by a local police department and resigned within weeks. After 5 years of college, she found out that the actual job she was preparing for had nothing to do with what she was taught. Now she happily works as a property manager.
How many waiters have degrees in communications? Or real estate agents with degrees in social work?
I think we put a lot of pressure on High School kids to try and plan out their entire future at 17.
"Fire it on up and let's cruise a while, leave your troubles far behind"
Went to work hauling garbage after h.s. and bought the company.
Sold that company to Waste Management and went to work for them. Stuck with them for 5 years until I got sick of the corporate b.s.
Bought a campground in NM. Place had a country store attached to it that I revamped. Had to close the campground because of a college educated EPA puke that was not happy with my septic system. Promised to make my life hell with fines over a million dollars if I didn't do it her way.
Closed the campground down and brought gas to the area. Annoyed that EPA puke to the point she tried to have those fines assessed by her supervisors. I had her transferred to Squirrel Nuts, NM where she still works annoying people in the desert. I've made important connections during my stay here.
I was offered a job as a liaison between the state and the solid waste industry by the Bill Richardson administration but I turned that down because I hated that liberal puke. I had also heard that he was a true s.o.b. to work for and I didn't need that stress.
I taught myself to build websites, long before the wysiwyg way of building websites. My coding skills got me a job checking code for a few sex websites, that eventually put my in working for Penthouse media groups, which is still do part time. Yeah, the naked ladies Penthouse. No, I don't get to meet them or even deal with any of the beautiful people. The people I work with are more like me and you than the PH babes.
I think I've done well for myself without a degree.
I have a degree in business, masters in admin, masters in theology (last one was for me).
These degrees are a waste. Nothing I learned in college I couldn't have learned on the job. I love the food and beverage industry. I've been in it for over 12 years and I'm only 29. I now manage a BBQ place in Colorado Springs. My degrees mean literally nothing. A majority of the skills I have/use on a daily basis I had prior or learned on the Job. You can't be taught how to fire/hire someone or deal with a sexual harassment situation in college.
The problem is that Americans now believe that if you don't have a college degree you can't be successful. Which is total BS. We're force feeding our youth this BS and in turn what do they get? 100k+ worth of debt out of college and a 40k a year job.
I'll use my brother as an example. Seriously the smartest person I know. Degree from USC in business, a masters in business admin, a masters in theology (yea i know, we went threw a phase, that phase just costed us both 30k+). He got a job after his first degree as a copier salesman, cause you need a degree to sell copiers apparently. Then got into the drug industry (pharmacy). He worked his way to being a regional manager. He did this because of his work ethic and his personality. Both my brother and I can talk people into damn near anything. He realized he didn't like the doctors he was working with so at the age of 30 with a 1 year old he's deciding to go back to school to become a doctor. His wife is also earning a doctorate in education. Currently they have over $250k in debt for college alone. Congrats america, you're enslaved by universities.
I don't think having a higher education is worthless by any means. But lets say, a chef, do I care if he can write a technical document? Nope. I care that he knows how to cook. We need to go back to trade schools as primary education centers after High Schools general education system. But as long as schools are making millions of dollars off of people this will never change.
Food for thought: You can take 'online college courses'. It will cost you thousands and it costs the school nothing to let you read a forum they manage from your home. Sounds like a good deal right??
Where to start. Well first of all, I actually read every post prior to mine and I for one think that we have a very well rounded set of very well educated and informed (college degree or not) folks here on the forum!
I had the great benefit of my father being in the military for my entire childhood and we were stationed in Europe from 6th grade all the way through my graduation from High School. He extended his tour so I could graduate there, and I think often how important that was and how thankful I am that I was spared the "misery" of a public school education here in the states. I think I graduated 5th in my class in high school and was in the National Honor Society (all that means absolutely nothing I went to college right after high school. Being a very self driven individual, I managed to change my major 5 times and still graduate in 4 years -- 8 semesters, with no summer school or any extra anything. I worked 40+ hours a week at multiple jobs while I was in school, in addition to taking a heavy class load of 15-18 hours every semester AND being president of various clubs all at the same time. I managed to get through school without drinking, smoking, drugs or any of that. If you read prior to this, one would wonder how I would have had time for any of that! LOL In any case, I sought out the best professors and took their classes and somehow made them fit into my credits for graduation even if the subjects were a bit askew. I took bowling 3 times for instance!
I have a dual Bachelors in Recreation Management (how's that for a Jeep owner's degree ) and English and I have minors in History, Communication, and Psychology. Currently I'm the Director of Training for a Restaurant Company. I will say, I learned a lot in college, but it was the job experience from working 40+ hours a week and the leadership experience from presiding over multiple clubs, my residence hall, and the radio station that got me the job experience to exit college with a REAL resume. I suspect having to juggle the heavy class load, the multiple jobs, and all the club responsibilities also formed my excellent time management skills (which my boss compliments me on very frequently).
There is definitely not enough emphasis in Middle and High School towards students to learn LIFE SKILLS like how to balance a checkbook, how to manage your life, and how to be an effective communicator whether interpersonal or public. In college, there is too much focus on book knowledge and not enough focus on those same skills of life management and effective communication. I meet so many people in my line of work who have the worst listening skills imaginable. It is a wonder every day to me how some folks can even get out of bed in the morning! Not one person in my company has time management skills that are anywhere close to mine (this is not to say they don't have other great skills that I may not have).
I think the underlying point here is that anything and everything in life are what YOU make of them. I know plenty of company owners and CEO's that have little or no formal education at all, and I know lots of folks with advance degrees that have gone bankrupt and are out of work right now. Either way, its all about choices that make YOU happy
One of my staff members has a saying he uses quite frequently and it definitely applies here, he says "DO YOU". Seems like it would make a good bumper sticker. Worry about you and forget about all those other clowns out there running around behind each other!
Don't confuse education or degrees with intelligence.
My first attempt at education netted an associates degree in diesel mechanics. Several years later a trade school and then completed a bachelors degree in business administration.
The degree means a lot to me but it is not the end all. In my current job, not many have more that a HS diploma.
Formal education is a hit and miss since they allowed open enrollment at colleges and universities. Some folks with college degrees can't function in the real world, not because of extreme intelligence but because they are functionally illiterate and have absolutely no people skills. Many can't multi-task or make critical decisions.
The best jobs I've ever had involved working with my hands and making something other than a stack of papers.
Well, the paper they gived me sez B.S. on it! Not sure what that means. Used to be I coodn't spell colleeg gragiate, now I are one.
I have a BS in Sport Science with a minor in Business Management. I started out wanting to be a coach & chose physical education, then decided I didn't want to teach, so I changed my major between my JR & SR year. I kick myself EVERY SUMMER for that one.
It's my daily driver, if it breaks I'm screwed.
Good for you, big dog. I just had a conversation with my daughter's teacher yesterday. A prime example of excess education, and 0 communication skills or common sense. They could base the saying "Those who cannot, teach" on this poor creature.
I tremble for the future.
Keep working those summers!!
"Fire it on up and let's cruise a while, leave your troubles far behind"
Currently at school at the California Maritime Academy (CMA,) in my second year there. I'll graduate with a BS in Marine Transportation, but more importantly I'll be a licensed third mate. Plan to get a job on either a tanker or container ship, and sail the high seas.
I graduated high school in 2001, and went straight into the job market. Worked for 8 years at a lumber yard, and figured I should go back to school. Went to Santa Rosa Junior College for a while, and then got my acceptance letter to CMA and haven't looked back since. I'll be 31 when I graduate, but it's never too late to go back to school.
Associates in Applied Science in Computer Information Systems.
And I still work for the same company that I worked at during college. I'm glad I only went to a community college since I graduated with zero college loans. I paid each semester off ($1500) out of pocket, and work paid for the last year as that's when I got employed. If I could go back I wouldn't have gone to college at all, but I was pressured by the folks by them saying it was something "I needed to do". I almost dropped out about a dozen times. Also going to school in that field actually turned me completely off on it. I want NOTHING to do with that business anymore. I guess that's a downfall of jumping right into school right after you graduate. Being 18 most kids have zero clue what they actually want to do with their lives and I was one of them and went into a field that sounded good at the time.
Associates degree in computer information systems, and started to work for a large computer company. The first job had nothing to do with my degree. I set up an environmental lab, and started testing. We were spending a fortune doing shock and vibration testing so I added a lab for conducting those tests in house. I got board doing that and transferred to the electromagnetic interference lab. That lab had a little more to do with my degree. So I started back to school and got my BS in electrical engineering. I have now been doing EMI/EMC work for both commercial and military programs for over 20 years. I still enjoy it very much, and I learn something new every time we go into test.