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Old 02-23-2012, 08:46 AM   #1
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What's your level of education?

I always wonder this about people. As a teacher, I think our education system has failed many of our students because the current push is for all kids to go to college. College simply isn't for everything. I think there needs to be a system in place to help kids get into trade schools and earn a living do what they love to do, not listen to teachers drone on and on about the need to go to college.

I have a problem with people who think a formal schooled education is the way to judge a person's level of intellect. There is no substitute for real world and real life learning. I've had the joy of both formal and real world learning as it took me 6 years to earn a 4 year degree as well as a detour though the military to help me keep my head on straight. Enough of my ramblings...

...and with that in mind, what level of education do you have?

Me, I have a BBS in History and am about 4 classes or so away from a Masters in History.

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Old 02-23-2012, 08:55 AM   #2
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I have an ABA in Marketing and most of my Bachelors in Business Administration. I'm probably 2 semesters from finishing.. just haven't had the time/need to.

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Old 02-23-2012, 09:05 AM   #3
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:23 AM   #4
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i flunked out of high skooll, ( fighting, getting high) but i managed to put 31 years in the gillette company as a industrial mechanic, ( trust me making razor blades is very high tech) im not very book smart, but can fix most anything..
wife will be getting her masters in business finance this august
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:49 PM   #5
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I have a Master of Education in vocational rehab, but I'm not using it. Long story.

The only skills that I have that area really usable are retail sales, office work, and computers. Things I really don't want to do, but I know how to do them and it pays the bills. I need to remember to go down to the work center and see if they can help me with career counseling.

The problem with college is that they provided me at the time with book knowledge, but not street nor people knowledge. I'd trade a degree for a skill set that is needed no matter whether America is at its height or becomes a seething mass of a 3rd world nation. I'm scared by that and have been for a long time. I just don't know what else I want to do with my life.

I feel like going to college was a mistake, as I missed out on crucial years in trade skills so that I would have been on my way by the time I was in my late 20s.

College does have its place in engineering, medicine, etc. but it's not appropriate for a LOT of jobs out there.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:03 PM   #6
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After 17 years of OJT, I just started to go back to school to get a bachelors of science in Computer Science.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #7
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Are we talking quote unquote education, or knowledge level?
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:07 PM   #8
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College does have its place in engineering, medicine, etc. but it's not appropriate for a LOT of jobs out there.
Agreed!

AAS Electronic Principles
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BS Electrical Engineering

Not using any of it in my current position as a voice over IP engineer!
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:44 PM   #9
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I was going to go into psychology but my professor said there wasn't much to do with a Bachelor's degree unless I went to grad school. I had no plan or desire to do that, so I got a BA in English. I hung my diploma on the wall and promptly went into retail.

I'd like to go back to school and get a degree in Secondary Education and teach English in middle or high school, but I don't think I'd have seen myself doing that 20 years ago. I was clueless 20 years ago.

I agree that college doesn't need to be the ultimate choice or goal. If any of my sons had a direction they wanted to pursue that didn't include college, I'd be fine as long as they had a plan to make it happen. I think we need to invest time in helping our young adults find a path that suits them, whatever it may be.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:41 PM   #10
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Two time college dropout (Computer Science major the first time/Business Administration major the second)...finally went to trade school and got my HVAC&R certification, but I don't use it much at my current job, though I do hire my instructor to come out and work on the units in our buildings when they break. lol

I agree that for some people college is a waste of time and money and IMO can do a lot more harm than good, especially if you end up with a lot of debt from student loans and can't find any type of job in your field...or a job that pays enough to pay the bills.

My family is really disappointed in me for refusing to get a degree...maybe someday I'll go for a 2 yr degree at a community college in a field I want to work in, but I don't even know if I'll do that. It's funny cuz I graduated 24th out of around 269 at my highschool and 2nd overall out of around 600-1000 at my vocational school (Computer Information Technology program)...I had scholarships out the wazoo and lost it all when I dropped out. I probably would have finished had I not had so much difficulty in college...I ran into a number of problems there:

1.) They gave me 19 credit hours my first quarter. They said, "You're smart...you can handle it." I was a commuter student living at home and traveling 45 min to school daily. Two days a week I was at school from 7am - 10pm (I had some breaks in between where I'd get food and go pass out in the grass outside the building on nice days...or find a secluded hallway to sleep/study when it was raining), but yeah...the schedule was exhausting. Oh and I was there all 5 days a week...but 3 of the days, I only stayed until 4-5pm. I was also working part-time as an IT Co-Op/Web Developer for a local company.

2.) I had to take a placement test for math--I tested into Calculus. I go into my Calculus class and the stuff they're teaching is about 2 years ahead of anything I'd ever done in my Pre-Calc/Advanced Math classes in highschool. I had to drop it and sign up for college algebra the following quarter...which sucked because I was good at algebra...calculus is what was killing me. They also required Computer Science majors to have a considerable amount more of math courses than the math majors. It made no sense at all!

3.) My C++ Programming lab instructor was Indian. No big deal...I'm not racist, but she spoke TERRIBLE English. I kid you not...I needed to staple an assignment together and it took TWENTY minutes for her to explain where the stapler was. I didn't realize the damn things were built into the copy machine down the hall and I couldn't understand ANY of what she was saying except "Go down the hallway and it'll be down there." So I'm wandering all over the damn building searching for a stapler...I come back and she's pissed by this point, grabs my papers and walks me down the hall. Shoves my paper into the copy machine and *click* they're stapled. If my teacher whom my tuition was paying for spoke clear English...I would have understood her. When I got confused on some of the coding in the class...I would ask for help and after she walked away, I understood no more than when I first asked for help. My professor knew I was having trouble...he saw my lab papers go from A's to D's in the matter of a week, held me after class and questioned me on it. I explained to him that I meant no offense to him or my lab teacher (to explain just how Indian she was... her name was "Sonya Venkatasubramanian" or something like that) but I couldn't understand anything she was trying to teach me when I'd ask her for help and his response was, "Sorry about your luck...you're probably going to fail this course then." That's great...considering C++ is crucial for a Computer Science major...and I'm not bad at computer programming. I went to state competition for computer programming two years in a row back in highschool. Was one place away from making it to nationals my junior year. I also did a variety of web programming and software engineering projects "unofficially" helping friends out in their competitions and because of me, one group went to state and the other ended up getting some kind of award and had to do a presentation to accept it over at the local college (and when they did the presentation...they asked my oddball friend to be the speaker...after he told them he didn't want to be involved in the presentation...so he just went up and told the 100-200 people in the room that I did all the work for them and I should be up there receiving the award not them. Our instructors FLIPPED. lol). So yeah...anyway...I was VERY GOOD at what I was in school for...but I couldn't hack it due to a number of issues that could have been prevented for the most part.

Of course...I will take part of the blame...I didn't want to be there, so it didn't take much to convince me to drop out when I started running into problem after problem.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:51 PM   #11
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still in college, graduate next year with a bachelors in Health and Exercise Science then taking my ACSM test to be a personal trainer...still contimplating Physical Therapy which is what I originally wanted to do but i just dont feel like doin another 3 years of school when its already taken me 5 years to get a 4 year degree lol might get my masters in Kineisiology or go back and get my PTA (physical therapy assistant)....but then again im tired of college, I work at a garage right now as a general service tech pretty much oil changes and tire work, occasional brakes and whatnot but if i get blown out on school and end up not using my degree i may just get my ASE cert and be a mechanic ;]
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:04 AM   #12
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I am half way through my Junior year in business administration after 19 years in the Military doing Logistics and admin. I am still not sure what I want to be when I grow up, maybe a Walmart greeter or something high tech like that.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:21 AM   #13
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I think universities need to start having 2 year option or more programs because in my state there are only like 4 colleges that offer class in fire science (what I'm going for). I would love nothing more then to go live on campus and have the "college expirence" but I'm stuck at my moms going to a community college 30 miles away that honestly smells bad... Just my take

I might get a Phd from college America or UTI, they have good commercials
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:29 AM   #14
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Having an education is amazing. Our education system on the other hand is a joke.

I'll just say that I have a *LOT* of college debt.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:34 AM   #15
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I have my High School Diploma and I currently have one full college semester under my belt. I decided I didn't want to become an Xray tech, and I wanted to be home with the girl and my family. I will start back this upcoming fall at a local university for Law Enforcement Technology Which is an Associates degree. After that it's off to the Police Academy!
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:36 AM   #16
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I am a student at UTEP on my 5th semester and going for Mechanical Engineering.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:50 AM   #17
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I'm roughly 10 hrs. short of a BA. I did two years right out of high school back in the mid eighties. I got all of my basic courses and those which would apply to any major out of the way quickly, and couldn't figure out where to go from there. I also noticed that the bar was pretty low. I got A's in at least three classes that I never even went to except on test day.

Decided to "take a break" at 20. Paid off my loans and drifted into my current job at 22. When I was hired in 1989, there was no degree requirement.

I've been on that break for the last 25 years, going back sporadically when time and finances allowed. I have credit hours at 4 different schools ranging across two states.
All I need to do is get off my lazy caboose, merge all of the credits to one school and take 3 classes to finish up. I just can't see forking over the unbelievable amount of money that it would take just to have a piece of paper hanging on the wall that I don't need for anything.

I called one of those schools a couple of years ago to check into using the classes I already had to get an associates. You wouldn't believe the hoops they told me I had to jump through (no classes required), and the fees they wanted to charge me just to give me the associates. reee-dic-u-lus.

A well respected private college nearby offers "life credits". In other words, if you take documentation of training certificates, in service credits, adult learning certificates etc, they will give you college credit and basically sell you a degree for 10-20,000 bucks. Corrupt? Hell yes.

I guess what I'm saying is that the "higher education system" is about money, not learning. Some of the dumbest people I've ever met have a degree, mostly because someone bought it for them. There are many colleges and universities that will bestow a degree on pretty much anybody as long as the checks clear.

I have two daughters in elementary school. I worry that in 20 years there will be a degree requirement for them to do anything. Will I have to fork over $100,000 for them to be beauticians? or $250,000 for them to make 45 grand teaching school?

Terrifying.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:51 AM   #18
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Are we talking quote unquote education, or knowledge level?
Education level, proving the theory that it doesn't necessarily equal the level of knowledge, and therefore is not the best indicator of one's success.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:00 AM   #19
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Working towards my Bachelors in Business Administration. I am currently in the military and working in an Admin/HR field. Still, I am not sure what I want to be when I grow up.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:41 AM   #20
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:45 AM   #21
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:12 AM   #22
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Education level, proving the theory that it doesn't necessarily equal the level of knowledge, and therefore is not the best indicator of one's success.
I believe that as well.
I'm not college educated, but I've taught myself a lot. More than college? Depends on how you look at it. Take my job for instance: I started at this company 11 years ago in the mailroom. I was 23 years old. Since then, I've worked my way up to Purchasing and Facilities Manager. I do all of the company's purchasing, and I manage 3 office buildings, and a total of 7 tenants. I got to where I am the old fashioned way, through hard work and proving myself over and over. I'm now in a position where I manage people, and the way I view it, I'd take a person with no college and solid real world experience over someone with a degree any day of the week. This is not to say degrees don't matter, in some fields they are a requirement in my opinion, but what I've seen with many fresh college graduates (and I mean no offense to anyone) is no real world experience, no work ethic, and a severe sense of entitlement. I don't care what your degree says you know, you have to prove to me you actually know what you're doing first, before you get the job with the responsibility and the pay to match.
I'm also not one to gauge success or happiness on money. I live a comfortable enough life, I'm happily married, own a home, own a couple of nice toys, and have everything I need. I'm definitely not a career-driven person, because I feel there is too much more to life to focus only on your work. I feel like I'm in a pretty good place for now, and should I want to move, I feel I have the experience and skill set to do a lot of things.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:43 AM   #23
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After flunking out of my 2nd year of college in '74 and taking some night classes in the 80s, I earned an AS in Management in 1990.

20 years later, in 2010, I decided to go back and get my degree online. So at 56 yrs old I started taking classes again.
Got my BS in Management in May 2011, with a 3.93 GPA.

I didn't think I would learn much in the online classes; I figured I could just go through the motions and get my degree. As it turns out I worked really hard, and I learned far more than I expected.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:55 AM   #24
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:01 PM   #25
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #26
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I believe that as well.
I'm now in a position where I manage people, and the way I view it, I'd take a person with no college and solid real world experience over someone with a degree any day of the week. This is not to say degrees don't matter, in some fields they are a requirement in my opinion, but what I've seen with many fresh college graduates (and I mean no offense to anyone) is no real world experience, no work ethic, and a severe sense of entitlement. I don't care what your degree says you know, you have to prove to me you actually know what you're doing first, before you get the job with the responsibility and the pay to match.
.
This statement is one of the best arguments against OVER-education.

I have interviewed people for positions who are in their mid and late twenties up into their 30s, who never actually had a job.
They have letters after their names for three miles, but zero work experience. Not even flipping a burger.

We call them "professional students". Many of them are immature and very naive, with incredibly overblown expectations and a seriously inflated self worth.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:18 PM   #27
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This statement is one of the best arguments against OVER-education.

I have interviewed people for positions who are in their mid and late twenties up into their 30s, who never actually had a job.
They have letters after their names for three miles, but zero work experience. Not even flipping a burger.

We call them "professional students". Many of them are immature and very naive, with incredibly overblown expectations and a seriously inflated self worth.
It's a shame because it wasn't always like that. This generation of kids have a HUGE entitlement issue. The problem is many companies still stand by the "must have a degree" qualification, and we both know they're automatically overlooking a lot of very qualified applicants. In a way, it tells me that hard work and dedication mean nothing anymore. I have seen kids who are damn near illiterate graduate with a degree, get jobs over a working guy with a much better resume, but no degree. It's unbelievable.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:19 PM   #28
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I'm a senior in college, graduating in May with a BS. Honestly, major don't have that much to do with RL. My job I signed with has nothing to do with my major, and was completely based around me as a person, and my work ethic. They looked at my prior work experience and talked to my old bosses and looked right over my GPA and all that other crap. From a students POV, GPA doesn't mean crap (unless you have a 4.0), and you guys are right, most students do not know how to work or have any experience. It is pretty sad actually, but hey, makes the rest of us look better. I got pretty far in life just by hard work and knowing the right people, and my degree just is a piece of paper that says I went to school a little longer than others, which doesn't mean crap. It doesn't mean I'm smarter or a better candidate, it means I sat in a classroom for 4 extra years. Unfortunately, in most places it is turning into a BA or BS is required for a job, which is sad. I agree with some of the above, I would hire a hard working person over a person straight out of college with a 4.0 any day of the week. Most of my interviews I was never asked about my school activities, advanced classes or GPA, it was much more personal information about myself as a person and my ethics, loyalty, honesty, etc.

I will add that there are specialized fields where degrees do matter (doctors, engineers, etc.), but for most, it doesn't matter.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:26 PM   #29
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Hated school from the day I walked in to the day I walked out. Quit High School after my Junior year ('65) and joined the Army to go to Vietnam (never got there). Obtained a GED for High School and for the 1st year of College while enlisted. Coupl'a trade schools, self-taught/self-employed professional photographer for a few years. I'd love to go to college even now but - to tell the truth - there's nothing I'm so interested in that I need to know all about it. Maybe I have the wrong perspective, and maybe that will change, but for now I'm content to slog along and enjoy life as it is.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:29 PM   #30
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Totally agree with you, sinister. There is a trend among some employers (police,fire,EMS) to actually DROP the degree requirements. There are studies pointing to a problem, particularly in policing, with employees not being able to relate to the people they have the most contact with.

For example: Officer A has a degree in psychology, and spends most of his day working in a low income area of the city. He/she is from a middle/upper middle class background. He/she cannot adjust to an environment or culture he/she doesn't have the capacity to understand.

By requiring degrees, many public agencies were finding they were eliminating some of their best candidates, and they dropped the degree "requirement" to a "preference".

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