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Old 04-15-2007, 11:32 AM   #31
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Is my Napoleonic Complex showing again?

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Old 04-15-2007, 12:48 PM   #32
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The electoral college is outdated and unneeded in my opinion. It has on more than one occasion not gone with the majority.
I don't entirely agree with you on this one. It can go both ways, but it was designed not to go with the majority, but to represent all groups of people equally, regardless of their regional influences.

We should all be grateful to the system, or Gore would have been President in 2000 and we would have been stuck with him in the largest tragedy in the short history of our Nation.

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Old 04-15-2007, 12:58 PM   #33
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Why shouldn't majority rule? People aren't and never should vote as groups. My vote should be worth exactly that. No more and no less regardless of my circumstances.

In my opinion people spend too much time worrying about being democrat or republican. Group think is a horrible influence on this country where people who have no opinion or understanding of the things they are voting on blindly pull lever because it's blue or red.
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:22 PM   #34
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just because it is not fair. that's all.
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:24 PM   #35
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How's majority not fair? If you have three people and two want to go left and one wants to go straight, majority rules, left it is. I know it's over simplified, but if 70 percent of the country wants one man and the other 30 wants the other, how is it fair that the minority should rule?
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:31 PM   #36
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my view on voting is you pick the lesser of two evils. not a hard choice when hellary clinton and barack hussein obama are on one side.

the electoral college is needed in a lot of elections but not in order to decide whos going into an office. the people of the electoral college know more about the stuff being voteon than most of us do. IE. a vote on senate bill 14.3d-5ae79. would you want to have to vote everytime something like this comes up. we would never get any work done and we would never know all aspects of wahts being voted upon. therefore, we vote for people (representatives that make up the electoral college) who make those votes for us. but they should not make the votes on who goes into office
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:37 PM   #37
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I'm purely talking the presidential election and don't claim to be the brightest crayon in the box on government, but I do vote and I don't vote blind. I've not been happy with the candidates for some time, however voting gives me the right to piss and moan over what's going on.

I do believe that the people who go into government do so for good reasons. They want to make this country what is should be, could be, and is. But, just like a wide eyed teenager who's bent on changing the world, they learn that working inside the system isn't quite as cut and dry.

I do think the smart ones don't run, they see what happens and how there's no way to come out the otherside clean. And as the old saying goes absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:42 PM   #38
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nice insight tiny
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:45 PM   #39
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It's the best system in the world. The reason that you hear so many people knock our government is because we are free to. In most countries you would be considered a traitor for speaking out against the goverment.
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Old 04-15-2007, 01:55 PM   #40
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It's a great system, though all systems how a downside. And it works perfectly when people participate. I find voter turnout stats depressing. I started to vote the day I turned 18. I don't discuss who or what I vote for, or why because I think people should make their own choices. I hate group think. People become a pack far too easily.
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:14 PM   #41
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But that's exactly what you'd get with majority rule.

We aren't a democracy and were never meant to be, we are a representative republic.
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:29 PM   #42
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My great-grandmother voted a straight ticket no matter what. Group think abounds in this system, representative or democracy.
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odhinn View Post
All hail Tiniest Caesar.

We shall revolt.

I'm out of coffee now
I don't know about you but Amy says I'm already revolting...
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:30 PM   #44
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She's just trying to make sure you don't get all cocky from having such a sweet little wife
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:36 PM   #45
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I agree with Tiny that majority should rule. The system was originally created because the people who were voting usually didn't know what they were voting for, there was not TV or radio etc. They had probably never even seem the candidates or hard them talk or seen a debate. A lot of people couldn't read either. So they set up a system where college graduates and educated people would pick for them.
This is uneeded now, now people can see hwat they are voting for and each person should have a say. For example a republican in Mass. has no reason to vote, they know that the democrats will win Mass. THis is most people dont go to the polls, and then not only is it not the majority ruling, it is only a smalle percent of people even voting, and some of those not even being included!
Why would it be so bad if whoever won the majority won the election, your only reason so far has been that gore would be in office, yet you have no idea how he would have handled the situation so that is completetly unfair to judge him.


and by no means is it a bad system, it just seems that it could be updated so easily and made even better, but people are afraid to change the way things have been.

and on the test i ranked the same as the dalai llama?!?
weird
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:45 PM   #46
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And there's where I have a problem. If you live in a state that always goes to one party it does start to feel like there's no point to voting because your vote feels as though it doesn't count in the end.

It's sad to know that people don't vote because they feel the lack of a voice. That's what this country was founded on. Everyone having a voice whether or not we're speaking the same words or beliefs, we can all speak together and be heard.

I think the electorial college was a good thing. I think it worked when the country was younger, but just like outgrowing clothing or.... tires , I think the United States has moved past the need for this "fail safe" as it were.
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Old 04-15-2007, 02:55 PM   #47
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My great-grandmother voted a straight ticket no matter what. Group think abounds in this system, representative or democracy.
Yes it does.
Democracy says it is acceptable to take money or property from a nonconsenting individual because he is outnumbered.
Democracy is mob rule and the problem with mob rule is the mob, remember, more than half the voters are dumber than average, just try discussing the issues with one of the attendees at a political protest for a good display of the stupidity in politics.
A representative republic is the rule of law, it's two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner but the sheep is well armed.

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A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage." Sir Alexander Fraser Tytle
Unfortunately we seem to be at the tail end of this, people have been trying to transform us into a democracy and have discovered they can indeed vote themselves payoffs from the public coffers.
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:40 PM   #48
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I have to agree with Tiny and Debruins. I think we live in the greatest nation on earth, we've just outgrown the need for the electorial college. I want to know that my vote counts just as much as anyone else's. Also, I see it as just one more layer of government, "herding the sheep," at a time when the people of our country need to take more responsibily for themselves and the future of our country.

And, yes, Skeeter and I do disagree on this. We had quite a discussion, just a few minutes ago, and ended up agreeing to disagree.
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:47 PM   #49
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See this is why womenzez shouldn'ta outa be allowed that there vote, they gets all uppity n such
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:51 PM   #50
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Looks like someone's not getting to touch any goodies today.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:01 PM   #51
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Without the electoral college. New York and Cali would be making all the decisions. Is that really what anybody wants? Having been to both places I can say that is far from what I would want.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:02 PM   #52
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I have to agree with Tiny and Debruins. I think we live in the greatest nation on earth, we've just outgrown the need for the electorial college. I want to know that my vote counts just as much as anyone else's. Also, I see it as just one more layer of government, "herding the sheep," at a time when the people of our country need to take more responsibily for themselves and the future of our country.

And, yes, Skeeter and I do disagree on this. We had quite a discussion, just a few minutes ago, and ended up agreeing to disagree.
Skeeter and I won't hold it against yall that yall are wrong.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:04 PM   #53
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Without the electoral college. New York and Cali would be making all the decisions. Is that really what anybody wants? Having been to both places I can say that is far from what I would want.
You and Skeeter really get it. I'm glad that all is not lost.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:08 PM   #54
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Without the electoral college. New York and Cali would be making all the decisions. Is that really what anybody wants? Having been to both places I can say that is far from what I would want.

Actually, there are several states that it's the general belief that once won none of the other states matter. So essencially, that's how it works anyway.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:12 PM   #55
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You and Skeeter really get it. I'm glad that all is not lost.
oh dear. that's how it's going to be, huh? I know how the electoral college works. I also know that just because I live in California does not mean that my vote should be worth any less than in Mississippi or Nebraska.... which is pretty much what y'all are alluding to.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:12 PM   #56
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Keep posting, terror!
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:14 PM   #57
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I'll start deleting here in a minute. Watch the count.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:14 PM   #58
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oh dear. that's how it's going to be, huh? I know how the electoral college works. I also know that just because I live in California does not mean that my vote should be worth any less than in Mississippi or Nebraska.... which is pretty much what y'all are alluding to.
Actually, the electoral college makes it so your vote is equal to mine. If it weren't for the college, yours would be worth 20 times what mine is.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:16 PM   #59
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Actually, there are several states that it's the general belief that once won none of the other states matter. So essencially, that's how it works anyway.
Not so. Because in the electoral system several small states can vote the same way and overcome the the big state. Even though combined they have no where near the population to do it in a majority type system. Its the only way to keep some surfer dude in Cali from representing the farmers of the Midwest, just as an example. Which if you went by majority rule would be exactly what would happen.
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:18 PM   #60
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Yeah, I know scoob. I just wanted to see what terror said next.

hee hee!

I agree with you 100%

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