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Old 02-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #1
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Bach Crawlers Review

So I had tried to not be that guy and slam people, but I am done. I can't pretend that I have been satisfied with the service I have received and I feel I should warn others so they can avoid these places. First I'll cover Bach Crawlers, :sigh: I hate to do this, but they deserve what's coming.

I initially set up to get my lift installed back in Mid-July. Pete at the time was very professional and covered everything I needed to know on lift kits and what I would best be served with. I paid upfront for all the parts and we agreed to pay for the labor later on. He told me he would have the stuff in a week which I told him was fine, but was very specific that I could only do certain days for install and that as it was my daily driver that I could not be without it. Well tried contacting him the night before the scheduled install and he told me he didn't have anything. We rescheduled for the following week and he cancelled then too. Finally he called me the third week and said he couldn't get the tires we originally ordered and that he would need to have me select different ones.

Finally the Lift and tires were put on and as I would come to find out months later, the tires were never balanced and originally they were over-inflated to about 45psi. Also Pete never informed me about the need to disconnect when offroad. This may seem silly to some, but as someone who had never been into offroading before, this was all new to me and I needed an education.

Continuing down the road of doing business with Pete, I have had him install various components including front and rear bumpers, fender flares, steering kit with drag link flip, Rock Krawler HD Tie Rod, winch and probably something I'm forgetting. He always acts like your pal, but he is a business man and his bottom line is making money. There are several reasons why I will not do business with him again, but the primary one is that he does not stand behind his work. While his labor rate are enticing, he is not there to fix a problem if you need him to. For instance, part of him installing the new steering kit was to find and eliminate the shimmies and wobbles I had been having. This was not done and is still a problem. When it was taken to him again to address the issue. He drove it 2 miles and then looked at it while I performed lock to lock. He refused or did not think it was necessary to take everything apart and inspect for wallowing of bolts or problems present. Also he did not have a way to attach the steering stabilizer to the tie rod when we replaced it. He told me he would order one. Finally, got it in 4 weeks later and then when I went in to pick it up and have him put it on, he had to leave for some appointment. He handed it to me and I decided to put it on myself. Well when I went to do that I quickly learned that the integrated bolt on the mount was too large for the bushing of the steering stabilizer. Also when I contacted him on this I have never heard back any resolution or offer to refund me my money.

I could go into more detail on this, but I think everyone will get the point. I would highly recommend against going to Bach Crawlers I will be removing the stickers of his from my vehicle and want everyone to understand how that shop operates. If you are ok having to do your own service work for problems when you already paid for them to be fixed then I guess you won't mind using this shop, but personally I work too hard for my money to have been screwed over like this.

Now this is all just my personal opinion. I know plenty of people who have had good experiences with Pete, but I can promise you I am not lying when I tell you any of this. I'm not trying to be a jerk or fuss and boohoo, but I want people to know my story and hopefully that will help them to make a more informed decision.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #2
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My only problem is its not his job to tell you to disconnect. That's on you. His job is get the parts are install them. Not "educate" you on how to use them.
And really you don't have to disconnect while wheeling.

As for the rest of everything you went through it does sound like poor service. I have never been there. So I can't be opinionated on that aspect of the his service.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:37 AM   #3
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First off, it sucks you had to go through al of that.

This is why i do absolutely EVERYTHING I'm capable of doing on my rig. It may take me literally all day to do something with no lift and basic hand tools vs. a shop doing it, but I'd much rather take my time and do it complete myself.

I'm not ragging on you with the above comment. Just thinking maybe it's something you should try to do as well. You'll save a lot of money on labor and not have to rely on people that "say" they can do it and then not come thru for you. Plus, if you can follow directions and see how things work mechanically there's no reason you can't do all of these things yourself and make adjustments as necessary. If it comes down to the know-how aspect and you're not sure, there are a lot of people you can call on here for help.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:40 AM   #4
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First off, it sucks you had to go through al of that.

This is why i do absolutely EVERYTHING I'm capable of doing on my rig. It may take me literally all day to do something with no lift and basic hand tools vs. a shop doing it, but I'd much rather take my time and do it complete myself.

I'm not ragging on you with the above comment. Just thinking maybe it's something you should try to do as well. You'll save a lot of money on labor and not have to rely on people that "say" they can do it and then not come thru for you. Plus, if you can follow directions and see how things work mechanically there's no reason you can't do all of these things yourself and make adjustments as necessary. If it comes down to the know-how aspect and you're not sure, there are a lot of people you can call on here for help.
Thanks bud. I totally agree. As of late I have been trying to handle more things myself and am becoming more self sufficient with the help of friends so hopefully I won't have to rely on shops for too much in the future.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Rooster454 View Post
First off, it sucks you had to go through al of that.

This is why i do absolutely EVERYTHING I'm capable of doing on my rig. It may take me literally all day to do something with no lift and basic hand tools vs. a shop doing it, but I'd much rather take my time and do it complete myself.

I'm not ragging on you with the above comment. Just thinking maybe it's something you should try to do as well. You'll save a lot of money on labor and not have to rely on people that "say" they can do it and then not come thru for you. Plus, if you can follow directions and see how things work mechanically there's no reason you can't do all of these things yourself and make adjustments as necessary. If it comes down to the know-how aspect and you're not sure, there are a lot of people you can call on here for help.
I have been amazed at the lengths some people will go on here to help another Jeeper out. I might be testing this out myself when I figure out what direction I may be going with the next mods I am looking into.

This forum is awesome.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:54 PM   #6
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I have been amazed at the lengths some people will go on here to help another Jeeper out. I might be testing this out myself when I figure out what direction I may be going with the next mods I am looking into.

This forum is awesome.
Yeah buddy. It is really awesome to see
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by chrisfp88 View Post
So I had tried to not be that guy and slam people, but I am done. I can't pretend that I have been satisfied with the service I have received and I feel I should warn others so they can avoid these places. First I'll cover Bach Crawlers, :sigh: I hate to do this, but they deserve what's coming.

I initially set up to get my lift installed back in Mid-July. Pete at the time was very professional and covered everything I needed to know on lift kits and what I would best be served with. I paid upfront for all the parts and we agreed to pay for the labor later on. He told me he would have the stuff in a week which I told him was fine, but was very specific that I could only do certain days for install and that as it was my daily driver that I could not be without it. Well tried contacting him the night before the scheduled install and he told me he didn't have anything. We rescheduled for the following week and he cancelled then too. Finally he called me the third week and said he couldn't get the tires we originally ordered and that he would need to have me select different ones.

Finally the Lift and tires were put on and as I would come to find out months later, the tires were never balanced and originally they were over-inflated to about 45psi. Also Pete never informed me about the need to disconnect when offroad. This may seem silly to some, but as someone who had never been into offroading before, this was all new to me and I needed an education.

Continuing down the road of doing business with Pete, I have had him install various components including front and rear bumpers, fender flares, steering kit with drag link flip, Rock Krawler HD Tie Rod, winch and probably something I'm forgetting. He always acts like your pal, but he is a business man and his bottom line is making money. There are several reasons why I will not do business with him again, but the primary one is that he does not stand behind his work. While his labor rate are enticing, he is not there to fix a problem if you need him to. For instance, part of him installing the new steering kit was to find and eliminate the shimmies and wobbles I had been having. This was not done and is still a problem. When it was taken to him again to address the issue. He drove it 2 miles and then looked at it while I performed lock to lock. He refused or did not think it was necessary to take everything apart and inspect for wallowing of bolts or problems present. Also he did not have a way to attach the steering stabilizer to the tie rod when we replaced it. He told me he would order one. Finally, got it in 4 weeks later and then when I went in to pick it up and have him put it on, he had to leave for some appointment. He handed it to me and I decided to put it on myself. Well when I went to do that I quickly learned that the integrated bolt on the mount was too large for the bushing of the steering stabilizer. Also when I contacted him on this I have never heard back any resolution or offer to refund me my money.

I could go into more detail on this, but I think everyone will get the point. I would highly recommend against going to Bach Crawlers I will be removing the stickers of his from my vehicle and want everyone to understand how that shop operates. If you are ok having to do your own service work for problems when you already paid for them to be fixed then I guess you won't mind using this shop, but personally I work too hard for my money to have been screwed over like this.

Now this is all just my personal opinion. I know plenty of people who have had good experiences with Pete, but I can promise you I am not lying when I tell you any of this. I'm not trying to be a jerk or fuss and boohoo, but I want people to know my story and hopefully that will help them to make a more informed decision.
Chris,
I am responding to your post hoping to contact you this way, since you have continued to ingnore our attempts via phone. We do not want an unhappy customer at Bach Crawlers and always do our best to resolve any problems that arrise in any vehicle regardless of the situation. If you do not call us back, we have no way of knowing that you are not happy or might have a problem.
First, you are correct...we are a business and make money, however, our priority is to make customers happy. Happy customers are what drives business and we continue to do that, as we have hundreds of happy customers. Being "Pals" with the customers is something that I personally enjoy and it is not a gimmick. Educating the customer is part of our jobs and I feel that we do this better than any other shop in town. Going above and beyond is something that we are known for, like staying open very late to finish jobs. In fact, Chris, we stayed late many times just for you to work around your schedule whether you had an appointment or not. We hold Customer Appreciation Trail Rides because we like haning out with any and all of our customers.
What we can not control is work that is performed on vehicles outside of our shop. When your Jeep left BC, it was in excellent working order every time. Tires were balanced to "0" and aired to 32lbs. You told us that you had taken parts off of your jeep and re-installed them incorrectly. You may have also experienced problems after you severely bent your factory tie rod and continued to drive the Jeep in that condition for months. Your tires became unevenly worn...so much so, that they were destroyed. After we replaced your steering components with quality aftermarket parts, you then blamed the alignment shop for problems. I personally drove your Jeep and it only needed an alignement do to your caster being off. I suggested adjustable control arms to correct the caster and a second alignment that we would pay for.
Chris, we understand that you have had some bad experiences with your Jeep, including the wiring problems that you created, which led to an engine compartment fire. However, we always stand behind our work....which is why we install parts with LifeTime Warranties and continue to offer LifeTime Warranties on all of our labor. We invite you back to the shop so we can see what is going on with your Jeep. We will also look at your wiring problems if you'd like.
Chris,
Forums are a great place to express your opinions and feelings, however, your statement that Bach Crawlers does not stand behind their work is simply untrue. We always stand by... and warranty our work for life and invite you to come back to us.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:14 PM   #8
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Chris and Bach Crawlers,

This situation sucks all around, but I have to say there is a reason that Vendor Bashing doesn't belong on forums. It is too easy for one dissatisfied customer to wreck the reputation of a vendor without the vendor having a chance to respond and letting forum members seeing both sides of the story. I think it is great that Bach Crawlers had a chance to respond to this issue on this forum.

Off-roading (or jeeping) is a hobby that goes far beyond owning a jeep and taking it on trails. I'm not a fan of people who buy a pre-built rig or have a shop build a rig for them and then they take it out on the trail without any basic knowledge of how the rig works or how to safely drive off road.

Jeepers need to know how to use, maintain, and fix their own rigs. I understand not everyone has the resources to do the work, but everyone absolutely has the resources to at least learn about all the parts on their rig and how to repair them if they have to. Likewise, jeepers also need to be able to do quality control on any work done on their jeeps by shops. (This is a good practice for any auto you own.)

Forums like this one provide a wealth of knowledge of "how to's" for our jeeps and there are always newbie trail runs occurring year round to learn what to do on the trail.

When in doubt ask questions on how to fix stuff or drive safely!
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:42 PM   #9
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Chris and Bach Crawlers,

This situation sucks all around, but I have to say there is a reason that Vendor Bashing doesn't belong on forums. It is too easy for one dissatisfied customer to wreck the reputation of a vendor without the vendor having a chance to respond and letting forum members seeing both sides of the story. I think it is great that Bach Crawlers had a chance to respond to this issue on this forum.

Off-roading (or jeeping) is a hobby that goes far beyond owning a jeep and taking it on trails. I'm not a fan of people who buy a pre-built rig or have a shop build a rig for them and then they take it out on the trail without any basic knowledge of how the rig works or how to safely drive off road.

Jeepers need to know how to use, maintain, and fix their own rigs. I understand not everyone has the resources to do the work, but everyone absolutely has the resources to at least learn about all the parts on their rig and how to repair them if they have to. Likewise, jeepers also need to be able to do quality control on any work done on their jeeps by shops. (This is a good practice for any auto you own.)

Forums like this one provide a wealth of knowledge of "how to's" for our jeeps and there are always newbie trail runs occurring year round to learn what to do on the trail.

When in doubt ask questions on how to fix stuff or drive safely!
agreed. I was about to delete this thread honestly. But now I feel the need to respond to what is being said that I did as it is not exactly accurate. Thank you! This is why I try to do as much work on my Jeep from here on out and educate myself.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:53 PM   #10
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agreed. I was about to delete this thread honestly. But now I feel the need to respond to what is being said that I did as it is not exactly accurate. Thank you! This is why I try to do as much work on my Jeep from here on out and educate myself.
Chris,
Rather than going back and forth on a forum about "he said she said", why not bring your jeep to our shop? You know better than anyone that we are very reasonable and easy going people and business owners. Communication (in person) is always best. Again, we invite you to come over and we'll look at your jeep, as always. We want to make you happy customer...and most importantly, a very happy Jeep owner.
Pete
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #11
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Chris,
I am responding to your post hoping to contact you this way, since you have continued to ingnore our attempts via phone. We do not want an unhappy customer at Bach Crawlers and always do our best to resolve any problems that arrise in any vehicle regardless of the situation. If you do not call us back, we have no way of knowing that you are not happy or might have a problem.
First, you are correct...we are a business and make money, however, our priority is to make customers happy. Happy customers are what drives business and we continue to do that, as we have hundreds of happy customers. Being "Pals" with the customers is something that I personally enjoy and it is not a gimmick. Educating the customer is part of our jobs and I feel that we do this better than any other shop in town. Going above and beyond is something that we are known for, like staying open very late to finish jobs. In fact, Chris, we stayed late many times just for you to work around your schedule whether you had an appointment or not. We hold Customer Appreciation Trail Rides because we like haning out with any and all of our customers.
What we can not control is work that is performed on vehicles outside of our shop. When your Jeep left BC, it was in excellent working order every time. Tires were balanced to "0" and aired to 32lbs. You told us that you had taken parts off of your jeep and re-installed them incorrectly. You may have also experienced problems after you severely bent your factory tie rod and continued to drive the Jeep in that condition for months. Your tires became unevenly worn...so much so, that they were destroyed. After we replaced your steering components with quality aftermarket parts, you then blamed the alignment shop for problems. I personally drove your Jeep and it only needed an alignement do to your caster being off. I suggested adjustable control arms to correct the caster and a second alignment that we would pay for.
Chris, we understand that you have had some bad experiences with your Jeep, including the wiring problems that you created, which led to an engine compartment fire. However, we always stand behind our work....which is why we install parts with LifeTime Warranties and continue to offer LifeTime Warranties on all of our labor. We invite you back to the shop so we can see what is going on with your Jeep. We will also look at your wiring problems if you'd like.
Chris,
Forums are a great place to express your opinions and feelings, however, your statement that Bach Crawlers does not stand behind their work is simply untrue. We always stand by... and warranty our work for life and invite you to come back to us.
The wiring was never touched by hands until after the fire started. Meaning that the last person to touch it was the shop. And the configuration used to wire was all created at the shop. That is not something I created. But mistakes happen and problems arise naturally, the Jeep was fine and I am ready to delete this thread, but not before I clarify things as apparently you are wanting to twist my words.

By the way the shimmy in my steering was tires unbalanced, this could be due to how they were worn, but ultimately is now irrelevant as I have fixed the issue. New tires and a few trips to get them rebalanced and the shimmy is completely gone.

As far as removing factory components myself and re-installing them incorrectly, this could be accurate, but needs further backstory, when I asked to have that done as warranty work for steering that I had paid for I was given everything short of a direct refusal. The shop refused to remove a single component and check for wallowing or wear so I did that myself. So to the point of standing behind the work and respecting the customer I'm gonna have to call bs on that one. Bottom line is the refusal to even check, as if I were crazy for suggesting that being one of the potential issues. Again I didn't care so much I just did it myself and considering the fact I never came in after that I don't know how you would have knowledge of my installing components incorrectly.

The alignment shop is not your fault. So I apologize on that count. They however, are incompetent and after three alignment attempts toe the Jeep so far in that it could have caused permanent damage or an accident.

Staying late was never something you had to do and while I appreciate it, at a certain point when a customer has spent several thousand dollars, that becomes a reward for their business. So while I am not denying that it was a very nice thing to do because it was, it is not something that I think should be attempted to be used against me.

As far as contact. One text was sent asking after I created this thread to come in. Nothing further. By the way I had sent you a message requesting you to fix the steering stabilizer mount you got for the tie rod and stabilizer I purchased from you as you ordered the wrong one. I never got a response to that. That was the night I picked it up from you and several months ago now.

Now on to the point of the tie rod. YES, I drove my vehicle with a bent tie rod for an extended period. However, this was not all my fault as I ordered a replacement from you and the quoted 2 weeks, turned into more like 5. Again this is not something you could really control due to production of the tie rod from the manufacturer, but do not paint me to be an irresponsible driver who was not trying to fix the problem as that is inaccurate.

I'm done with all of this. It's over and done with. I learned that I just need to work on my own Jeep and that you have to educate yourself on things. I wish Pete the best of luck. I wish him no malice. I plan on deleting this thread in a few days, but needed to respond to what the shop is saying as that is not near true. Again, I will be deleting this next week. I'm tired of any of it. I just had to vent my experience. As someone who spent thousands of dollars in this shop, in the end I was not treated the way any customer should be treated. I wouldn't bring my Jeep back to a shop after they refused once to listen to my suggestions on how the problem might be fixed.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:25 AM   #12
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mods please delete. This thread has run its course
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:36 PM   #13
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I'm not trying to stir the pot, just curious. What did you spend THOUSANDS of dollars on at this shop that you couldn't do yourself, that they messed up?
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:53 PM   #14
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I contacted Pete at Bach Crawlers about 5 weeks ago for a quote to do a lift on our new JKU. He recommended a Rock Krawler 2.5" lift w/springs and track bar and Bilstein 5100 shocks. He quoted a fair price for parts and labor. I paid up front and we set an install time. I would have done the lift myself but due to time constraints for work and an out of town trip with the vehicle I could not get it done myself in time. We communicated several times while waiting for the parts to arrive to make sure we were on schedule. To make a long story short everything came out as planned. I was in and out of the shop in 4 hours or so. Pete took the time to bring in his welder to the shop to properly install the rear track bar bracket as bolting them on is not enough or technically right in his opinion. He also was very informative and willing to share his knowledge with a fellow Jeeper. Before I came in to the shop he spent a fair amount of time on the phone with me answering any questions that I had even though he was busy at the time. While at the shop I looked at several project vehicles that were there and they were well built and pride of work showed. There were also a couple of customer rigs there and I saw the same quality of work and components in them. We took a 2000 mile trip to AZ and back and did some 4 wheeling while there. This was the same day after getting the work done. The JK drove and performed perfect. I still have not had a chance to get alignment checked yet but it is not far off after the lift install was done. Pete told me from the start that I would not be disappointed. He was right about that. I have a couple of things left to do yet and I will not hesitate to have Bach Crawlers order me the parts and maybe do some work. ( I do enjoy working on our Jeeps ) They are really nice folks and to me they have a great business that I will patronize. Not sure what happened to the other fellow but I did want to share my experience with them.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:06 PM   #15
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Good to see a positive review
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:12 PM   #16
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I went by yesterday about 4 and they were all locked up. Sign said Sat til 5. Another guy there at the same time said they must have taken the day off. Hard to sell anything if not they're not open...
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:47 PM   #17
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Bach knows his business.

Met Pete and his wife and decided they were the team to install my AEV lift and wheels. He even helped me install my new soft top. After my trip to MOAB he went through my jeep with me and even fixed a few things I screwed up on my WARN bumper self install project. Bottom line is that Pete had the best price in town by far and will go out of his way to make you feel like family. He has my business for life.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:54 PM   #18
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Hah! Ask me about everything he screwed up on my Jeep that I am still discovering...from suspension to bumpers to welding. Never again!

Edit: Nice guys to talk to though, and knows a lot about the industry. Unfortunately, it did not translate to quality work.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:13 PM   #19
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Hah! Ask me about everything he screwed up on my Jeep that I am still discovering...from suspension to bumpers to welding. Never again!

Edit: Nice guys to talk to though, and knows a lot about the industry. Unfortunately, it did not translate to quality work.
Agreed.

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