Out with the New in with the Old. - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > WF Local > WF Local Forums for Your Region and State > Colorado Jeep Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 01-23-2014, 09:35 AM   #1
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Out with the New in with the Old.

Well Project Spartan went to live in Las Vegas, I guess she wanted to be a show girl, so I present my old yet to be named TJ.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tj.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	24.1 KB
ID:	694289  

chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 09:52 AM   #2
Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
Sinister6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,280
Looks good, Chris! Is it a Rubi, Sport? You gonna get this one dirty? .

__________________
The Wolf is not concerned with the opinion of sheep.

MY BUILD: :
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f322/si...ad-235526.html
Sinister6 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 10:08 AM   #3
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Haha. Should be able to get this one dirty. '04 Rubicon, 65k miles, Teraflex Max Long Arm Kit, triangulated 4 link front and rear, 5.13 gears, disc brakes rear, slotted rotor fronts, manual. She's good overall wanting to do some death wobble right now. I'm rebuilding all the control arm bushings this weekend. Also need to do an alignment, she has no front track bar so I'm hoping one of those 2 things will cure it. I'm installing truck lites, new shocks, and cai this next week.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 01:26 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
GSPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 535
Install a front track bar before anything. Control arm bushing may help overall ride but even worn out bushings will not give real death wobble.

Why in the world would there not be a TB on a jeep with a long arm lift ? Check your pinion angle as well as it seems whoever installed the lift didn't know what they were doing. You will get a scary vibration/shake if this is angle is not correct.
GSPup is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 01:35 PM   #5
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Oldguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,008
It certainly has the potential to be a hell of a rig. I agree with Mike, tough to get a front four link stable enough not to get some weird behavior. Also check all your tie rod ends. That four link is going to wreak havoc on them. Do you know how long the suspension has been on there?
Oldguy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 01:42 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
GSPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
It certainly has the potential to be a hell of a rig. I agree with Mike, tough to get a front four link stable enough not to get some weird behavior. Also check all your tie rod ends. That four link is going to wreak havoc on them. Do you know how long the suspension has been on there?
Good call Ed, I meant to include TR ends also.

4 links in front need to be dialed in correctly to ensure they behave themselves.
GSPup is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 02:40 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Speaking with Teraflex directly this kit is designed to not use a trackbar. There is no trackbar bracket with the kit. He said they could get parts for it but it would be about $1k to get one to work. He said he didn't believe that it should be exhibiting death wobble even without the front trackbar as that is how the kit was designed.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 02:42 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
It certainly has the potential to be a hell of a rig. I agree with Mike, tough to get a front four link stable enough not to get some weird behavior. Also check all your tie rod ends. That four link is going to wreak havoc on them. Do you know how long the suspension has been on there?
Ed believe the kit has been on about 40k miles. The high steer kit and tie rod and drag link ends are all supposed to be new.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 02:46 PM   #9
Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
Sinister6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,280
When was the last time tires were balanced? Start with the simple ie cheap fixes first...
__________________
The Wolf is not concerned with the opinion of sheep.

MY BUILD: :
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f322/si...ad-235526.html
Sinister6 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 02:49 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
The tires are less than 500 miles old but I will be checking that out too.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 02:52 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
BrianTG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1,347
Tire pressure as well.
BrianTG is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 03:07 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
GSPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfp88 View Post
Speaking with Teraflex directly this kit is designed to not use a trackbar. There is no trackbar bracket with the kit. He said they could get parts for it but it would be about $1k to get one to work. He said he didn't believe that it should be exhibiting death wobble even without the front trackbar as that is how the kit was designed.
$1,000 Hmmmmm not likely. But I guess if that's how their kit is designed then it shouldn't be an issue.

I only know guys with the RE long arms which does include a TB so this teraflex lift is a new thing to me.
GSPup is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 03:19 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
jagerhelix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: CoLoRaDo
Posts: 908
Nice looking jeep Chris! My favorite jeep color for sure. Congrats.
__________________
My build thread
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/jag...ad-208920.html
jagerhelix is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 03:24 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSPup View Post
$1,000 Hmmmmm not likely. But I guess if that's how their kit is designed then it shouldn't be an issue.

I only know guys with the RE long arms which does include a TB so this teraflex lift is a new thing to me.
I was pretty shocked too, but he cut me killer prices on the rebuild kits for the control arms. He thought that was the most likely cause given the mileage on the vehicle and the fact that the upper arms are basically doing the job of a trackbar.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 03:27 PM   #15
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Oldguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,008
High steer adds another dimension. I did the Tereflex high steer when I set up my hp 30. It was a real trick fitting in an extended track bar with that setup. Does the steering have 3/4 ton tre's? Stock is just not going to hold up with that setup. Ball joints are another possibility and they often get ignored.

And yes, tire pressure and balance need to be checked, also where the tire weights are mounted. They need to be centered on the inside of the rim, not on the outsides.

If the tre's are new and the suspension has 40K it sounds like this is not a new problem. But if it was designed to work without a track bar then it should work. Just going to take a lot of hunting and experimenting. And start with the cheap stuff first.

Retrofitting a trackbar to that setup is going to be a nightmare and not cheap. At a grand you'd be getting off easy.
Oldguy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 03:35 PM   #16
Jeeper
 
GSPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 535
Well I must have missed the part about hi-steer. good luck.
GSPup is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 03:41 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Thanks for the input Ed. I believe they are either the 3/4 ton or 1 ton ends. The guy I bought it from said it started with the new tires. I'm thinking he botched the balance, but looking at the control arm bushings knew that I wanted those replaced too. I will definitely check tire pressure and balance as I believe that could be a contributing factor. The time it seems to want to initiate the most is when the steering wheel is turned and a bump is hit.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 03:57 PM   #18
Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
Sinister6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,280
Chris, I'd do one thing at time so you "know" where the problem was/is... Since you stated the wobble started with tires I'd start there. And I agree with Ed weights need to be centered on rim, if they're on outside of rim, I'd look to see if you're missing some. You running beadlocks? Then do your bushings etc...
__________________
The Wolf is not concerned with the opinion of sheep.

MY BUILD: :
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f322/si...ad-235526.html
Sinister6 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 04:11 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister6 View Post
Chris, I'd do one thing at time so you "know" where the problem was/is... Since you stated the wobble started with tires I'd start there. And I agree with Ed weights need to be centered on rim, if they're on outside of rim, I'd look to see if you're missing some. You running beadlocks? Then do your bushings etc...
No beadlocks. Normally I'd agree about one thing at a time but this is a rare Sunday that I and my friend are off and may have access to a legitimate shop to get the work done in.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 05:20 PM   #20
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Oldguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,008
While you're experimenting this weekend put the front axle up on jackstands and check for balljoint wear with the wheels in various turnout. Might seem fine when the tires are straight ahead but loose when the wheels are turned one way or the other. Good luck with it and let us know what you find :-)
Oldguy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 05:21 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
While you're experimenting this weekend put the front axle up on jackstands and check for balljoint wear with the wheels in various turnout. Might seem fine when the tires are straight ahead but loose when the wheels are turned one way or the other. Good luck with it and let us know what you find :-)
I will check them the seller swears he just replaced them, but then again he didn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and also didn't disclose the death wobble prior to sale.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 07:40 PM   #22
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Oldguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,008
I'd be very surprised if it just started happening. Then again it's not real bright to not mention something like that, you can get in a lot of trouble.

The reason I keep mentioning ball joints is a friend of mine with a Grand Cherokee has exactly the same symptoms and I know he has a bad ball joint. Waiting for warmer weather to help him change it. One trick he has learned is when going into a curve he downshifts to slow down rather than braking. Seems to help. Something else to try
Oldguy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 12:00 PM   #23
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
I'd be very surprised if it just started happening. Then again it's not real bright to not mention something like that, you can get in a lot of trouble.

The reason I keep mentioning ball joints is a friend of mine with a Grand Cherokee has exactly the same symptoms and I know he has a bad ball joint. Waiting for warmer weather to help him change it. One trick he has learned is when going into a curve he downshifts to slow down rather than braking. Seems to help. Something else to try
Thanks Ed. I'll check ball joints too. So you believe if everything is properly set even without a track bar it shouldn't wobble correct?
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 12:40 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
Owen_TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,738
Looks good man, great looking rig...what size rubber on there?
Owen_TJ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 01:00 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen_TJ View Post
Looks good man, great looking rig...what size rubber on there?
35x12.5x15 Thanks!
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 01:05 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
Owen_TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,738
Looks great...always been a big fan of that color as well.
Owen_TJ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 07:46 PM   #27
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Oldguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfp88 View Post
Thanks Ed. I'll check ball joints too. So you believe if everything is properly set even without a track bar it shouldn't wobble correct?
If the suspension was designed to be used without a trackbar and everything else is correct then it should not wobble. The suspension per se won't cause a wobble but it can cause excessive wear on tie rod ends and ball joints especially if the rod ends are worn. That can cause a wobble that is aggravated by the worn ends on the links. You were correct to fix the links first and it might have eliminated the wobble. Since it's still there it is likely being triggered by something else that's worn.

Start by checking balance on the tires and make sure there are no heavy weights on the rim edge. That in itself can create an oscillation of the wheel assembly which can build into a wobble.

Check the condition of the dust boots on the tre's and ball joints. If they look old or cracked the joints are probably not new. You can pull off the drag link and tie rod and take them to an alignment shop you trust and have them checked. I've done that before because it can be tricky to detect wear in a tre unless it's really bad.

Another thing to check for is looseness in the wheel bearing assemblies because anything that can allow a wheel to oscillate can trigger a wobble. It rarely just one thing which is why they are such a bitch to diagnose.
Oldguy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 08:26 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
chrisfp88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post

If the suspension was designed to be used without a trackbar and everything else is correct then it should not wobble. The suspension per se won't cause a wobble but it can cause excessive wear on tie rod ends and ball joints especially if the rod ends are worn. That can cause a wobble that is aggravated by the worn ends on the links. You were correct to fix the links first and it might have eliminated the wobble. Since it's still there it is likely being triggered by something else that's worn.

Start by checking balance on the tires and make sure there are no heavy weights on the rim edge. That in itself can create an oscillation of the wheel assembly which can build into a wobble.

Check the condition of the dust boots on the tre's and ball joints. If they look old or cracked the joints are probably not new. You can pull off the drag link and tie rod and take them to an alignment shop you trust and have them checked. I've done that before because it can be tricky to detect wear in a tre unless it's really bad.

Another thing to check for is looseness in the wheel bearing assemblies because anything that can allow a wheel to oscillate can trigger a wobble. It rarely just one thing which is why they are such a bitch to diagnose.
Ed I haven't done the control arms yet doing that Sunday.
chrisfp88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-26-2014, 12:05 PM   #29
Jeeper
 
wanderlust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: colorado springs
Posts: 1,248
Burn it. Throw a match at it and walk away. Kidding, worn bushings in control arms, any slop in steering or ball joints will make it "shake" a little. Far to often "death wobble" is confused with some steering shake . Death wobble is exactly what it sounds like , completely undrivable, you almost have to completely stop the rig to get it under control. Have a black TJ that cracked the trackbar bracket, it is absolutely unable to be driven. Sitting in front of the house waiting on some material to show up to fix it. My jeep has some pretty bad shake currently but it is not "death wobble"
__________________
2012 JKUR dozer clear coat 6spd
mods.. lots of mods
wanderlust is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-26-2014, 07:54 PM   #30
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Oldguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,008
That is true danny, "death wobble" is extreme beyond words, and there is no mistaking it. It's truly freaky to watch. Followed Chad down Boulder canyon once when his jeep was doing it. The oscillation was incredible. I can believe you could crack a track bar bracket.

I've only had the pleasure once or twice and as far as I'm concerned if I never repeat it it will be too soon. The thing I hate most is when it starts you can actually feel the oscillations start to build.

We need to wait and see what Chris found this weekend. Hopefully cleaning up some of the stuff in front will settle things down.

Oldguy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



logo carid shop wrangler parts carid fender flares custom wheels store avs deflectors at carid
» Rates
Get low rates on auto insurance in Canada!

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC