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Old 01-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #1
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Better GW Forest Maps, Would you buy one?

I’m not happy with the current maps available for the GW Forest. Most maps ignore motorized use in favor of hiking (I do both). The MVUM must be used with a topo quad to be of any use and the big Delorme book doesn’t have the detail I want.

If I made better maps that show the Jeep and ATV routes, would you buy one? Mine would include the camp sites, trail markers, trail heads, staging areas, and gates.

-Dave

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Old 01-02-2013, 02:41 PM   #2
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have you tried the national geographic maps?

National Geographic Maps | Staunton / Shenandoah Mountain

they are the best i've seen

i agree the Delorme book is not all that great.

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Old 01-02-2013, 04:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cd712
have you tried the national geographic maps?

National Geographic Maps | Staunton / Shenandoah Mountain

they are the best i've seen

i agree the Delorme book is not all that great.
The Nat Geo maps are the best available with the Potomac Appalachian Trail Club maps a close second. I use both for backpacking and mountain biking. My favorite map series is Latitude 40. I used them in Colorado and Utah. But they don't cover the east so I'm considering my own set.

I'm geographer and gis guy so I have that skill. But I don't want to invest $5,000 in hardware and software plus time to produce maps no one wants.

Dave
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafetyThird View Post
I’m not happy with the current maps available for the GW Forest. Most maps ignore motorized use in favor of hiking (I do both). The MVUM must be used with a topo quad to be of any use and the big Delorme book doesn’t have the detail I want.

If I made better maps that show the Jeep and ATV routes, would you buy one? Mine would include the camp sites, trail markers, trail heads, staging areas, and gates.

-Dave

If you go ahead with this porject, put me on your "to buy" list.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:27 AM   #5
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How much are you thinking of asking? Might help some, like me, figure out if they would be interested.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:50 PM   #6
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I am interested if it covered all the GWNF. I would be willing to help out (I work for a company that does some of this) as well as pathfind the trails to QA the maps.

Let me know.

Cheers
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:23 PM   #7
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I don't think one map for the GW forest is practical as it covers the whole state from North to South. The Delorme map backs out to a 1:150,000 scale to achieve that and lacks detail as a result. The National Geographic maps are 1:75,000 and provide much more information.

I would do the maps in a series and sell a comparable price to the others on the market. $10-20 for maps on plastic is the going rate. Smaller areas or gloss paper would be priced a little lower.

My map goal is to put together a route that would tour the forest via as little pavement as possible.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:48 PM   #8
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Very interested. Avid hiker & backcountry camper, and I like to drive to FR access points and hoof it from there. Fun but time consuming driving em first just to see what's really there.

FYI, I use PATC and ATC maps.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:59 AM   #9
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I'd buy. I'm a mapping nut. I have the Garmin 24k topo series, Delorme Topo America, the PATC maps, the PATC iPhone app, the Nat Geo maps, and a partial print out of the GWNF MWUP. I also have two Garmin handhelds.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:39 AM   #10
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Ok, I'll start with Peter's Mill and Tasker's Gap since it's closest to me. Once I get the first map out the others should be easier. I can't wait to survey more of these trails I bought the hardware and I'm in the process of obtaining and processing the underlying data. As a side project I'll overlay the 2012 MVUM on Google Earth and offer that on the web for free. -Dave
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:41 AM   #11
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I vote for maps in the areas of PATC 10, 11, & 12. Those interest me the most. I will buy whatever first run you make to get an idea of how you are mapping it and to help get it going.

Exciting stuff. How long do you anticipate these taking to develop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawa001
... the PATC iPhone app...
That one is so cool. They also have a BlueRidge Pkway app, not nearly as cool, and not really much in the way of maps. But worth every penny (free).
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:52 PM   #12
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Count me in for a map. Great idea.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:02 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SafetyThird View Post
Ok, I'll start with Peter's Mill and Tasker's Gap since it's closest to me. Once I get the first map out the others should be easier. I can't wait to survey more of these trails I bought the hardware and I'm in the process of obtaining and processing the underlying data. As a side project I'll overlay the 2012 MVUM on Google Earth and offer that on the web for free. -Dave
Dave count me in on a buy list, as well as the google earth map, i like studying the map before i leave (usually memorize them) but like to have a hard copy in the jeep
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:37 PM   #14
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On a related note, the majority of the seasonal fireroads in the GWNF Lee Ranger District are being closed for the season this Monday, 1/14/13. Some of these roads are only open for a few months of the year so my goal this weekend is to drive the majority of seasonal roads within the boundaries of I-81 on the east, WV 55 to the north, WV 259 to the west, and VA 33 to the south. I'll hit the northern half Saturday, camp at Wolf Gap Saturday night and hit the southern half on Sunday. I have 55 waypoints plotted out. It will be one convoluted path trying to link everything up. Trip report and GPS track log to follow!
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:04 AM   #15
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I have 55 waypoints plotted out. It will be one convoluted path trying to link everything up. Trip report and GPS track log to follow!
Please send that data to me. I'd love to see it. I'm sifting through the forest service gis data now. The mix of attributes between the trails and road data don't cover jeep trails. Sorting this out with the MVUM is going to be manual and time consuming.

Dave
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:03 PM   #16
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Man oh man. What a weekend. We ran out of time before we hit all our waypoints. We needed at least another day. I'll have to look at the track log but I think we did about a 175-200 miles of driving forest road and paved roads connecting the forest roads.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:09 PM   #17
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:52 PM   #18
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Interested!

If I was a better web developer, I would put together a web site for offroading that would be similar to the Hiking Upwards web site. GPS tracks, coordinates for trail heads, pass information, comment/photo sections that sort of thing...
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:55 PM   #19
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Here's a Garmin map showing a tour of the northern part of the GWNF that I did this weekend. I'll share out the waypoints and route once I get get it cleaned up.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #20
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Now that I've got the tools and the data I realize I've got a long way to go. I had hoped that I could use the Forest Services GIS data directly. However their data and attributes do not translate into neat line types and labels. I will have to look at every arc and manually determine if that trail is open to jeeps, hikers, bikes, horses, centaurs, or whatever. To complicate things further, a jeep trail could be in the roads data set, trail data set, or both.

Please post or send your tracks and comments. They will help me understand the area and verify the other sources.

-Dave
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:41 PM   #21
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We are planning a trip to Flagpole this weekend. I will grab my GPS and see if I can get you a good track.

GPX format ok?

(I will be using a Garmin GPSmap 60C with 100K topo)
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #22
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We are planning a trip to Flagpole this weekend. I will grab my GPS and see if I can get you a good track.

GPX format ok?

(I will be using a Garmin GPSmap 60C with 100K topo)
GPX is great. I sent you a PM with my email.

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:33 AM   #23
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This past weekend's Flagpole / Second Mountain waypoint and tracklog is posted at EveryTrail
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #24
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Yes, I definitely would buy!

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