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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-18-2012 11:44 AM
Yella
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
I know you're committed at this point and I hate to keep coming back and berating you . . . but I . . . can't . . . help it . . . Please forgive me. This will be it on my contribution to the topic, I promise.

If you "hate" the 3.21s, then I really can't imagine why you'd think the 3.73s are going to be enough of an improvement. Why not 4.10s? That is a stock ratio (it's standard with the 2012 manual trans Rubicons, and an option for the autos).

Like I said, 300 RPMs. That's what you're adding. In that other thread, we established that just downshifting to 5th with the 3.21s gets you about 400 RPMs, and you mentioned that you really weren't happy with the power in 5th, so why would getting a few less RPMs in 6th really be any better?? I suppose you could again downshift to comparably higher RPMs, but if you're still going to have to downshift why bother regearing at all? The 3.6 keeps churning out more horsepower all the way up until around 6k RPMs--neither 3.21s, 3.73s, nor 4.10s really even get close to that at any reasonable speed.

Your TJ was a totally different vehicle. Different engine. Different trans. Diffferent weight. Different tires. Totally different. It is absolutely 100% irrelevant to the analysis here. My wife's Yukon has 3.73s too and it's great . . . of course it also has a 6 liter V8 and is likewise an entirely different vehicle so it doesn't really inform the discussion very much.

Ahh well. In any event, let us know how it goes. For what it's worth, you'll be the only person I can recall on the forum making this slight of a change. So you'll be uniquely situated to opine on the difference in drivability from 3.21 to 3.73.
Pay attantion folks. This is good info.
02-18-2012 09:08 AM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper2012 View Post
We might be up to some easy 4 wheeling but we are keeping this rig stock for the most part. This one is our DD and we are both disabled Vets so I can't afford to beat it up.

.
My many thanks to you for your service to our country.!
If you ever get your jeep out here to Western ND, PM me in advance.
There are a lot of great back country roads and trails that will not beat up your Jeep. Lots of wildlife to view, Elk, Mule deer, whitetails, Bighorn sheep. And if ya want to shoot some prairie dogs, we can do that, also.

Happy Jeeping
Don
02-18-2012 08:11 AM
Thumper2012 We'll you can add $325 to my gearing bill, the parts dept forgot that the carrier has to be changed and they did not find out until they got it back together and there was too much play. Parts are ordered and they will be here Monday.

JeepDon and guys, we are west of Grand Forks here, we've rode south of you on the Harley a few times going to Beartooth or looking around Madora.

We might be up to some easy 4 wheeling but we are keeping this rig stock for the most part. This one is our DD and we are both disabled Vets so I can't afford to beat it up.

Hopefully we will have a good report on the 373's in a week are so. Thanks guys.
02-18-2012 08:03 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH

Similar logic for the 3.73s we discussed above, but for our 3.8s. Of course 4.10 would be an improvement, but if you're going to go through the expense and so on for a 3.8, you might as well head to 4.56 or even 4.88, especially of you're planning 33s or 35s. So if you told me you could tap my hood with a magic wand for $100 and give me 4.10s I'd of course take it, but not for $1800. Make sense?
Yep.... Saved you $1500 plus.

As JB always stresses "you only want to do gearing ONCE"
02-18-2012 07:55 AM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10

Curious to why they talked you out of 4.10's ?

To "wait and see, possibly lower come time" ?

And I agree. You never once came across as a rude person, to me at least
Similar logic for the 3.73s we discussed above, but for our 3.8s. Of course 4.10 would be an improvement, but if you're going to go through the expense and so on for a 3.8, you might as well head to 4.56 or even 4.88, especially of you're planning 33s or 35s. So if you told me you could tap my hood with a magic wand for $100 and give me 4.10s I'd of course take it, but not for $1800. Make sense?
02-18-2012 07:44 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH

I am many things, but rude is not among them. I may be light hearted, I may be serious, I may be brief or lengthy, I may stress a point that I think is important--especially if I think it's going to save someone money or set something correct that I believe others have stated incorrectly--but I'm definitely not rude.

The person I was responding to didn't have a problem with my comments. And now, as I said, he's going to be uniquely situated to tell us about his improvements. That's fine by me and, in my view, this is what folks come to forums for--for opinions, guidance, and suggestions by others similarly situated. He went into with open eyes and made his choice.

Shortly after I first started this hobby, I got it in my head that I needed to regear to 4.10s. I was talked out of it by people on the forums who had more experience with JKs than I did. And you know what? They were right and I'm glad I didn't regear to 4.10--I didn't need it then (or now really) and it wouldn't be deep enough for where I want to go.

Regearing to 3.73s is in my opinion and the opinion of many others, a mistake. Should we have kept that to ourselves? Not mention it so as to let him "do what he wants with his jeep" without jostling his potentially delicate sensibilities? That's ridiculous. Our "job" here is to let others know our opinions, not to argue with them but to help guide them, as was done to me when I had my heart set on 4.10s.

So . . . whatever.
Curious to why they talked you out of 4.10's ?

To "wait and see, possibly lower come time" ?

And I agree. You never once came across as a rude person, to me at least
02-18-2012 07:44 AM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic

Not to hijack the thread, and I am positively sure that MTH can spout his own defense as he sees fit, but I have also read a lot of his posts / advice / threads.

In my opinion, he has been spot on in his further questioning, requests for clarification, analysis, thoughts and recommendations. I personally don't think that repetition and further detailed advice is rude. I think it is the voice of someone with a lot of practical real world experience who is just trying to help out fellow Jeepers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10

Yep
Thanks gents.
02-18-2012 07:36 AM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHall1244

no i wasnt curious. it kind of irritates me how rude you are to people on mods they are asking advice on or the choices they make. i am on here all the time and just about every post i read of yours you are negative. they way i look at it at least they guy has a jeep. maybe he doesnt have much experience with mods. maybe he is new to the jeep world. at any rate they should be able to do what they want to their jeep and not have someone tell them how wrong they are.
I am many things, but rude is not among them. I may be light hearted, I may be serious, I may be brief or lengthy, I may stress a point that I think is important--especially if I think it's going to save someone money or set something correct that I believe others have stated incorrectly--but I'm definitely not rude.

The person I was responding to didn't have a problem with my comments. And now, as I said, he's going to be uniquely situated to tell us about his improvements. That's fine by me and, in my view, this is what folks come to forums for--for opinions, guidance, and suggestions by others similarly situated. He went into with open eyes and made his choice.

Shortly after I first started this hobby, I got it in my head that I needed to regear to 4.10s. I was talked out of it by people on the forums who had more experience with JKs than I did. And you know what? They were right and I'm glad I didn't regear to 4.10--I didn't need it then (or now really) and it wouldn't be deep enough for where I want to go.

Regearing to 3.73s is in my opinion and the opinion of many others, a mistake. Should we have kept that to ourselves? Not mention it so as to let him "do what he wants with his jeep" without jostling his potentially delicate sensibilities? That's ridiculous. Our "job" here is to let others know our opinions, not to argue with them but to help guide them, as was done to me when I had my heart set on 4.10s.

So anyway . . . what was this thread about again? Moving on . . .
02-18-2012 07:24 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic

Not to hijack the thread, and I am positively sure that MTH can spout his own defense as he sees fit, but I have also read a lot of his posts / advice / threads.

In my opinion, he has been spot on in his further questioning, requests for clarification, analysis, thoughts and recommendations. I personally don't think that repetition and further detailed advice is rude. I think it is the voice of someone with a lot of practical real world experience who is just trying to help out fellow Jeepers.

It really seems sometimes like OPs do not read or understand what has been posted in response to their comment or question, mainly because they ask the same thing over and over when it has already been answered.

What is really rude, in my opinion, is when the OP does not thank the folks who helped or does not post the outcome and sign off the thread when appropriate.

Soooo, I'm going to go get into my Nomex and get ready to be flamed. Have at me.

And I certainly mean no offense to you or the OP.
Yep
02-18-2012 07:19 AM
Celtic
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHall1244 View Post
no i wasnt curious. it kind of irritates me how rude you are to people on mods they are asking advice on or the choices they make. i am on here all the time and just about every post i read of yours you are negative. they way i look at it at least they guy has a jeep. maybe he doesnt have much experience with mods. maybe he is new to the jeep world. at any rate they should be able to do what they want to their jeep and not have someone tell them how wrong they are.
Not to hijack the thread, and I am positively sure that MTH can spout his own defense as he sees fit, but I have also read a lot of his posts / advice / threads.

In my opinion, he has been spot on in his further questioning, requests for clarification, analysis, thoughts and recommendations. I personally don't think that repetition and further detailed advice is rude. I think it is the voice of someone with a lot of practical real world experience who is just trying to help out fellow Jeepers.

It really seems sometimes like OPs do not read or understand what has been posted in response to their comment or question, mainly because they ask the same thing over and over when it has already been answered.

What is really rude, in my opinion, is when the OP does not thank the folks who helped or does not post the outcome and sign off the thread when appropriate.

Soooo, I'm going to go get into my Nomex and get ready to be flamed. Have at me.

And I certainly mean no offense to you or the OP.
02-18-2012 06:25 AM
southpaw75 This Jeep is my DD so I wont be doing anything crazy in it. Most trails I ride are logging roads and the like without too much rock crawling. Though eventually down the road...
02-18-2012 04:46 AM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw75 View Post
I got my build sheet emailed to me this morning. It shows 3.21 gears with the 3.8 motor. Its mainly my DD with some off road. Is it worth saving to regear? This is on 09 X model.
Back to OP-- had no intent of hijacking your thread. If you just do mild wheeling offroad; your 3.21's are fine. You can always shift to low range and have plenty of gear reduction for MOST situations. However, if you want to get into the more rugged terrain, and go SLOW, SLOW, a regear is well worth the money. I get into some deep washes, and some rough, steep pitches, so super slow is the way to do that stuff. I still haven't regeared yet, but as soon as I get our favorite Uncle taken care of this year, I will be doing just that. I will be putting 4.88's in along with selectable lockers. But then I don't use it for a DD, either. If you look at the pic in my previous post, you can kind of see what type of country I primarily run in. Happy wheeling.
Don
Experience= what you get right after you need it the most!!
02-18-2012 04:20 AM
BHall1244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
3.21s along with a manual transmission and 33" tires. And it's a 2010, so I have the 3.8.

If I were going to regear, it'd be to 4.56s. Maybe 4.88s based on their more common availability, though I'd feel compelled to jump up to 35" tires along with that.

Does any of that somehow impact my analysis, or were you literally just curious?
no i wasnt curious. it kind of irritates me how rude you are to people on mods they are asking advice on or the choices they make. i am on here all the time and just about every post i read of yours you are negative. they way i look at it at least they guy has a jeep. maybe he doesnt have much experience with mods. maybe he is new to the jeep world. at any rate they should be able to do what they want to their jeep and not have someone tell them how wrong they are.
02-17-2012 07:57 AM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20YearProject View Post
Dang it Jeepdon. Why did you have to post that picture? It makes we want to head northwest! I'm jealous that that is your backyard.
C'mon up anytime!!!
Just trying to figure out where Thumper is in ND.
02-17-2012 07:21 AM
20YearProject
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPDON
Where in ND are you??

This is 15 mins from my house
Dang it Jeepdon. Why did you have to post that picture? It makes we want to head northwest! I'm jealous that that is your backyard.
02-17-2012 05:17 AM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper2012 View Post
Yep, up here in the flat lands of North Dakota we do not have great
4 wheeling places to go. Our Jeep is our DD and we regularly do
200 mile trips to the Veterans Hospital. We also plan on runs to
Virginia and the Grand Canyon. Heck just to town and back is a 50+
mile run up here.

We are looking for a little more drive-ability and power with the stock
tires setup in 6th gear and hope not to loose too much MPG's.

I flat hate the 321's, and coming from our 02 TJ with 373's we were
much happier.
Where in ND are you??

This is 15 mins from my house
02-16-2012 01:47 PM
Thumper2012 Hey Mike,

I'll take the beating, hopefully it will not bite me in the A@@!!!!!

Mark
02-16-2012 12:29 PM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHall1244 View Post
im just curious what gears you have in your rig?
3.21s along with a manual transmission and 33" tires. And it's a 2010, so I have the 3.8.

If I were going to regear, it'd be to 4.56s. Maybe 4.88s based on their more common availability, though I'd feel compelled to jump up to 35" tires along with that.

Does any of that somehow impact my analysis, or were you literally just curious?
02-16-2012 12:24 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHall1244

im just curious what gears you have in your rig?
02-16-2012 12:18 PM
BHall1244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
I know you're committed at this point and I hate to keep coming back and berating you . . . but I . . . can't . . . help it . . . Please forgive me. This will be it on my contribution to the topic, I promise.

If you "hate" the 3.21s, then I really can't imagine why you'd think the 3.73s are going to be enough of an improvement. Why not 4.10s? That is a stock ratio (it's standard with the 2012 manual trans Rubicons, and an option for the autos).

Like I said, 300 RPMs. That's what you're adding. In that other thread, we established that just downshifting to 5th with the 3.21s gets you about 400 RPMs, and you mentioned that you really weren't happy with the power in 5th, so why would getting a few less RPMs in 6th really be any better?? I suppose you could again downshift to comparably higher RPMs, but if you're still going to have to downshift why bother regearing at all? The 3.6 keeps churning out more horsepower all the way up until around 6k RPMs--neither 3.21s, 3.73s, nor 4.10s really even get close to that at any reasonable speed.

Your TJ was a totally different vehicle. Different engine. Different trans. Diffferent weight. Different tires. Totally different. It is absolutely 100% irrelevant to the analysis here. My wife's Yukon has 3.73s too and it's great . . . of course it also has a 6 liter V8 and is likewise an entirely different vehicle so it doesn't really inform the discussion very much.

Ahh well. In any event, let us know how it goes. For what it's worth, you'll be the only person I can recall on the forum making this slight of a change. So you'll be uniquely situated to opine on the difference in drivability from 3.21 to 3.73.
im just curious what gears you have in your rig?
02-16-2012 11:53 AM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper2012 View Post
I flat hate the 321's, and coming from our 02 TJ with 373's we were much happier.
I know you're committed at this point and I hate to keep coming back and berating you . . . but I . . . can't . . . help it . . . Please forgive me. This will be it on my contribution to the topic, I promise.

If you "hate" the 3.21s, then I really can't imagine why you'd think the 3.73s are going to be enough of an improvement. Why not 4.10s? That is a stock ratio (it's standard with the 2012 manual trans Rubicons, and an option for the autos).

Like I said, 300 RPMs. That's what you're adding. In that other thread, we established that just downshifting to 5th with the 3.21s gets you about 400 RPMs, and you mentioned that you really weren't happy with the power in 5th, so why would getting a few less RPMs in 6th really be any better?? I suppose you could again downshift to comparably higher RPMs, but if you're still going to have to downshift why bother regearing at all? The 3.6 keeps churning out more horsepower all the way up until around 6k RPMs--neither 3.21s, 3.73s, nor 4.10s really even get close to that at any reasonable speed.

Your TJ was a totally different vehicle. Different engine. Different trans. Diffferent weight. Different tires. Totally different. It is absolutely 100% irrelevant to the analysis here. My wife's Yukon has 3.73s too and it's great . . . of course it also has a 6 liter V8 and is likewise an entirely different vehicle so it doesn't really inform the discussion very much.

Ahh well. In any event, let us know how it goes. For what it's worth, you'll be the only person I can recall on the forum making this slight of a change. So you'll be uniquely situated to opine on the difference in drivability from 3.21 to 3.73.
02-16-2012 11:48 AM
southpaw75 Thanks for all the feedback. I think I will sit on the 3.21 for now and save my pennies for a later date.
02-16-2012 11:43 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper2012

Yep, up here in the flat lands of North Dakota we do not have great
4 wheeling places to go. Our Jeep is our DD and we regularly do
200 mile trips to the Veterans Hospital. We also plan on runs to
Virginia and the Grand Canyon. Heck just to town and back is a 50+
mile run up here.

We are looking for a little more drive-ability and power with the stock
tires setup in 6th gear and hope not to loose too much MPG's.

I flat hate the 321's, and coming from our 02 TJ with 373's we were
much happier.
My Tj had 3.07 with upgraded 31's. Terrible highway.

Comparing a Tj to a Jk engine wise Tj was lighter and more torque @ lower Rpms. JK likes higher Rpms. More Rpms doesn't necessarily mean less MPG.

MTH pretty much said it all in that thread.

Honestly, I don't think you are going to be happy with such minimal upgrade.
02-16-2012 11:34 AM
Tuggin
No Way

I am looking to regear from 3:21s as well..when I do it will be to 4:10s or 4:56s. I am leaning to 4:10 bur may opt to 4:56 instead but I tow a boat and may have a small camper in the future. I would not do the 3:73s it is to much money for all the more you gain.

Tom
02-16-2012 11:32 AM
Thumper2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Yo are paying $1500 plus to only have 3.73's installed

Yep, up here in the flat lands of North Dakota we do not have great
4 wheeling places to go. Our Jeep is our DD and we regularly do
200 mile trips to the Veterans Hospital. We also plan on runs to
Virginia and the Grand Canyon. Heck just to town and back is a 50+
mile run up here.

We are looking for a little more drive-ability and power with the stock
tires setup in 6th gear and hope not to loose too much MPG's.

I flat hate the 321's, and coming from our 02 TJ with 373's we were
much happier.
02-16-2012 11:16 AM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Yo are paying $1500 plus to only have 3.73's installed
Myself and others tried: (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/a-c...jk-138808.html).

He'll be adding a beastly 300 RPMs to his highway cruising speed. But whatever the case, it's his Jeep and it'll be good to hear his review of the change.
02-16-2012 11:14 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper2012
We've got a 2012 JKU 4 door,

6 speed manual and it came with 321 gears, we were not happy with the gears
and plan to tow about 1600 lbs localy sometimes. We do 99% of our driving on
roads. Ours is in the shop right now getting 373's, we are hoping for a middle ground
on this setup. We'll see.
Yo are paying $1500 plus to only have 3.73's installed
02-16-2012 10:46 AM
Thumper2012 We've got a 2012 JKU 4 door,

6 speed manual and it came with 321 gears, we were not happy with the gears
and plan to tow about 1600 lbs localy sometimes. We do 99% of our driving on
roads. Ours is in the shop right now getting 373's, we are hoping for a middle ground
on this setup. We'll see.
02-16-2012 09:21 AM
babiehughie It is very hard for us to tell you what is best for YOUR jeep and YOUR circumstances. How you plan on using your jeep, how comfortable you are in your jeep all come into play.

Thant said, I have an '07 JKU Sahara 6 speed manual running 35x12.5x15 KM2's. I had 3.21 gears and was quite happy with it. Did I use 6th gear? No. Could I crawl over rocks? Not really, idling in 1st was about 6 MPH in 2wd or 4hi. I re-geared to 4.10, and what a difference!

I do live in the mountains of northern New Mexico - 6,800 ft elevation and wheel anywhere from 5,200 ft to 14,000 ft elevation (southern Colorado). I get ~ 18 MPG on average, but don't do much freeway driving. I do drive like a grandma, and very seldom rev over 2500 RPM. I feel I have plenty of power, but then again I'm not trying to beat everyone to the next stop light either.

JMHO.
02-16-2012 09:08 AM
southpaw75 That is good to know then. Some days I feel like a newb on here. But as they say, the only dumb question is the one that is not asked.
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