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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-09-2012 04:33 PM
kxavier Sorry no pictures (I should have)... given my schedule and skill level thought I'd leave this one to the pros. For the probem: it started with creak ing and progressively got worse over about six weeks or so.
03-09-2012 02:43 PM
kxavier Hey Kevbz,

Thanks very much for taking the time (great pictorial) and yah, you nailed it Ring and Pinion appear to be fine (I hope) what's in between is what's kluged up, mushroomed and tooth and a half through the grinder.

Thanks again to all for your help... great group you have here.
03-09-2012 11:05 AM
TheTJRod Ok so kinda exaggerated about the blowing up part. Though when I think of people doing it on the road I can picture a person driving on the highway when a little rain starts to fall. Thinking it would be a great idea to turn on 4wd to keep from spinning.

Kevbz - For the most part it is the same. Though the d44's should come with a LSD and he will have a bunch of friction clutches in there as well. You can tell by the shape of the carrier. If it necks down from the R&P it is open, if its the same width all the way across then it is an LSD carrier. Here is a pic of my old one that is an LSD. Also if the R&P are messed up then now is a good time to regear to a new ratio. But since you could drive on it(and didn't complain with noise driving straight) and it was locking your wheels together only while turning all my money is on the spider gears.



Also since I just love exploded drawings, here is a d44's parts. Follow the link to get the part names and numbers. If all you need are the spider gears and clutch plates it's ~300 in parts and a competent shop could do it in 2 hours or less. Hopefully only a $500 fix. Or do it yourself and save and learn.
Dana 44 Rear Axle for Jeep Wrangler TJ at Morris 4x4 Center
03-09-2012 10:21 AM
Kevbz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxavier View Post
.... oh and metal plug with square "allen" key type plug.
you also just found the more desirable of the factory axles...some folks would giggle like a school girl if they had that pleasant surprise
03-09-2012 10:17 AM
Kevbz I am definitely interested in a picture of what it looks like.

Did you do anything severe to get it to happen/start? or did it just creep on, or just BAM...there it was?
03-09-2012 10:07 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTJRod View Post
The TJ like said, could blow at anytime with 4wd on the pavement.
Not really. It will likely bind up before it'd break anything. Don't forget that wheelers do places like MOAB in 4x4 which has traction equal to a street and they aren't blowing their drivetrains. Way too many Wrangler TJ owners don't know they shouldn't use 4x4 on the street and do so out of ignorance... but without damage. The Wrangler's 4x4 system isn't THAT weak.
03-09-2012 09:33 AM
TheTJRod
Quote:
Originally Posted by bta2011 View Post
Not to get off topic..but why can't you use 4H on pavement in a TJ I can in my YJ. Just curious because my father has a TJ that I occasionally drive and I don't want to break anything. He may be old but he can still run damn near as fast as me!
The YJ has a vacuum disconnect front axle that would prevent damage when it's not engaged. The TJ like said, could blow at anytime with 4wd on the pavement.
03-09-2012 09:29 AM
Kevbz ok, this is a D35, not a D44 gear set so I am bowing out slightly since i don't know the difference entirely between the two, but the red = bad, yellow = not so bad still applies, just not sure how they come out, or if they come out, like a D35
03-09-2012 09:25 AM
Kevbz for your axle to be locking together, the area pointed with yellow arrows is where you problem is right?

the red arrow areas point to the ring and pinion (uninstalled on a bench of course).

If your damage didn't get out into the teeth of the red arrows area, it just got alot cheaper. the small screw (white arrow) comes out, the pin (starred) slides out, the spider gears (yellow) come out. Theres a few steps to get it to this point since this one is sitting on a bench and not in the axle (like sliding your axles out) but i am not sure how much of this you are going to do so i wont get to specific.

Summary...red arrow gears damaged = bad

yellow arrow gears damaged = not so bad
03-09-2012 09:23 AM
TheTJRod
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxavier View Post
Jeez thanks and not sure this is new to me. Hope your right. Will get on lijnwe to figure out what ur talkin about
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxavier View Post
.... oh and metal plug with square "allen" key type plug.
Ow.. That's a messed up d44. Take a picture so we can see the damage.
03-09-2012 09:13 AM
kxavier .... oh and metal plug with square "allen" key type plug.
03-09-2012 09:11 AM
kxavier Jeez thanks and not sure this is new to me. Hope your right. Will get on lijnwe to figure out what ur talkin about
03-09-2012 06:53 AM
Kevbz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxavier
4Hi = 2 Hi. why are you runnin four? I am a naive CA guy so I never have 4Hi weather. Increased control in snow? Otherwise you'll hurt that Jeep every time you turn on the pavement in 4hi... take it from the guy with a 1K bill
You might not be as bad as you think. If the ring and pinion are inspected as ok, and it's just spider gears and carrier pin. D35 or D44 axle? (plastic push in fill plug or metal screw out fill plug on the cover)
03-09-2012 02:00 AM
kxavier 4Hi = 2 Hi. why are you runnin four? I am a naive CA guy so I never have 4Hi weather. Increased control in snow? Otherwise you'll hurt that Jeep every time you turn on the pavement in 4hi... take it from the guy with a 1K bill
03-09-2012 01:48 AM
BT Not to get off topic..but why can't you use 4H on pavement in a TJ I can in my YJ. Just curious because my father has a TJ that I occasionally drive and I don't want to break anything. He may be old but he can still run damn near as fast as me!
03-09-2012 01:43 AM
kxavier Hey Duramax,

Thanks for the clue. They spun the same way; not good right? (re: differential locked up?). Cracked the case open to have a look: heavy damage to the "side gear" (the gear assy perpendicular to the axle right?). Bent over gears and fragments, oooy... probably in for $1000 I'm thinkin.

Jerry - believe me I know the clueless are out there, but I was not circling the parking lots in 4X mode on the asphault... wanted to put you at ease, again thanks all but screwed on this one as this is over my head from hear on out. Time for a beer.

KX
03-08-2012 11:05 PM
DeadHeadRed I used to have a 92 Isuzu Amigo and I would take sharp turn with my friends in the car to make the tires bark. We called it "barking the big dog" Tons of fun for sure
03-08-2012 07:22 PM
kxavier Thanks Duramax,

Will do tonight...

KX
03-08-2012 04:36 PM
Duramaxxed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevbz View Post
maybe jacking up the rear and manually checking the tire rotation is the way to go then...
This.

Get Both Rear Tires in the Air and Spin 1 of them and See what Direction, if any, the Opposite Wheel Spins.
03-08-2012 03:12 PM
Kevbz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxavier View Post
I'll look into wiring or position sensors, Thx again!
these boogers are all manual, with no solenoids or any thing, lever down and its off, lever up and its on. The only sensor is a 4wd light sensor on top, but no real function of the 4wd system itself

maybe jacking up the rear and manually checking the tire rotation is the way to go then...
03-08-2012 03:09 PM
Kevbz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxavier View Post
Hi Jerry,

Thanks very much for the feedback. Have had the Jeep and a couple other wheelers and am definately not trying to drive four on pavement, nor are the front wheels engaged its strictly the rears.
i know it would probably grenade the carrier at some point but how much metal shavings/bits/chunks can get wedged in between the spider gears and lock them up?

Have you opened it up yet?
03-08-2012 02:43 PM
kxavier Hi Jerry,

Thanks very much for the feedback. Have had the Jeep and a couple other wheelers and am definately not trying to drive four on pavement, nor are the front wheels engaged its strictly the rears.
03-08-2012 02:28 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteOn2 View Post
After being in 4X4 mode, it's a good idea to go in reverse (back up) for 8 to 10 feet to assist in complete disengagement of 4X4. Doesn't hurt at any rate.
It won't hurt but that isn't needed either. Simply driving normally will allow it to shift back into 2wd, gentle rather than hard application of the gas pedal helps to speed up the transition back to 2wd.
03-08-2012 02:25 PM
CoyoteOn2 After being in 4X4 mode, it's a good idea to go in reverse (back up) for 8 to 10 feet to assist in complete disengagement of 4X4. Doesn't hurt at any rate.


+ 1 ^^^^^ on what Jerry said, unless you want to replace the Unit.
03-08-2012 02:23 PM
Jerry Bransford Again, you cannot drive in 4Hi or 4Lo on pavement which is what you were doing in that parking lot. Doing so WILL cause that issue you described. And shifting back into 2wd does not happen instantly after moving the lever back into 2wd. It will take you driving it a short distance before the t-case actually fully shifts back into 2wd.

There is nothing wrong with your TJ, its 4x4 system is working normally. Once again... you cannot drive in 4x4 (4Hi or 4Lo) on paved surfaces unless they are completely covered in snow or ice. The Wrangler's 4x4 system is strictly for off-paved road use only.
03-08-2012 02:19 PM
kxavier Thank you all so much for the feedback... differential is all stock, 2000 4.0 "Sport", manual transmission. Tried 4Hi and Low in a parking lot last night and almost seemed to get worse once returned to 2Hi, but may have been perception. Engagement at the lever did not seam to feel mushy, but I'm no expert...

I'll look into wiring or position sensors, Thx again!
03-08-2012 12:27 PM
bcpaddler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextreme View Post
That was going to be my guess too. A previous owner may have been drinking beer when doing a dif fluid change, noticed his welder within reach and thought, "hey, I know...hold my beer..."
03-08-2012 12:15 PM
Dextreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandTJ View Post
Potential existence of a spool or Lincoln locker...
That was going to be my guess too. A previous owner may have been drinking beer when doing a dif fluid change, noticed his welder within reach and thought, "hey, I know...hold my beer..."
03-08-2012 11:59 AM
IslandTJ Potential existence of a spool or Lincoln locker...
03-08-2012 11:41 AM
TheTJRod As long as there was nothing wrong with the wires from the t-case position sensor. His dash 4x4 light would be on regardless of where the shift lever is at.
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