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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-20-2013 01:33 PM
st1264 Dropped them all to 38psi, stick gauge matched the readings on the screen. Don't want to drop them that much as it's warm now, I'll watch them and see what transpires.

Nitrogen has little benefit and is a waste of money. Plus, I'm sure it's not 100% anyway (as in the video ^) therefore doesn't have much or any benefit. Dealership just wants you to go there to get them topped up just to sell you more crap.
05-20-2013 11:52 AM
Old Dogger
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPDON View Post
It works real good to transfer money from one wallet to another!!
X2, Just another gimmick to make a buck, and sadly some are gullible enough to bite!
05-20-2013 09:54 AM
mckey73
Quote:
Originally Posted by relyt View Post
Nitrogen really doesn't offer any real advantages over regular old air. I'll just leave this here.
Forget the N2, Imma buy me a Suzuki Swift!
05-20-2013 09:29 AM
JPi1 Nitrogen in jeeps is a waste of $$. Save it for some useful mods!
As far as using it in racing, it was all I used in drag racing. I ran 5.5 lbs of air in 15" wide Goodyear slicks, and after sitting in the staging lanes for 30-45 minutes on hot asphalt, the pressure didn't change. And that is so important when running a spool. Moisture and wheel corrosion wasn't even close to a reason we ran it. The rear tires are only good for a few runs.
If you air down your jeep tires for the trails, run a small compressor to air up, unless you don't mind running to a nitrogen station and paying for it.
As far as tpms sensors, get yourself the Aev procal as stated earlier, and run about 30 psi instead of 35-37.
05-20-2013 09:23 AM
JEEPDON A little off topic, but; at a dealership I bought a vehicle from, they offered a 2 year service plan that sounded like a good deal that included oil changes and tire rotations. So, with that, I paid the $XXZ dollars up front for it and was getting my regular service done right on schedule. However, I started getting suspicious about the actual tire rotation; so the next time I went there, I took some white chalk and marked my tires on the inside sidewall. Bingo!!! They were NOT rotating my tires as claimed. I called them on it and never went back. This is just the kind of shit that they can get away with if they can. But they can give what looks like a good deal on the sale of the new vehicles, and then rip the customer off in other ways.
So when you go get the nitrogen put in your tires; you might want to carry your own Vaseline!!
05-20-2013 09:11 AM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaker jk View Post
We are car shopping and one dealer had nitrogen on the upgrade list for the great price of 159 bucks

I told him I didn't want it and he gave me a weird eye then said it is safer then air , I said why he couldn't give me answer

I then told him I will let all the air out and bring my own tank and fill them back up

I hate car shopping sometimes
Yup!And he probably would just add the 80/20 mix for the $159 unless you were right there watching him.
05-20-2013 09:07 AM
Jaker jk We are car shopping and one dealer had nitrogen on the upgrade list for the great price of 159 bucks

I told him I didn't want it and he gave me a weird eye then said it is safer then air , I said why he couldn't give me answer

I then told him I will let all the air out and bring my own tank and fill them back up

I hate car shopping sometimes
05-20-2013 08:56 AM
joeinajeep I use a special mix of nitrogen and oxygen, approximately 80/20... Lol.
05-20-2013 08:41 AM
JEEPDON
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshko View Post
Please explain why nitrogen is crap. Would love to hear your theory.
It works real good to transfer money from one wallet to another!!
05-20-2013 08:14 AM
relyt Nitrogen really doesn't offer any real advantages over regular old air. I'll just leave this here.

Fifth Gear on Nitrogen Tires - YouTube
05-20-2013 08:09 AM
Roshko
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL2 View Post
Roshko, the other posters jumped in and covered this already: plain old air is 78% Nitrogen. Paying for the last 22% in our particular application is not an empirically supported idea - but, some people do like it.

Temperature stability is great if you are running a, say, BMW M3 around the Nurburgring - your tires will heat significantly over the course of that lap - you do not want significantly variable pressure inside your tire and the resulting changes in traction/handling.

For folks trundling about at normal speeds, day to day - well, if it makes you feel good, it's good, right?
When I used to, as you say trundle around, in my other jeeps, with air in the tires, I always have to check the pressure, there is always a change. Now I've been trundling around my 2012 with nitrogen, and have not even once had to make any adjustments. Don't contradict people. I live in a country that gets all the seasons. Sooo it does make me feel good, so it is good. Right.
05-19-2013 01:44 PM
kik Tire pressure is checked "cold". Set it at 35 cold and you're fine. It will fluctuate hot. Hot psi is a non issue and basically meaningless. The dealer used nitrogen and will give you a free "refill" because it's in their best interest to get you into the store as much as possible where they can sell you additional service. Just like a "free" oil change. It's good business for them, not for you.
05-19-2013 12:34 PM
st1264 Nitrogen inflation was included with my new 13'. Top-ups are also included. Was this not a factory standard? From the replies here, I'm thinking it's not.

As for the temperature and PSI, mine go up to 41/42 PSI when the tires are hot... drove 5 miles and it sat in the sun for 45mins (last night they were all 39/40):



I think this is too high. I'll drop em to 35 one morning in the garage, when cold (if I remember). 35 cold and 37 hot seems right to me for on-road use.
05-19-2013 12:01 PM
sittingduck331 Clearing the Air About Nitrogen Tire Inflation

Tire Tech Information - Clearing the Air About Nitrogen Tire Inflation


The Influence of Altitude Changes on Tire Pressure

Tire Tech Information - The Influence of Altitude Changes on Tire Pressure


Air Pressure, Temperature Fluctuations

Tire Tech Information - Air Pressure, Temperature Fluctuations


Little bit of education.
05-19-2013 11:23 AM
Marc W The real reason you see nitrogen being used in street cars is because there is a big profit to be made by selling it as a benefit. Just like expensive paint protectant that you never have to wax and anti rust underside protectant and anti stain interior protectant and security window etching.. etc. etc.
Race cars use it because it is a little more pressure controlable due to the fact it is a single compound instead of multiple (including water) like regular air. That means that what's in those race tires is always the same and not variable due to humidity that goes up and down. That helps for the very fine air pressure adjustments that they use for performance. They know exactly what the 'air' in those tires is going to do as temps go up and down and that allows them to fine tune their setup. If you watch NASCAR you'll see them using air pressure adjustments of 1/4 lb
While the argument can be made that injecting air with a percentage of water in it into your tire space is not good for the wheel, obviously wheel failure due to that hasn't exactly been a problem in the auto world.
In my opinion, the auto industry (dealers in particular) see the fact that nitrogen is used in racing, as a hype they can use to add some profit for them because... "if it's a benefit in racing performance then it's got to be good for you too".

Also... if you do want to use nitrogen, you can go to a welding supply and purchase a large bottle of it with a pressure gauge and air hose to do it yourself in your garage.
That's a lot cheaper and more convenient than paying an "inflated" price at a dealer or tire shop.
05-19-2013 11:12 AM
Bayouwolf If we were discussing an $150,000 Viper, I'd be more inclined to agree that there's some science to back up the hype. But these are Wranglers. Not exactly a logical "cost vs. return" investment for a trail worthy rolling refrigerator.

IMO, the only people who should be considering nitrogen filled tires are the ones who also feel that just one specific brand of oil won't destroy your engine. It may give you peace of mind to have that extra 10-15% (Unless the shop is also filling your tires in a vacuum chamber, you're still going to have a minimum of 5-10% atmospheric content) but there's no empirical scientific evidence to prove it's worth the cost in our application.
05-19-2013 10:48 AM
Old Dogger There is a time and place for Nitrogen on the race track.
I just can't imagine anybody using it in a Jeep, but then again, nothing is surprising anymore!
05-19-2013 09:38 AM
chris4x4
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Stable psi in variable temps
Its no more stable than "regular" air, or CO2.
The main reason for Nitrogen is its inert, thus doesn't promote combustion, and it holds less moisture, thus reducing any chance of wheel corrosion. Those are the reasons Aircraft and most race vehicles use it.

More info comparing all 3 can be found here:
POWERTANK - CO2 Air Systems
05-19-2013 09:27 AM
Chill325 I agree with DJL2 with the stability in air pressure, it's more precise, that is one reason why NASCAR and other automotive racing use it, less fluctuations in pressure. The only other reason I have heard is that it removes moisture, which normal compressed air would add unless you have a water/air separate on the compressor. They say it saves the interior of the tire from breaking down, but most tires have a 5 year life, most of mine never make it that long anyway. By removing moisture also prevents moisture from freezing at high altitudes, like airliners, which may cause an tire to be unbalanced on landings. I don't think we have to worry about that. My opinion nitrogen = " SNAKE OIL", big waste of money.
05-19-2013 09:26 AM
Ponderosa
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL2 View Post
Roshko, the other posters jumped in and covered this already: plain old air is 78% Nitrogen. Paying for the last 22% in our particular application is not an empirically supported idea - but, some people do like it.

Temperature stability is great if you are running a, say, BMW M3 around the Nurburgring - your tires will heat significantly over the course of that lap - you do not want significantly variable pressure inside your tire and the resulting changes in traction/handling.

For folks trundling about at normal speeds, day to day - well, if it makes you feel good, it's good, right?
The idea that pressures do not change with heat using nitrogen is not accurate. There is no difference in temperature stability with nitrogen than with air - Ideal Gas Law. The only benefit to nitrogen is that it is dry (if pure) and contains no water vapor. Water vapor can cause rust on the inside of wheels. At cold temps the water vapor will condense out of the mixture onto the inside walls of the tires. With oxygen in the mix, corrosion is possible. This is not a big problem - who ever heard of a wheel rusting out from the inside - and certainly not worth the cost/hassle of using nitrogen.
05-19-2013 09:06 AM
DJL2 Roshko, the other posters jumped in and covered this already: plain old air is 78% Nitrogen. Paying for the last 22% in our particular application is not an empirically supported idea - but, some people do like it.

Temperature stability is great if you are running a, say, BMW M3 around the Nurburgring - your tires will heat significantly over the course of that lap - you do not want significantly variable pressure inside your tire and the resulting changes in traction/handling.

For folks trundling about at normal speeds, day to day - well, if it makes you feel good, it's good, right?
05-19-2013 08:26 AM
Roshko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaker jk View Post
Yes , you are just letting a different kind of air out

Now if you drop them to low then I don't know what you have to do get them aired back up

Me I never used the crap , but then again I put air in and out of my tires a lot
Please explain why nitrogen is crap. Would love to hear your theory.
05-19-2013 08:11 AM
Brewbek
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Stable psi in variable temps
Ok, thanks. Doesn't seem like it would make that much of a difference in light of the fact that air is 77-78% nitrogen to begin with.
05-19-2013 08:07 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewbek View Post
OK, so riddle me this, 'what is the advantage of nitrogen?'
Stable psi in variable temps
05-19-2013 08:06 AM
Brewbek OK, so riddle me this, 'what is the advantage of nitrogen?'
05-19-2013 08:00 AM
kappaknight If you let enough air out, you will set off the sensors, but it's not a big deal if you have a way of getting the air back in. The sensors aren't that accurate anyway - but I have them in my 2013 as a way to see if one is way lower than the other ones.

As for air, don't waste your time on nitrogen, especially with Jeeps. Air is 78% nitrogen - so there's really no need to pay extra for that last 20%.
05-19-2013 07:29 AM
kik You can drop the pressure to 35 as what's on the door and the tpms should not go off. However, you need a good quality/accurate air gauge. The sticks don't really cut it for accuracy. It might go off if the pressure drops to 33; some do some don't. Regarding nitrogen, it's really a waste of $ in a JK. Maybe if you're running a super high performance vehicle there can be a benefit. When you need to add pressure, use air which I believe is at least 70% nitrogen anyway. Dealers that charge for nitrogen is just another add on that they get you with. If you didn't initially pay then you have a slight benefit unless you go back for a refill.
05-19-2013 03:53 AM
Miser We ran nitrogen filled tires on our pickup truck fleet of about 350 trucks. The nitrogen machine was expensive to purchase and after seeing it used for about seven years, I REALLY DID NOT SEE ANY BENIFIT TO IT! We still got about the same amount of life out of our tires as when we ran air. I wouldn't waste my time or money on it.
05-19-2013 02:18 AM
Rtone1583 First off, an opinion on the nitrogen. If you plan on wheeling in situation where it is beneficial to lower you tire pressure on a regular basis I would stay away from the nitrogen. If I'm not mistaken, you have to pay extra for nitrogen plus you have to go out of your way to a fill station whereas with plain old air, you can use a portable compressor and fill up as soon as you come off the trail.

As to the sensors, the light will come on but nothing detrimental will happen and they should go off as soon as you get the tires back up to pressure.

AEV sells a programmer that does a multitude of different things including making adjustments to the tire pressure monitoring system.

Can be found here: ProCal Module - Shop By Category

or here: AEV - American Expedition Vehicles - ProCal Module - Quadratec

Also an opinion on the TPMS. I feel it is more of a CYA reaction from tire and auto manufacturers stemming from the Explorer/Firestone issue and have found, in my personal experience, that they are not really that accurate when compared against a quality pressure gauge (my light stays on even though I don't run below 33 psi on the road and more often than not it is on even at 35 psi).
05-19-2013 02:16 AM
Jaker jk Yes , you are just letting a different kind of air out

Now if you drop them to low then I don't know what you have to do get them aired back up

Me I never used the crap , but then again I put air in and out of my tires a lot
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