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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-12-2013 08:44 PM
n00g7
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinS4 View Post
I'm guessing you weren't a finance or math major...
Just an engineer that purchased an expensive car right after school through BMW's college grad program (1.9% to recent grads) specifically to better establish credit. Leveraged that history to buy a house two years later while the housing market was still crap and interest rates were awesome, yet pay 3/5 the average going rate for a comparable rental while building equity.

You think I'd have the credit history to obtain a huge loan at that age without 2 solid years of car payments or getting several high-interest large credit line cards (set up to pay off monthly) to push revolving credit-debt ratio down? NFW. I'd have gladly taken a 5 or 6% interest rate loan on the car, that extra $1000 I'd have paid in interest the two years I had it would be inconsequential to the savings due to (1) being fanciable and getting a house (which has increased in value astronomically) and (2) having a good enough score to get a stellar mortgage interest rate.

Sometimes you have to pay to play, and your first loan just happens to be one of those times. Let it be 5% on an 18k car loan, not 5% on your first house that costs 20 times more and where 1% means hundred per month vs a six pack of beer.
06-12-2013 08:04 PM
zerinS4 I'm guessing you weren't a finance or math major...

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00g7 View Post
If you're just out of school and got your first well paying job, you're likely not going to get fired for at least 2-3 years of starting and are making more money in 6 months than you've ever made in your life up to that point, but all your savings went to college and you have no cash assets. I see no problem with deferring payment for an inconsequential amount provided you SAVE (while you don't have expensive tastes, namely) enough cash for a $10-20 grand emergency fund that will cover you for 6 months.

OP also needs to build credit. Low, static, monthly payments are a simple way to achieve this, and she gets the jeep she wants now. She can always refinance or pay off more quickly.

The difference between 5% at 5 years (standard loan terms) and 5% at 6 years for $23000 is $700; between 5% at 5 and 6% at 6, $1,400. That's literally 1 weeks pay, 1 time, for someone making 50k. It's not that much and still yields a significantly lower monthly payment. Her future is better served paying $1400 to build credit than stuffing money into a coffee can and buying it outright.

Loans are tools, and you should use them to work in your favor. If OP can foreseeable afford the monthly payment, fuel costs, etc. in view of other expenses based on current paycheck, she should go for it. Build credit, learn how to manage budget -- and if she is in over he head on the price, trade it in for a beater and lesson learned (don't ever buy a new vehicle).
06-12-2013 06:13 PM
n00g7
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
So $15K/6 years of payments on a used Jeep with no warranty the minute you drive it off the lot? For a daily driver? For a first time Wrangler owner with no previous 4WD/Jeep experience?

Nah...
How many cars are on the road out of warranty? Tons. A majority. And most aren't exploding. It doesn't take much to perform some work yourself, or much effort as a 20-something to find someone that will help you for a case of beer. Two torque wrenches, a socket set, a set of wrenches, and the random 1-off products you need from amazon and you're good to go on almost any non-major repair. A jeep isn't some mysterious thing, it's for the most part simpler than any other vehicle on the road. I won't even change the oil on my BMW -- it has to be at temperature when drained. Hot oil in my face, no thanks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
And the issue isn't you making the payment, it is the OP. Being that you have your "Johny Walker/mutual fund" money...you can pay your TJ off whenever. Sounds like the OP does not have that luxury.
If you're just out of school and got your first well paying job, you're likely not going to get fired for at least 2-3 years of starting and are making more money in 6 months than you've ever made in your life up to that point, but all your savings went to college and you have no cash assets. I see no problem with deferring payment for an inconsequential amount provided you SAVE (while you don't have expensive tastes, namely) enough cash for a $10-20 grand emergency fund that will cover you for 6 months.

OP also needs to build credit. Low, static, monthly payments are a simple way to achieve this, and she gets the jeep she wants now. She can always refinance or pay off more quickly.

The difference between 5% at 5 years (standard loan terms) and 5% at 6 years for $23000 is $700; between 5% at 5 and 6% at 6, $1,400. That's literally 1 weeks pay, 1 time, for someone making 50k. It's not that much and still yields a significantly lower monthly payment. Her future is better served paying $1400 to build credit than stuffing money into a coffee can and buying it outright.

Loans are tools, and you should use them to work in your favor. If OP can foreseeable afford the monthly payment, fuel costs, etc. in view of other expenses based on current paycheck, she should go for it. Build credit, learn how to manage budget -- and if she is in over he head on the price, trade it in for a beater and lesson learned (don't ever buy a new vehicle).
06-12-2013 04:50 PM
ljvsnyder
Quote:
Originally Posted by yacc View Post
That seems to be a ridiculously high price for a 2007. A base model, 4wd 2013 starts at $25,700 msrp, and can likely be had for under $23,000. Add on the much lower interest rate on a 13 vs an 07, the much better engine, 6 years newer, no needed maintenance, its 4wd, etc....

I personally would not even consider an 07 2wd for any more than maybe $10k, and probably not even then.
What dealers have 2013's for $23,000? I am looking at a used model, but if I could get a new one for $23K I will take it.
06-12-2013 04:43 PM
woah_amie I can actually afford a decent monthly payment.


So yeah.

I've decided to go with a new one. Warranty included.
06-12-2013 04:40 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00g7 View Post

It's been well out of warranty for a long time. It has 50k miles, it's well accepted to last to 250k. I drive 10k miles a year, your concerns are unfounded. If I can't make a $107 bi-weekly car payment, I have bigger concerns than taking a loss on a beater jeep. Namely, mortgage, not having a job, and having to drink johnny walker black label instead of green.
So $15K/6 years of payments on a used Jeep with no warranty the minute you drive it off the lot? For a daily driver? For a first time Wrangler owner with no previous 4WD/Jeep experience?

Nah...

And the issue isn't you making the payment, it is the OP. Being that you have your "Johny Walker/mutual fund" money...you can pay your TJ off whenever. Sounds like the OP does not have that luxury.

Of course, I think the OP should put off the Wrangler save up a bit longer, but that is another story.
06-12-2013 04:00 PM
n00g7
Quote:
Originally Posted by BManz View Post
Guaranteed returns every year, right?
OT, but as one who has won (big) and lost (big) multiple times, there are no guarantees of cashing out gains when you need to in a pumped-up market....pop! Just sayin'.

I save and buy vehicles outright, no loans, no interest and it makes the buying process oh so easy.
No guarantees, but even if you look at where we were before the bottom fell out of the market, you'd be even by now less inflation. Further, if you're buying new, you're instantly pissing away the 20% drop in value for your insurance company if you total it. $100-300 insurance for the loan and you wont have to pay the difference if you total it, and they'll generally credit you a value close to the loan amount. Again, I think it's a poor way to manage your liability and money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Plus, the initial point was missed. 4 years from now, he will still be making payments (with 2 years left) on a used vehicle well out of warranty.
It's been well out of warranty for a long time. It has 50k miles, it's well accepted to last to 250k. I drive 10k miles a year, your concerns are unfounded. If I can't make a $107 bi-weekly car payment, I have bigger concerns than taking a loss on a beater jeep. Namely, mortgage, not having a job, and having to drink johnny walker black label instead of green.
06-12-2013 03:57 PM
drakenclimber
Quote:
Originally Posted by BManz View Post
Guaranteed returns every year, right?
I save and buy vehicles outright, no loans, no interest and it makes the buying process oh so easy and such a pain in the butt for the sales people when they have no financial boxes to create smoke with, just the price and "doc fee". And, I would never ever buy a non-4x4 Jeep just for the fact that when it comes time to sell/trade, it is so much easier if it is what it's supposed to be: four...wheel...drive.
I also use (and recommend) the quoted approach.

My father is of the other opinion, where if you can get a good rate, then by all means go invest in mutual funds or whatever. He has had the privilege of living in more stable/lucrative times.

It comes down to your tolerance for risk. (Given the current political/economic/social turmoil, I would err on the side of caution. But again, that's solely my opinion.)
06-12-2013 03:34 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by BManz View Post
Guaranteed returns every year, right?
OT, but as one who has won (big) and lost (big) multiple times, there are no guarantees of cashing out gains when you need to in a pumped-up market....pop! Just sayin'.

I save and buy vehicles outright, no loans, no interest and it makes the buying process oh so easy and such a pain in the butt for the sales people when they have no financial boxes to create smoke with, just the price and "doc fee". And, I would never ever buy a non-4x4 Jeep just for the fact that when it comes time to sell/trade, it is so much easier if it is what it's supposed to be: four...wheel...drive.
x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Plus, the initial point was missed. 4 years from now, he will still be making payments (with 2 years left) on a used vehicle well out of warranty.
06-12-2013 03:26 PM
BManz
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00g7 View Post
15,000 * 20% (the increase in my mutual fund over this last year) = $3,000
Guaranteed returns every year, right?
OT, but as one who has won (big) and lost (big) multiple times, there are no guarantees of cashing out gains when you need to in a pumped-up market....pop! Just sayin'.

I save and buy vehicles outright, no loans, no interest and it makes the buying process oh so easy and such a pain in the butt for the sales people when they have no financial boxes to create smoke with, just the price and "doc fee". And, I would never ever buy a non-4x4 Jeep just for the fact that when it comes time to sell/trade, it is so much easier if it is what it's supposed to be: four...wheel...drive.
06-12-2013 03:08 PM
AeroSynch
Quote:
Originally Posted by woah_amie View Post
ooooooooohhhhhh. any way I can stop by and get some parts I want installed?

lol i'll pay, obviously.
Sure thing! Let me know if you want the name and information via Private Message.
06-12-2013 12:15 PM
LewdDude I would say a 2WD wrangler takes away half the fun of it... Not that topless isn't still fun in a Wrangler, but with 2WD is, well pointless! Get a convertible mustang if you want 2WD. AND it's the 3.8L motor in that 2007 AND its at that magic 50k mile mark for oil consuming!!!!! I would Run from this vehicle!!!! Just my .02cents
06-12-2013 11:45 AM
n00g7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott in Houston View Post
What??
Seriously, there isn't a person on the planet who knows finance that would suggest a 6 year note on a USED car. That's insane. It's not about 'amortization' tables alone. It's also about a depreciating asset that only costs more to own the older it gets, and now you've got a 6 year note on a 2 or 3 year old car??? That means you're still making a loan payment on a 8 or 9 year old car in the future. That's just a BAD idea.
15,000 * 20% (the increase in my mutual fund over this last year) = $3,000

Total interest on $15,000 loan at 3.85% over 6 years = $1,823.09

Therefore, over the course of ONE YEAR I have negated the interest payment over the entire life of the loan. At minimum, I would have only needed to invest 9k to make it a wash. Considering the trajectory of the markets at this time and interest rates, you'd be seriously silly not to take a loan over investing.

Depreciation of jeeps isn't nearly the same as other vehicles. I bought my Rubi for 15k, sold the hard top for $1,300, and could without a doubt still sell if for 15k after putting 10k more miles on it.
06-12-2013 06:00 AM
Scott in Houston
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00g7 View Post
Dude, what're you talking about? You should look at an amortization table. I pay around $250 in interest per year @ 3.65% on 15k. I could have bought it outright, but why, when: DJIA and S&P are up 20% since last year and student loans are 6.XX%? Dump that cash into something else and don't worry about it.
What??
Seriously, there isn't a person on the planet who knows finance that would suggest a 6 year note on a USED car. That's insane. It's not about 'amortization' tables alone. It's also about a depreciating asset that only costs more to own the older it gets, and now you've got a 6 year note on a 2 or 3 year old car??? That means you're still making a loan payment on a 8 or 9 year old car in the future. That's just a BAD idea.
06-11-2013 11:45 PM
n00g7
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinS4 View Post
I want to point out that I saw some folks suggesting a 6 year loan on a 5 year old, $16k used car with 55k+ miles? I've seen some bad ideas, but that one is near the top. No way, no how. If you have to take a 6 year loan on a USED car, you flat out can't afford it and need to look for something cheaper. You will be buried in the loan until the car is paid off, all the while racking up even more mileage and even more costly service intervals. No way, no how. Hopefully banks aren't stupid enough to loan on terms like this anyway.

Dude, what're you talking about? You should look at an amortization table. I pay around $250 in interest per year @ 3.65% on 15k. I could have bought it outright, but why, when: DJIA and S&P are up 20% since last year and student loans are 6.XX%? Dump that cash into something else and don't worry about it.
06-11-2013 07:53 PM
st1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by woah_amie View Post
I'm currently between two dealers right now. I should know by tomorrow. woot!
You are buying a new JK in one thread and a used one in another... Buy new. If you are playing dealerships against each other, good move. That's what I did F-ck em'. As you and I are the ones paying the bills. Get the price as low as possible and then buy.
06-11-2013 07:42 PM
woah_amie I'm currently between two dealers right now. I should know by tomorrow. woot!
06-11-2013 07:39 PM
st1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by yacc View Post
That seems to be a ridiculously high price for a 2007. A base model, 4wd 2013 starts at $25,700 msrp, and can likely be had for under $23,000. Add on the much lower interest rate on a 13 vs an 07, the much better engine, 6 years newer, no needed maintenance, its 4wd, etc....

I personally would not even consider an 07 2wd for any more than maybe $10k, and probably not even then.
This ^
06-11-2013 07:26 PM
michiganadam
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinS4 View Post
I want to point out that I saw some folks suggesting a 6 year loan on a 5 year old, $16k used car with 55k+ miles? I've seen some bad ideas, but that one is near the top. No way, no how. If you have to take a 6 year loan on a USED car, you flat out can't afford it and need to look for something cheaper. You will be buried in the loan until the car is paid off, all the while racking up even more mileage and even more costly service intervals. No way, no how. Hopefully banks aren't stupid enough to loan on terms like this anyway.
Oh they will, with 100% interest. They'll make so much on interest in the first couple of years that it doesnt matter if you pay it off or not.

I'll probably never own another car besides my JK anyway. Sick of buying cars from jerks.
06-11-2013 06:30 PM
zerinS4 I want to point out that I saw some folks suggesting a 6 year loan on a 5 year old, $16k used car with 55k+ miles? I've seen some bad ideas, but that one is near the top. No way, no how. If you have to take a 6 year loan on a USED car, you flat out can't afford it and need to look for something cheaper. You will be buried in the loan until the car is paid off, all the while racking up even more mileage and even more costly service intervals. No way, no how. Hopefully banks aren't stupid enough to loan on terms like this anyway.
06-11-2013 06:12 PM
BManz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Not all used car sales people are as bad as their reputations but there are some out there.
This is very true. The 2010 Census indicates there are 3 good used car sales people in the country. So, you have a chance.
06-11-2013 04:47 PM
woah_amie
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroSynch View Post
Yup my cousin has a shop and lifts Jeeps and sells aftermarket parts for them, as well as installs.
ooooooooohhhhhh. any way I can stop by and get some parts I want installed?

lol i'll pay, obviously.
06-11-2013 04:40 PM
AeroSynch
Quote:
Originally Posted by woah_amie View Post
It's for a 2Dr Sport.

btw did you install the side steps yourself?
Yup my cousin has a shop and lifts Jeeps and sells aftermarket parts for them, as well as installs.
06-11-2013 04:30 PM
woah_amie It's for a 2Dr Sport.

btw did you install the side steps yourself?
06-11-2013 04:27 PM
AeroSynch Thanks!

Was that offer for a Sport or Sport S, and 2 or 4 door?

If it is a 2 door Sport you can try lower.
06-11-2013 04:24 PM
woah_amie
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroSynch View Post
For a little more you can get a new one with the 3.6 V6 which is a nicer motor than the 3.8 V6. Actually I paid that exact amount for my 2012 plus taxes.

Also, I have a Sport and the only option is A/C. Arrigo didn't have the JK without A/C.

Here's a before and after so you can see it doesn't matter if you get a Sport or Sport S.


God, I love that color.

Arrigo is offering $24616 + tags. This is without my trade in. I need to drop that on him. My trade in is valued between $3500-$4000. I'm gonna try to squeeze the tags in that price.
06-11-2013 04:20 PM
AeroSynch For a little more you can get a new one with the 3.6 V6 which is a nicer motor than the 3.8 V6. Actually I paid that exact amount for my 2012 plus taxes.

Also, I have a Sport and the only option is A/C. Arrigo didn't have the JK without A/C.

Here's a before and after so you can see it doesn't matter if you get a Sport or Sport S.


06-11-2013 04:03 PM
woah_amie I also found this Jeep.

Used 2011 Jeep Wrangler Sport For Sale | Tamarac FL.

Looks pretty good, no?
06-11-2013 03:34 PM
woah_amie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott2373 View Post
Amie, I noticed in a previous post, you stated that you wanted the Sport S, because of the A/C, however you can get the A/C on the regular Sport model and save yourself about $1,500. The only other thing that comes with the "S" is the shiny chrome (Blech) shifter knobs and the 5-spoke aluminum wheels.
Yeah, I only just need A/C. Miami is too hot to be without. LOL
The wheels add a nice touch, but I plan on changing tires/wheels anyway.
06-11-2013 03:21 PM
Scott2373 Amie, I noticed in a previous post, you stated that you wanted the Sport S, because of the A/C, however you can get the A/C on the regular Sport model and save yourself about $1,500. The only other thing that comes with the "S" is the shiny chrome (Blech) shifter knobs and the 5-spoke aluminum wheels.
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