|07-07-2013 05:07 PM|
Also to add, I run 33x10.5 width tires. Narrower tires have less road noise, and under most circumstances give better traction. They also allow me to keep my tight turning radius intact since I don't have to add steering stop spacers to keep from rubbing, yet still stay fully tucked under the fender flares.
And then there is the regear. If your going to run 33's you're going to need to regear to keep your fuel economy and shift points optimal.
A lot of things as stated go into a suspension lift/tire change........especially if this is a "fantasy" setup.
You want "thorough"......well you got it.
|07-07-2013 04:31 PM|
With that said, you got mine.
A. My "fantasy" lift is 100% bolt on.
B. It technically is a 3" lift(2" SL, 1" BL).
C. This build up is a DD and actually rides ALOT better than stock, whether you use 33" or 35" tires(Mine runs both actually, 33" DD BFG AT's, and 35" SS SSR's when doing extreme off roading).
Body lifts btw have a lot of advantages(one big one being the UPKEEP and cleanliness of your FRAME from rot and rust)and have no detriments when implemented properly. Another key is it allows me to run a less aggressive suspension lift(again which pointed out below has MANY ADVANTAGES).
D. The taller the bolt on suspension lift on short arms(A key component in one of your requests), the WORSE your suspension driveline and steering geometry becomes. Keeping the control arms as close to parallel to the ground is key, that means keeping the suspension lift as LOW AS POSSIBLE.
There is no "all in one lift kit" that is truly optimal. The best built up suspensions(daily driver or not)use hand picked components that work together optimally.
If you want a quality fantasy build/ideas, then your not going to get many people linking up the typical "boxed" kits you see on the market. They pretty much all have downpoints in one form or another.
My lift uses quality Fox shocks(custom valved to work correctly with the spring rates I CHOSE), Metal Cloak short arms(Due to the duroflex joints used which are softer than stock and help to reduce vibrations through the body, along with giving maximum effortless flex....another key with a DD), OME springs(used due to their availability of stock/factory spring rates which continue the theme of ride quality first), MC front trackbar(which will allow the front axle to remain centered while not having ANY clearance issues or need for excessive bumpstopping), some odds n end parts from Skyjacker, Daystar, M.O.R.E,teraflex etc etc.........
If you want a high quality lift that rides fantastic(better than stock), then your going to be doing a lot of research and dump the idea of an all in one kit. Bolt on or not.
Your also going to need to learn a lot about spring and shock rates, bumpstopping, up and down travel(how to maximize and balance it), how to keep your driveline,suspension and steering geometry intact(especially if this is a DD where ride quality is a priority)........lots for you to learn.
And one thing you will learn about a suspension build up, is that it requires a lot more to be built up BESIDES the suspension itself.
|07-07-2013 04:31 PM|
Some random springs that net me the lift I want once I pick tires, but have a decent spring rate and unsprung length. I would go with 37 inch PBRs on some nice cheap cragars or beadlocks if I ended up needing them. Beefed up d30 and a ford 8.8. Outboarded shocks with 12 inches of travel, whatever quality shock I find a deal on at the moment. 4 link rear w/ triangulated uppers and a front 3 link. Fuel cell in the rear to get 4-5 inches of stretch. Cut the frame front and rear and move back flush with grill in the front and bring the back half up to run with/inside the tub in the rear. Add some bumpstops and arched hiline fenders front and rear.
Why? Because that's what I am building and have as a longterm goal
But really, I am not laying out every detail and that's just the stuff that came to the top of my head. There is a TON more that goes into it. Your needs will vary and what you want and think is right will vary, just like every other guy who builds out there. Local road laws etc will have some bearing too unless it's a trailer queen. mines not.
|07-07-2013 04:28 PM|
|Imped||Do you plan on wheeling or will this be a street queen?|
|07-07-2013 03:57 PM|
I requested LIFT KIT info for a 3" suspension kit that is 100% available commercially with no fabbing needed save for what goes into a long arm kit normally. I did not ask about larger tires, nor a taller lift, nor a combo of suspension and body lift.
This process could be refined if you would address what I want and not everything I have not specifically ruled out. ;-)
Getting an answer to the same question as the one asked seems to be a bit tough sometimes on this site. HAHAHA!!!
Keep posting, folks. I want to learn all about why some 3" lifts work so well while some are so craptacular. Educate me, but just on that specific topic in this thread, please. I will get to picking all y'all's brains on other topics as in time!
Thanks for helping...
|07-07-2013 12:32 PM|
So knowing that......and knowing that you realize that its true that bigger and higher does not equal better I can post this.
A. I would ditch the 3" suspension altogether.
B. Sticking with "bolt on" theme I would also ditch the front and rear fenders/fender trim altogether.
C. I would add a full set of MC fenders, which would allow you to run 33's or even 35's with NO LIFT whatsoever along with adding numerous other benefits.
D. I would add a 1" BL,MML to go along with a tummy tuck which in itself would be equal to a suspension lift of X amount of inches depending on how much extra clearance your new skid assembly gave.
E. I would now do a suspension lift and all the needed components of about 2-2.5" to allow you to run a solid 10" travel shock F/R effectively(along with some rear upper shock relocation brackets to allow you to run longer travel shocks with LESS bump stopping needed)having nearly perfect 50/50 up/down travel. The lower suspension lift keeps your driveline, steering and suspension geometry more intract for better on and off road manners.
All of this combined with 33's can in effect give you a lift of just over 7" over stock, which is significant.
|07-07-2013 12:22 PM|
|07-07-2013 12:13 PM|
|07-07-2013 11:04 AM|
Plus, this is my question. And I asked about 3" lifts. If you would like to discuss the various benefits or shortcomings of other heights, please feel free to start a thread on that specific topic. I will gladly read what you and others write on the subject. But this thread is focused on 3" long or short arm kits or collections of commercially available components, what to look for, what to avoid, and what is needed to do it right, with zero homemade or custom made parts.
So, why are you asking why I asked a question? I asked it because I need an answer to that question. No subterfuge or agenda. I simply wish to know which 3" lift kits are considered to be the best and why. Specifically why, too. I was told by a local moron that I should get OME shocks because they are yellow, which would look killer with my green jeep. Please, I know that OME shocks are what I would like to have, but for reasons centering on ride and durability, not cool colors! HAHAHA!!!
There also exists here a crowd who like to mix and match parts. Why? Again, specifically why certain mixes? These are really well reasoned purchases. I want to hear that reasoning.
I would like a 3" long arm setup but do not want to make my own. I can get the stuff welded on by a real old school master welder here in town. But I want to buy stuff that has already been tested and proven to be reliable and SAFE. This is my DD that sees about 1,000 miles per WEEK during the months of the school year, AND it gets wheeled a fairly good bit on weekends and all summer. So you can probably see why I need components that will make it ride great while still wheeling well in most environments.
Bigger and higher are not always the best choices, nor are they always possible. So I want my hard limitation of 33s on a 3" lift to be good for the very long haul, like ten years of excellent service.
I did not think I would have to go into so much detail to explain this, honestly. I thought all the guys running 3" lifts of various types would chime in with personal experiences...
Keep the info coming, folks! THANKS!
|07-07-2013 10:44 AM|
When it comes to bolt on short arms, the less lift the better.
I can give input on my build, but just want clarification first, before I start a post.
|07-07-2013 10:41 AM|
This is to help the community learn about all the stuff available and what is good vs. what is junk.
3" is the basic average of lifts. This is for a jeep used as an actual vehicle on the road every day, that can be capably wheeled.
Not interested in homemade stuff at all. Sorry I did not specify that. I did not suspect a bunch of welders would torpedo my attempt to learn what is involved in piecing together a quality lift kit and what to look out for when buying components.
I am looking for information on what is popular and WHY that gear is popular. For instance, I just learned that the eyes and bushings of some Rancho steering struts are not very solid looking when compared side-by-side with others, that the eye is rolled sheet rather than tube stock and that you can see clearly where the sheet ends join (or don't join, more accurately) due to the minimal welds that allow you to see all this; what came on my used jeep is not confidence inspiring. (You can see daylight through the rolled ends of the eye on mine, and the eyes and bushings are a LOT smaller than the ones on my friend's jeep.
So i want to compile a list of exactly which components are needed and why (SYE vs TC drop, for example), and a list of what are considered to be good or bad components, with reasons based on firsthand, personal evidence through ownership, and not just hearsay or rumors.
I would like to purchase a high quality, very complete 3" lift one day. This thread could help me as well as many other newbs learn what to look for when attempting to see through all the advertising hype.
Thanks, folks. Keep posting... :-)
|07-06-2013 08:16 PM|
|TJZ||Pretty sure my Fantasy Jeep Build would be everything I want on a New Jeep all on someone else's Credit Card. Just Sayin.|
|07-06-2013 08:15 PM|
|solman||My guess is the OP is looking to put a 3" lift on his and wants to know what the best out there is.|
|07-06-2013 08:01 PM|
|NJO||WHy exactly does it have to be a 3" lift?|
|07-06-2013 05:10 PM|
|TJMichael||I love reading about all you guys that do all of your own work and even fabricate your own parts. I can do simple "bolt-on" type things, but I've never had the confidence to tackle a really complicated job myself. Keep on posting what you have done. Many of us have learned a lot about our Jeeps from your posts.|
|07-06-2013 04:50 PM|
Here is the start of my next lift kit
|07-06-2013 04:48 PM|
With an unlimited budget I would not be buying any bolt on kit. I would build my own.
I would buy a nice welder, tubing bender and notcher, plasma cutter, and lots of DOM and 1/4" plate steel.
|07-06-2013 04:23 PM|
Fantasy Jeep: Build Your Ideal 3" Lift
Okay, so everything is free for the asking in this thread.
Build up your ideal 3" lift. Long or short arm: does not matter.
Name every component by type, brand and model number, and give a reason for WHY you would prefer your choices, even if it is something silly like the way it looks. (I have actually met guys who run certain shocks and springs specifically because of colors or look. Idiots, in my book, but it was their jeep and their reasoning. So who am I to judge them?)
Again, please give reasons for why you would prefer one component over another. Bushings go bad on Brand X but not a problem with the one I like, or maybe these struts leak after only a certain amount of off road time. Stuff like that.
This can even include tires and rims. Everything in a suspension buildup. Be thorough!