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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-13-2013 08:17 AM
StanF
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverkillYJ View Post

X2. No way that track bar is doing anything. Remove it. Tighten sway bar. Check tie rod ends, hubs,steering box, alignment. If you are feeling crap through steering dampener it must be pretty bad and you shouldn't be on the highway.
x3

How many different ways can someone say this until it sinks in?
07-12-2013 09:24 PM
OverkillYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Like we have mentioned, the Track Bar isn't the cause of the death wobble, you have bigger issues at play. But what would we know, not like we have been messing with YJ suspension for years or anything...
X2. No way that track bar is doing anything. Remove it. Tighten sway bar. Check tie rod ends, hubs,steering box, alignment. If you are feeling crap through steering dampener it must be pretty bad and you shouldn't be on the highway.
07-12-2013 05:00 PM
Xpress Like we have mentioned, the Track Bar isn't the cause of the death wobble, you have bigger issues at play. But what would we know, not like we have been messing with YJ suspension for years or anything...
07-12-2013 04:11 PM
cwev222 Good news fellas, a new steering stabilizer lets me comfortably right up to 75. The old one had almost ZERO tension in the shock so the stabilizer was bad anyway. I can feel that there is still some shake, but I'm almost certain it is due to my beyond awful shocks and the loose track bar. So if you got the DW and need a quick fix until you can afford a suspension upgrade, check your stabilizer and grab a good OEM one and giver her a replacement to let you safely drive the interstate in the meantime.
Thanks again for all the help!!
07-04-2013 05:38 PM
Xpress Track Bars are not a necessary requirement for leaf sprung vehicles. The only reason you'll see them on some older model leaf sprung Ford trucks is because those are designed for towing and are MUCH larger in mass. A Track Bar up front actually improves the handling of the truck with large loads behind. Even then, you only see one in the front, not in the rear.

ALL a Track Bar does is locates the axle side to side. With leaf springs, the biggest side effect is that they cause the leaf springs to bind and the suspension to not do what it was designed to do. Other side effects also include broken Track Bar mounts and prematurely worn out bushings in the suspension and steering, I have seen other issues such as frame damage as well.

A Sway Bar on the other hand is definitely a must have for road driving. It keeps the front axle parallel to the body and improves steering response and road characteristics. Basically, you can drive it like a normal driver would, without having to exercise caution going around ANY corner at a reasonable speed, with the Sway Bar in place that is.

For those who want more flex out of the front end, just invest in a set of quick disconnects, or make your own. Just keep in mind the factory brake lines are only so long
07-02-2013 11:02 PM
POS YJ Those rigs also have race radios instead of CB's, suspension seats instead of stock seats, full harnesses instead of shoulder belts, and helmets instead of ball caps. And when they get death wobble they aren't going to add 2 more stabilizers to "fix" the problem!

They will find out what steering and suspension parts are worn out and fix them. Just like the OP should do. Keep posting, some day you will hit infinity!
07-02-2013 10:53 PM
OverkillYJ I know for a fact over 90% of modded yj's are running without track bars, which are not in all leaf spring vehicles and have no problems. Can't say the same about steering stabilizers though. In fact many expensive rigs haveexpensive dual stabilizer setups to match. It is not because they cheaped out on doing their steering correctly, it is because they accept the benefits and say they are worth the cost. Unless they are all just dumber them a genius like yourself.
07-02-2013 10:17 PM
POS YJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverkillYJ View Post
I will say again... You can run without a Sway Bar too. I drove 40 Miles on Saturday without mine. I still would not tell people to do it. If a deer runs out in front of someone without a sway bar that could be it for them. A Jeep is a big enough learning curve from people who drive cars. A stabilizer helps smooth out the driving. Anything beyond telling someone the trackbars are not needed could have serious repercussions for them. You dont know this person and neither do I. If it was one of my friends who come wheeling with me, we do whatever it takes to make the Jeep go down the road. We tell each other to do some crazy crap sometimes. Sometimes only partial brakes work on our way out of the woods, with busted UJoints and transmission mounts. I still would never tell anyone it is ok to do any of those things.
Well, this reminds me of why I don't spend much time on this forum. So you condone not using trac bars, but sway bars are a must? Are you some Jeep engineer? An engineer at all with any reasonable data to back your theory?
There are probably 4 threads a day started here asking about track bars and sway bars. Most people throw out an answer to help their post count and, hey, "I heard it on the internet. It must be true."
Just like a track bar, a steering stabilizer will just hide the true problem until your TRE snaps in a school zone and you run into a line of kids waiting for a bus!
Fix the REAL problem, then you can add a stabilizer if you want. You are still telling people to remove factory equipment, so you would be liable as well.

I have been told to do things several times that would have certainly ended in serious injury or death. But I haven't yet, because my head is not where some people have told me to put it.

Obligatory
07-02-2013 08:45 AM
OverkillYJ I have driven without shocks on my Jeep before. I understand perfectly well what they do, and understood it when I put in new upper mounts and welded in new lowers.

I just re read this thread again since it was started about a week ago at this point. Does the OP know how to check tie rod ends? He never posted anything saying they are good. I also see that he says it is like the inside of the F250 video. If that was my Jeep it would be parked until I fixed it. If it is that bad it might be the tie rod end that goes into the pitman arm, or maybe a destroyed UJoint in his steering shaft. If it is that bad it just comes down to grab every steering component and try like hell to shake it back and forth. See if anything is loose.

I will say again... You can run without a Sway Bar too. I drove 40 Miles on Saturday without mine. I still would not tell people to do it. If a deer runs out in front of someone without a sway bar that could be it for them. A Jeep is a big enough learning curve from people who drive cars. A stabilizer helps smooth out the driving. Anything beyond telling someone the trackbars are not needed could have serious repercussions for them. You dont know this person and neither do I. If it was one of my friends who come wheeling with me, we do whatever it takes to make the Jeep go down the road. We tell each other to do some crazy crap sometimes. Sometimes only partial brakes work on our way out of the woods, with busted UJoints and transmission mounts. I still would never tell anyone it is ok to do any of those things.
07-01-2013 10:51 PM
POS YJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverkillYJ View Post
Yeah, shocks don't absorb shock. Whoever named those things should be fired!
I would rather drive with no shocks, than no leaf springs. The springs absorb the shock, and the "shocks" help control the "spring" in the leaf.
Just as a steering stabilizer will compensate for loose parts in the steering. If your tie rod ends, spring bushings, wheel bearings and alignment are good, then you will not have death wobble.
I threw my track bars, sway bar and stabilizer away 10 years ago when I added a 4" lift and 33's. Now I'm running SOA (1.5"springs) on 39.5's and only have a wobble when there is a worn tie rod end or the toe is off. Toe becomes more critical with bigger tires if you plan on driving down the highway.



Edit...cwev222, fix your worn out steering parts and get an alignment. Then you can add the stabilizer if you think its needed. Next time you get the wobble, ditch the stabilizer and fix what is causing the problem, it won't be your stabilizer.
07-01-2013 08:54 PM
OverkillYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by old paul View Post

Sorry, but shocks do not absorb bumps in the road. That is what springs do.
Shocks dampen (hence the name) the ocillations inherent in spring's rebounding characteristics.
Yeah, shocks don't absorb shock. Whoever named those things should be fired!
07-01-2013 04:43 PM
old paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverkillYJ View Post
Steering stabilizer makes your steering more stable. Why is this so difficult to understand? Just like your shocks absorb bumps in the road
Sorry, but shocks do not absorb bumps in the road. That is what springs do.
Shocks dampen (hence the name) the ocillations inherent in spring's rebounding characteristics.
07-01-2013 02:36 PM
cwev222 Just ordered a new stabilizer today, $26. (aint bad, right?) My Specs are a '92 base everything is factory still, including the shocks which have GOT to be changed. The only thing not factory is the motor, but it is a rebuilt 2.5L out of another wrangler, approximately rebuilt 4 years ago. No lifts, no mechanical upgrades of any kind (yet). Rust I would say is probably the worst of the problems. Nothing visible, but I did have to have the rear brakes rebuilt a year ago and they were rusted out. Got some front brake rust and probably need cal replacement. Thanks again for the help guys.
06-27-2013 12:26 PM
OverkillYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Now imagine how great it would be to have electric power steering on our rigs
It would be nice to lose that damn power steering pump noise.
06-27-2013 11:45 AM
Xpress Now imagine how great it would be to have electric power steering on our rigs
06-27-2013 09:55 AM
OverkillYJ Steering stabilizer makes your steering more stable. Why is this so difficult to understand? Just like your shocks absorb bumps in the road, your steering stabilizer absorbs bumps from things hitting your front tires. Doesnt matter what type of suspension you have. I drive down the road with my knee when lighting cigarettes without worries. Maybe not recommended, but my Jeep steers like a car or truck. It is solid, nice and steady, no vibrations, and I attribute that to the big Old Man Emu stabilizer I put in there. Everything is tight, but the steering is like a damn go cart without the stabilizer. The wheel just goes back and forth too easy for me.

It also enhances your power steering by keeping the tires where you point them. I would hate to kit deep ruts or rocks on the trails without mine.

You will also notice broncos and some larger rigs have double stabilizer setups. Bigger tires handle better with bigger/double setups.

http://forums.off-road.com/jeep-shor...ilizer-do.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4NIYkJqB0
06-27-2013 08:35 AM
StanF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowrangler View Post
the first thing you do is inspect ALL front end parts and replace as neccessary FIRST.
^ this

IMO, a good steering stabilizer can MASK other issues in your steering system that you need to address.

Post back here what you find
06-26-2013 07:33 PM
Mowrangler The first DEATH WOBBLE i experienced was in a 2 wd 1974 F-150 I took it to the dealer and they told me this can happen with oversized tires.When I asked what I could do is to install a steering stabilizer shock. It fixed the problem, that was in 1978 since then I have run into this with 2 and 4 wheel drive vehicles and almost all the time addind a steering stabilizer or replacing the old one has done the trick.That being said the first thing you do is inspect ALL front end parts and replace as neccessary FIRST, then consider the steering stabilizer. Good Luck
06-26-2013 06:55 PM
OverkillYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
I can guarantee you 100% the TrackBar is MASKING the actual issue. The YJ has absolutely no need for the Track Bars, you likely have either a bad wheel balance issue, driveshaft imbalance, bad ball joints, or perhaps a bad bearing issue.

The only reason the Track Bars are in place on the YJ is to limit the suspension flex. But, because the YJ is made to leave the road, it doesn't need them. Nor is it made to tow or corner well.

Bump steer will also be worse with the Track Bar in place, because of the aforementioned issues. Ask anyone who has significant experience setting up YJ suspension and most will agree with absolute certainty that the Track Bar is an unnecessary safety component. They are purposely installed to limit flex, and to, essentially, "shut the hippies up" that complained of a rollover "issue" with the CJ.

Cut it out, and throw it away, then try to fix the actual issue rather than putting a bandaid over it. I drove mine for years without my Track Bars in place, so have all of my fellow YJ owners, and pretty much all of the San Diego area. If your driveline components are in good shape (from what you are saying, it sounds like you need some real TLC) then you will never get Death Wobble.

Get the front end up in the air after you remove the Track Bar and start looking around for loose nuts and bolts, bad ball joints, bad bearings, so on and so forth. Something in the driveline is worn out.

Coil Springs are an entirely different topic than Leaf Springs though.
X2

Possibly a bad hub. Trackbar is a waste of metal and is NOT the cause if the issue. Ne steering dampener isnt a bad idea either, but that will only help mask it.

Do you know if the 4x4 work? Does it engage and disengage?
06-26-2013 06:48 PM
Jdrice82 I know it's not a jeep but I had an F-350 with the death wobble. They replaced the steering stabilizer with an updated one and chanced the caster/camber. Never had the issue again.
06-26-2013 06:41 PM
173ABN VN I live on a gravel road and my first jeep got a real bad wobble when I got on the hwy.Turns out it had massive amts. of dust in the back of the front wheels that threw the aligmnt. out....russ
06-26-2013 06:03 PM
wasomma Well what are the specs for your jeep, specifically what is the tire/wheel size, year, engine, condition of rust, previous serious damage, any aftermarket lift installed?

And yes take the track bar off, but keep an eye on any shifting components. If you see something move that looks like it should be bolted down the track bar may have actually been keeping something in place that needed to be in place. If everything is in working order the trackbar must go
06-26-2013 05:15 PM
cwev222 Thanks so much guys, all helpful advice. I'll definitely get rid of the track bar because it really does seem like more of a pest than an actual functioning part. I'll get it up somewhere and get somebody to help me test and look at everything. I just went out in my home garage with 2 regular tire jacks and tried to see what I could, which isn't much.
06-26-2013 04:58 PM
Xpress I can guarantee you 100% the TrackBar is MASKING the actual issue. The YJ has absolutely no need for the Track Bars, you likely have either a bad wheel balance issue, driveshaft imbalance, bad ball joints, or perhaps a bad bearing issue.

The only reason the Track Bars are in place on the YJ is to limit the suspension flex. But, because the YJ is made to leave the road, it doesn't need them. Nor is it made to tow or corner well.

Bump steer will also be worse with the Track Bar in place, because of the aforementioned issues. Ask anyone who has significant experience setting up YJ suspension and most will agree with absolute certainty that the Track Bar is an unnecessary safety component. They are purposely installed to limit flex, and to, essentially, "shut the hippies up" that complained of a rollover "issue" with the CJ.

Cut it out, and throw it away, then try to fix the actual issue rather than putting a bandaid over it. I drove mine for years without my Track Bars in place, so have all of my fellow YJ owners, and pretty much all of the San Diego area. If your driveline components are in good shape (from what you are saying, it sounds like you need some real TLC) then you will never get Death Wobble.

Get the front end up in the air after you remove the Track Bar and start looking around for loose nuts and bolts, bad ball joints, bad bearings, so on and so forth. Something in the driveline is worn out.

Coil Springs are an entirely different topic than Leaf Springs though.
06-26-2013 04:46 PM
Jeeptrd I had terrible bump steer in mine and a new stabilizer really helped. But if you do you might also want to do tie rod ends too since it can be a pita to separate the tapered bolt out to do it and if you decide to ever change your passenger side tie rod end you need to take the stabilizer back off. It will probably help tighten up your steering a lot and after an alignment it should be awesome!
06-26-2013 04:45 PM
connochr
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasomma View Post
Well you probably don't get actual death wobble the way TJ/JKs do (has to do with the kind of axles the YJs have, solid vs semi-solid axles). If you do then something serious is going on with your suspension and that is a longer and more technical conversation. Trackbars don't do anything for jeeps so if it falling off you might as well just remove it.

Is the wobble severe vibration or are your tires actually skipping on the road?

Death Wobble - YouTube
Ford F-250 "Death Wobble" - YouTube

Holy Cow.. I'm new to the Jeep world and didn't know what this "death wobble" was all about since I have driven cars all my life. Now I can see why its called DEATH wobble. Looks like you have no steering when it happens. Scary stuff if you get it coming around turn. Thats when you go into the woods when you didn't want to and meet a large oak tree
06-26-2013 04:30 PM
cwev222 I know for a fact I have very bad worn shocks and also have bump steering issues. The more I talk about it the more I feel like its a combo of the shocks and stabilizer lol
06-26-2013 04:29 PM
cwev222 Unfortunately, yes, I'm getting the full on, shaking, wobbling and obviously I haven't seen it from the outside but when it happens I imagine it looks just like that, and it definitely resembles the F-250 video from the inside.
06-26-2013 03:55 PM
wasomma Well you probably don't get actual death wobble the way TJ/JKs do (has to do with the kind of axles the YJs have, solid vs semi-solid axles). If you do then something serious is going on with your suspension and that is a longer and more technical conversation. Trackbars don't do anything for jeeps so if it falling off you might as well just remove it.

Is the wobble severe vibration or are your tires actually skipping on the road?

Death Wobble - YouTube
Ford F-250 "Death Wobble" - YouTube
06-26-2013 03:55 PM
cwev222 Thanks. That's what I figure I'm going to have to do is just lock it on there. I think a previous owner may have cross threaded or something, so I'll just take the thread out and see why the nut won't stay tight. Also figured I'd replace the steering stabilizer, just for control if nothing else.
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