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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-26-2014 10:32 AM
Durwood Jim & Buckshot, I just completed this repair on my 2008 Wrangler X. Search for threat "2008 Clutch Replacement Job" to read what I learned. I also posted on this thread before.

Jim, assuming you are only having issues with 1st gear then you're probably safe with the part # specified in the TSB and only having those components replaced.

Buckshot, my total cost was approx. $800 total but I did most of the work myself. Jeep dealer quoted me $1700 over a year ago and I didn't want to spend it. It took forever to get the gear kit but finally sourced it on a mopar parts site for $230 or so. I also replaced the clutch ($170) since the Jeep was new to me with 75,000 miles and I had no idea when/if it was ever done. I took the tranny to a shop to install the kit and that was $500 for their labor.

Pretty big job (for me anyway) since I like to tinker but am by no means a Mr. Goodwrench.

It's 100% fixed now though and I am REALLY happy I don't have to worry about pulling out in traffic and getting t-boned. Good luck!

Durwood
07-23-2014 01:09 PM
Buckshot00 I kinda needed to bump this thread a little. My 09 JKU started doing this about a year and a half or so ago, at about 75K miles (got 98K now). It only did it like 5 times until a few months ago, and it's almost been like once/week since then. Obviously, the warranty is up - but what's the cost of the fix? Has Chrysler addressed this issue any more? I just have a feeling that I'm gonna be pulling out in heavy traffic one day and cause someone to get hurt.

I'm surprised no one has had an accident from it yet (or one that we've heard of). You'd think that since the GM recall and how congress has made a public execution out of them - Chrysler would be petrified to follow suit.
04-15-2014 12:58 PM
jimcob Thank you for sharing this info.
Does that means that this is the resolution of fixing the 1st gear jog?

Thank you,

Jim


Quote:
Originally Posted by neddyb View Post
04-15-2014 11:46 AM
jimcob Hello, I just bought a 2008 JK CRD with 60,000 miles on the clock. Some times it jog the 1st gear. Spoke with the dealership and they had no idea. Is there any official Chrysler/Jeep action on that issue?

Thank you.
Jim
08-22-2013 01:44 PM
jwill
Update on work

I had to take Jeep back second time. Now the jog issue is affecting reverse and new engine noise when in neutral and clutch disengaged. The dealership claims noise from clutch and not covered by warranty from last work done(tsb repair and piston rework). Also claim having jog issue in reverse is not fixable according to Chrysler. Never go to champion dealership in Indianapolis, they have been screwing me over since I bought the Jeep new. Took it in at 547 miles for simple fix, and they washed it with window down. To cover their tracks they vacuumed the seat an ripped the fabric, which is how I noticed the water damage. Ever since never trusted them, sorry about the rant btw.

Was informed by Chrysler my warranty void as of 1/17/2013 since I missed the 5 year maintenance. Originally took Jeep into dealership 7/2010 for the jog issue.now the dealership claims I have to go thru Chrysler to get the money back the dealership charged me for the tsb fix.
08-16-2013 11:36 AM
jmb6420 jwill: Are you the original owner of your 2008 Sahara? If so, you should have a lifetime powertrain warranty.

I am the second owner of my 2008 jeep, but purchased the lifetime powertrain service contract shortly after I purchased the jeep. It was 3 1/2 years old and had about 32K miles on it when I purchased the contract. (the contract cost a lot less than the tranny rebuild)

I can't see any how the JOG issue would cause any engine problems, so the two are unrelated IMO.

Good luck, keep us informed.
08-16-2013 08:52 AM
jwill Sorry for the delay in updating my information. Just spoke to the dealership today, had trouble with my cell all week. The engine failure was the #1 piston ring and rod assembly. Could this be caused by the issue described in tsb 21-001-10. Also any advice on how to handle the denied power train warranty would be much appreciated. Should I talk to the dealership or go straight to jeep customer care?

Also thanks for the reply jmb6420. And thanks for all the diagnostic and technical information USAntigoon, I hope retirement life is treating you well.
08-13-2013 06:46 PM
jmb6420 My powertrain coverage includes this: copied it from the contract.




Quote:
Covered Engine Components
  • Cylinder Block and all Internal Parts
  • Cylinder Head Assemblies
  • Timing Case, Chain, Gears, Belts and Sprockets
  • Harmonic Balancer
  • Oil Pump
  • Water Pump and Housing
  • Intake and Exhaust Manifolds
  • Flywheel with Starter Ring Gear
  • Core Plugs
  • Valve Covers
  • Oil Pan
  • Turbocharger Housing and all Internal Parts
  • Turbocharger Wastegate Actuator
  • Supercharger
  • Fuel Injection Pump and Injectors (Excluding clogged Injectors)
  • Seals and Gaskets for Listed Components
Covered Transmission Components
  • Transmission Case and all Internal Parts
  • Torque Converter
  • Flex Plate / Drive Plate
  • Transmission Range Switch
  • Transmission Control Module
  • Bell Housing
  • Oil Pan
  • Seals and Gaskets for Listed Components
  • Manual Transmission Clutch Parts are not covered at anytime
The piston is an 'internal part of the cylinder block'
the synchronizers are an 'internal part of the transmission case'

Why wouldn't they be covered?

I am assuming of course that you have the same or similar warranty that I do.
08-13-2013 07:58 AM
jwill
getting tsb work now, can this cause other problems if left unfixed?

I've had similar issues found throughout this post. I have a 2008 jeep wrangler sahara 2d with the jog issue. After a week the dealership claimed there was no problem with the transmission the first time I took my jeep in for this issue. This time they claimed they got the tsb after I had brought my jeep in the first time, but claim I had around 40k miles so the work was not covered then or now by the warranty or powertrain (can't confirm date/mileage since paperwork is in my jeep atm). By reading usantigoon's posts i knew my issue wasn't a cold condition issue that gets fixed if you shift slower until the vehicle warms up. Not sure I have much confidence in the tsb fix just yet, but keeping my fingers crossed. Will keep you posted on the work as I have more information.

My main concern and my original reason for getting service done this time around was a power issue, which i had originally thought was a timing issue which turns out to be a broken piston mount (not sure of exact name of the part, kinda dazed when mechanic said he might have to replace the entire engine before he opened it up to see how extensive the damage was). Was wondering if 3 years of letting a jog problem go (since they told me it wasn't a problem) could cause the piston mount to break. Also wondering why the broken piston and the tsb repair is not covered by the powertrain warranty. Can anyone confirm that the 1-2 synchronizer repair is in fact covered/not covered for sure. Will update with more specific information after I talk to the mechanic today.
06-18-2013 12:53 PM
Beastmaster I just got back from the dealer after having this issue fixed.

I want to start out by saying that I have no idea what it would have cost because I got an extended warranty when I bought my rig used a couple of years ago.

Everyone has reported their Jeep popping out of gear as the weather got colder, in my case the opposite has happened. Whether it's just that the gears have gotten more worn or if the heat made everything more flexible, I don't know but as the day time temps hare have been over 100 degrees for the last few weeks, my rig would pop out of 1st up to 6 times a day.

The first time I took it in, last month, they couldn't duplicate it. As it started happening more often, I took it in again and they said they would finally fix it. They dropped the transmission and completely replaced first gear and the 1-2 synchronizer assembly in accordance with the tech bulletin. They said the gears were definitely worn.

It felt good on the drive home, we'll have to see how it is in the long run.
05-10-2013 01:06 PM
live_slow I have never had a manual transmission car that didn't do this at least once. Even my S2K did it twice (once it was 8 degrees and the car was cold, once it was all my fault).

However, to the few people who observe it regularly on their Jeep, I agree that if you're sure it's not operator headspace and timing, then it's an anomaly.
05-10-2013 11:48 AM
Beastmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeplw View Post
USAntigoon,
Read the dialogue in this thread..you seem to know technical aspects of this issue and the Jeep manual trans components....in your opinion, could this issue cause the clutch to fail? You mention 1/2 shift fork, dogteeth, etc. Would this issue cause 'teeth' to be broken, i.e. the 'thunck' that drivers mention throughout, could it be 'teeth' being broken off? I'm assuming this may be some type of gear wheel with cog teeth, is this the flywheel (Jeep part CR466102AA)? The fork, could this be a Jeep part described as a fork assy (fork assembly, Jeep Part # CR68089073AA)? Could this 'popping out of 1st gear' issue have caused problems sever enough that numerous clutch parts need replacement, i.e. besides fork assy above, the clutch kit, two bearing, and flywheel?
Your input would be greatly appreciated.
I see that USAntogoon hasn't posted on the forum for over 2 years so he may not chime in with a reply.

I don't have near the technical knowledge of this issue that it sounds like he has, but I think it would take something more severe than popping out of gear to break the splines. I could see extra wear happening but not complete breakage.

Welcome to the forum by the way.
05-09-2013 08:31 PM
jeeplw
Inquiry

USAntigoon,
Read the dialogue in this thread..you seem to know technical aspects of this issue and the Jeep manual trans components....in your opinion, could this issue cause the clutch to fail? You mention 1/2 shift fork, dogteeth, etc. Would this issue cause 'teeth' to be broken, i.e. the 'thunck' that drivers mention throughout, could it be 'teeth' being broken off? I'm assuming this may be some type of gear wheel with cog teeth, is this the flywheel (Jeep part CR466102AA)? The fork, could this be a Jeep part described as a fork assy (fork assembly, Jeep Part # CR68089073AA)? Could this 'popping out of 1st gear' issue have caused problems sever enough that numerous clutch parts need replacement, i.e. besides fork assy above, the clutch kit, two bearing, and flywheel?
Your input would be greatly appreciated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by USAntigoon View Post
I responded in another forum to a similar issue as follows
The 1/2 synchronizer sleeve (in which the 1/2 shift fork rides) moves towards first gear sliding over the synchro hub starting the synchronization process (synchro ring will be indexed and the cone will start picking up the cone of the first gear) Once the speed is equalized the coupler teeth will engage.. These teeth flanks have a back taper to assure positive engagement lock whilst transferring torque..
JOG (jump out of gear) can be created with following main conditions...
1) not enough spline (dogteeth) back-taper on synchro ring and coupler..(Manufacturing quality)
2) not FULL engagement during the shift cycle.. (shifting too fast or shifter boot interference)
3) the first gear has a triple cone synchronizer system and the floating synchro ring might drag too much (particularly in very cold weather..)
4) shift rail detent ball springs too weak (broken or worn out)

Everything has to be in balance to avoid "hard" shifts, (you still want to shift smoothly from 1-2 etc..) on one hand and to avoid JOG on the other hand..

The negative back taper is designed to create a lock whilst torque is transferred, as soon as you coast (reduce torque) the lock becomes less and with a bump it might do a JOG .

Just do a slow shift (be sure it is fully engaged) into first and get moving, keep a constant acceleration and maintain a slight load on the shifter towards second gear.. You will feel the "bite" from the back taper...if something is not right you will detect an easy slide out..

Bring the acceleration to almost coast and try this again..with a slight force the shifter can be moved out of first..

Just trying to give some background music..
02-28-2013 10:20 PM
Durwood Updated info on my quest to find another mechanic to do the work described in the TSB (i.e., replace 1st gear & 1-2 synchro assembly).

On my 3rd non-dealer shop to look at it today. They said they simply cannot get parts anywhere. Everything related to this tranny is on backorder from Chrysler. He interpreted this to mean they know they have a problem with it and aren't making new parts until they come up with a better answer.

They even tried calling around to their supplier that does remanufactured trannies and those are even unavailable right now.

Don't know if that's all legit but it seems to make sense. Just find it hard to believe that the parts are now seemingly impossible to come by.

So it's either A) wait until parts come available or B) shell out $1700 to have the dealer do it (assuming they still have parts in stock when no one else does?????).

What a bummer.
02-21-2013 02:27 PM
Beastmaster Funny, I have the same problem. My '07 JKU started doing this about 6-months ago and it never occured to me to search my own forum.

Good info here


Edit: Not sure if it is somewhere in this thread (couldn't find it), but I was able to find the actual service bulletin on the interwebs: https://cda.extra.chrysler.com/icon/...s/2100110A.pdf
02-21-2013 02:10 PM
Flyingliz
Inner boot

So my Jeep (2010 2dr) kicked me out of first violently a couple times and I was a little nervous but figured the extreme cold was at fault...except both the Jeep and I have seen worse cold and this has never been an issue...anywho, problem progressed to popping out of third and fifth as well. Decided it was time to look into it because I ended up in an accident. Google lead me to this thread. After a good read I headed into my dealer to have it looked at. He knew about the first gear problem (had fixed many) and had heard of boot problems but never seen one until I came in. Pulled off the boot and realized the inner boot was floating free and crooked. No longer covered under warranty (75000km on the Jeep) but no charge if I wanted to try to put her back together myself. Seems the last dealer may have caused this problem while checking out a clutch issue for me since the top boot was barely being held on when we pulled it off (2/3 clips broken). Drives like before now with no issues. Just gotta find a way to get the top boot to stay down since I'm cheap and don't want to pay the $50 for a new one. Thinking double sided tape lol. All this to say putting the inner boot back in place seems to have solved the problem and sometimes you will run into someone who knows what they're talking about!
02-19-2013 09:23 PM
DavoArts Mine was around $1200-1400 (warranty covered) but they did have to order the parts which took a week and the only guy at the dealership that was qualified to do the tranny work on the JK was out sick so I waited a few more days beyond that.
02-19-2013 07:46 PM
Durwood Update: I've taken it to two shops here in town trying to find somebody that would do the TSB repair work for less than $1,700 that the dealer quoted. At both places their "expert" that normally does Jeep work has said he's quit working on them because parts are too hard to come by. I thought it sounded sketchy the first time I heard that excuse but to get it from another shop one week later is interesting.

Anyone else hearing that? I live in San Angelo, TX. Not a huge town (about 100,000) but not a one-horse town either.
02-17-2013 06:48 PM
eaglejeep
Update

Yes, it is a brand new vehicle. The dealership wants to tear down the transmission. I suggested the"park in reverse in cold weather"trick and it worked.
02-16-2013 08:56 AM
UndauntedFlyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglejeep View Post
My very close friend recently bought a 2-door 6 speed hardtop. She is a very experienced driver and also drives a Harley with a very hot engine. After numerous troubles with recent used vehicles, she sprung for the new Jeep. The first time she stopped at a light, it made a raspy noise - bad throwout bearing; not a good start. Even with this setback, she loved the engine and transmission. Much more refined than her last Jeep. No signs of any tranny problems frequently mentioned online. After a mild fall,cold weather set in, The transmission started popping out of second gear on a cold start. The dealership service department pulled the usual "you are a woman and can't drive stick", "We can't replicate the problem, so it doesn't exist"; and the best; No one at Chrysler has ever heard of this problem." After she insisted that the service manager drive another manual with her on a cold morning, they were converted. It popped out of second on his first shift. The fix was to replace the inner boot with a more flexible unit and install a stiffer spring. The result was a dramatic loss of shifting quality and excessive force to engage the gears. A second tinkering made matters worse. Now it pops out of 2nd 4th and 6th gears and won't stay in 6th at all. Now they are talking about tearing down the transmission. After all of these years, Chrysler should retire this troublesome transmission; maybe something from the Fiat parts bin. Obviously, spending $35,000 for this vehicle was a mistake. She has decided to try to trade it for an automatic model or go for the Lemon Law. By the way, this is a wonderful small town dealership. My 17 year old vehicle, bought new from them has over 250,000 miles with no major repairs and my 33 year old AMC Eagle runs like new. I'm going to suggest that she try leaving it in second at night until the next fix.
If you bought this new, or it's still in warrantee, demand a new transmission. Ihis is a safety issue. I demanded a new transmission, and got one. No problems with the new one. Jeep knows of these problems.

J E E P: Junk, Each & Every Part.
02-15-2013 05:28 AM
kjeeper10 I make sure it's in gear and most of the time my hand stays on the shifter.
Don't know if this makes the difference but I have never had it happen?
02-15-2013 12:02 AM
rics1997 It seems this thread reappears every winter. Makes one think it is a cold weather issue. Not that it doesn't happen in warmer weather but it does seem to be seen more during January and February more then any other time of the year. Same 6 speed used for 3.8 and 3.6 engines. Seems to be showing up in all of them. Not sure they really know what it is causing the issue.
02-14-2013 11:56 PM
eaglejeep
2, 4, and 6 speed JOG

My very close friend recently bought a 2-door 6 speed hardtop. She is a very experienced driver and also drives a Harley with a very hot engine. After numerous troubles with recent used vehicles, she sprung for the new Jeep. The first time she stopped at a light, it made a raspy noise - bad throwout bearing; not a good start. Even with this setback, she loved the engine and transmission. Much more refined than her last Jeep. No signs of any tranny problems frequently mentioned online. After a mild fall,cold weather set in, The transmission started popping out of second gear on a cold start. The dealership service department pulled the usual "you are a woman and can't drive stick", "We can't replicate the problem, so it doesn't exist"; and the best; No one at Chrysler has ever heard of this problem." After she insisted that the service manager drive another manual with her on a cold morning, they were converted. It popped out of second on his first shift. The fix was to replace the inner boot with a more flexible unit and install a stiffer spring. The result was a dramatic loss of shifting quality and excessive force to engage the gears. A second tinkering made matters worse. Now it pops out of 2nd 4th and 6th gears and won't stay in 6th at all. Now they are talking about tearing down the transmission. After all of these years, Chrysler should retire this troublesome transmission; maybe something from the Fiat parts bin. Obviously, spending $35,000 for this vehicle was a mistake. She has decided to try to trade it for an automatic model or go for the Lemon Law. By the way, this is a wonderful small town dealership. My 17 year old vehicle, bought new from them has over 250,000 miles with no major repairs and my 33 year old AMC Eagle runs like new. I'm going to suggest that she try leaving it in second at night until the next fix.
02-10-2013 10:21 AM
Durwood Yes, that would be awesome. However, there is no recall and it's outside of the original warranty. Lifetime powertrain warranty does not transfer beyond the original owner. So I will have to pay if I want it fixed.
02-08-2013 11:11 PM
UndauntedFlyer No one should have to pay anything because the transmission problem is a manufacturing defect.
02-07-2013 11:36 PM
Durwood What have people been paying for the TSB fix (1st gear & synchro assembly)? I saw one post on page 13 or so that said $1,200. Is that about right? My dealer in town just quoted me $1,700 and it sounded like highway robbery to me. Then again, he also quoted me $140 for a new gas cap so I guess it's safe to assume they think I was born yesterday?
01-14-2013 04:49 PM
DavoArts Update on mine: they got the tranny torn down and will be performing the TSB repair which my extended warranty will end up covering. They have to order the parts and I might be jeepless for another week, but I am really impressed with them keeping me updated so far and if this issue gets knocked out it will be worth the wait.
01-08-2013 06:27 PM
jmb6420
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavoArts View Post
NW OKC, forgot I didn't answer that. I just approved the teardown this morning. We'll see what happens. He said that they will tear it down and have the warranty guy come take a look at the tranny and the jeep to make sure it hasn't been heavily modified (it's not) or abused (not that either).
Ok, I was going to tell you which dealer I went to here in Tulsa. Keep us posted on the results. I never went in and looked at mine while tore down, but I would have to believe if it is the synchro's, it will be obvious once they get the tranny tore down.
01-08-2013 10:08 AM
DavoArts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmb6420 View Post
Where in Oklahoma are you?
NW OKC, forgot I didn't answer that. I just approved the teardown this morning. We'll see what happens. He said that they will tear it down and have the warranty guy come take a look at the tranny and the jeep to make sure it hasn't been heavily modified (it's not) or abused (not that either).
01-07-2013 08:18 PM
DavoArts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmb6420 View Post
This doesn't make sense to me??? If the tranny is acting up and is under warranty, how can they even mention the teardown fee? It is up to them to diagnose and fix it. I had to leave mine with the dealer for a couple of weeks so they could duplicate the problem. Once it popped out on the service manager he called and told me it would be fixed. Tear down, evaluate, rebuild or replace.

Where in Oklahoma are you?
I'll have to ask for clarification, I can only assume that they didn't duplicate the problem but will do a tear down to diagnose anyways. My question is, if they tear the tranny down will the synchro issue be visible? I have an extended warranty and I'm at 38k miles, so I assume that the threat of a tear down labor fee is just the warranty company trying to see if I'm committed to seeing this through or trying to scare me away from following through so they save money. The warranty I have pays full retail labor and parts, so I know the dealer will do the work if it needs to be done. The service manager has been helpful so far, I just wanted to make sure I'm prepared for any surprises...

To add, I ended up on lemonlaw website while searching this issue and they have an article about this and I quoted the following:

"The good news is that our ASE-certified expert team has been thoroughly researching this issue and if you have been back in the shop repeated times to address the matter, we can help. Please call us at 1-800 LEMON LAW (1-800-536-6652) or drop us an e-mail and we will contact you to discuss your situation."

Anyone followed through with this that had this issue?
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