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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-02-2010 03:49 PM
G54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgahan View Post
I plan on keeping the 33'' on it and not going higher, it is my daily driver and i want to be able to go 80 on the highway if i choose. I do moderate off roading, i live by the Pismo dunes in CA, with regular camping/hunting trips in the hills and mountains, and im about 6 hours from the Rubicon trail so i plan to visit that as well. So i want to build a versatile Wrangler.
Again its a 2004 X 5 speed manual 4''pro comp lift with 33'' pro comp tires.

1) I know I need to re-gear for sure. I have given thought into adding a locker as well, but at that point shouldn't i just buy a full new axle like the "Dana Model 44 Rear Axle Assembly by G2" that comes with...
* 1997-06 TJ Wrangler
* Detroit locker
* G2 30 spline axle shafts
* G2 4.56 gears
$2,245 + labor

2) How much of a gain is it from a D35 to a D44?
3) Is it fine to run D30 in front and D44 in rear?
4) What gears should i run? Ive heard everything from 4.10, 4.11, 4.56, and 4.88.
5) what exactly is the difference between 30 and 33 spline axle shafts?
why would the "Dana Model 44 Rear Axle Assembly by G2" with 33 spline axle shafts with 4.10 gears be more expensive?

Thanks to everyone for help im new to this and want to build it right the first time around and have no regrets.
I'll try to answer what I can the best I know how:

1) I agree buying a new axle and replacing the D35 with a D44 would be a good idea. I'd suggest you see if you can get it with a selectable locker instead of the Detroit though - like an ARB. It would be a little pricier but I think you'd be happier if you could disengage it when it's not needed. Remember you still have to re-gear the front D30 the same as the rear. Adding a locker or Limited Slip Diff (LSD) would be up to you.

2) The D35 is a pretty weak axle. It is probably more likely break with 33s, especially if locked, and if you do anything more than mild to moderate offroading than the D44. That's not to say the 44 can't be broken though.

3)Yes as long as they are geared the same.

4) With a 5 speed 6cyl I would go with 4.56

5) The higher the spline count the stronger the shaft. I think the increase cost is due to the higher spline not the lower gear ratio.
06-02-2010 03:05 PM
Mgahan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ13 View Post
I just need some extra nuts when towing my boat. My wrangler is manual tran. Will this superchip help??
What kind of boat are you towing? how heavy? i have a 10 foot wave-runner and wondering how well the jeep will tow it
06-02-2010 02:52 PM
Mgahan
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgus View Post
I read through this thread and didn't notice anyone mention it, but there is something else you may want to consider. If you do decide to get this Jeep, and you go for a re-gear job - you may want to think about adding some kind of traction aid to the axles at the same time. It will cost more up front, but if you decided to add a locker later after the re-gear it will cost you even more for labor then. To give you an idea, I'm re-gearing to 4.10 and having Detroit Tru-Trac limited slips added to both axles and my quote was around $2400 out the door. However I have a D44 rear so you may want just a front locker or LSD unless you upgrade your axle. Just another thing to think about.

And welcome to WF!
I plan on keeping the 33'' on it and not going higher, it is my daily driver and i want to be able to go 80 on the highway if i choose. I do moderate off roading, i live by the Pismo dunes in CA, with regular camping/hunting trips in the hills and mountains, and im about 6 hours from the Rubicon trail so i plan to visit that as well. So i want to build a versatile Wrangler.
Again its a 2004 X 5 speed manual 4''pro comp lift with 33'' pro comp tires.

1) I know I need to re-gear for sure. I have given thought into adding a locker as well, but at that point shouldn't i just buy a full new axle like the "Dana Model 44 Rear Axle Assembly by G2" that comes with...
* 1997-06 TJ Wrangler
* Detroit locker
* G2 30 spline axle shafts
* G2 4.56 gears
$2,245 + labor

2) How much of a gain is it from a D35 to a D44?
3) Is it fine to run D30 in front and D44 in rear?
4) What gears should i run? Ive heard everything from 4.10, 4.11, 4.56, and 4.88.
5) what exactly is the difference between 30 and 33 spline axle shafts?
why would the "Dana Model 44 Rear Axle Assembly by G2" with 33 spline axle shafts with 4.10 gears be more expensive?

Thanks to everyone for help im new to this and want to build it right the first time around and have no regrets.
06-02-2010 01:51 PM
G54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgahan View Post
So I have been in the market for a Wrangler for a few months now. I found a 2004 Willy edition 4.0L with 4'' pro comp lift and 33'' pro comp tires with 8,800 miles, practically brand new. ...[snip]
I read through this thread and didn't notice anyone mention it, but there is something else you may want to consider. If you do decide to get this Jeep, and you go for a re-gear job - you may want to think about adding some kind of traction aid to the axles at the same time. It will cost more up front, but if you decided to add a locker later after the re-gear it will cost you even more for labor then. To give you an idea, I'm re-gearing to 4.10 and having Detroit Tru-Trac limited slips added to both axles and my quote was around $2400 out the door. However I have a D44 rear so you may want just a front locker or LSD unless you upgrade your axle. Just another thing to think about.

And welcome to WF!
06-02-2010 01:11 PM
Russ13 cool, thanks again
06-02-2010 12:07 PM
GroundHawg Towing I don't know. That's a different animal than street cruising or offroad. I've never towed with a chipped Jeep before.

I'll take an educated guess and say a chip won't cut it. It's one thing pushing big tires, it's another pushing big tires...with a trailer. I could be wrong though, but that's my guess. Gears might be the best for that.

The high octane programs are great in TJ's. You guys are correct however in saying the JK 3.8 does better than the 4.0 when responding to that chip. It's true. I wouldn't say TJ's don't benefit though. I'd chip a TJ without second thought for more streetability.

Towing though I'm not sure.
06-02-2010 11:32 AM
Russ13 That's what I have read so far today GMINTON...
06-02-2010 11:31 AM
AfterMath From what I've read from other people, the superchips help newer JK's tremendously.

On TJ's it only really helps throttle response, and thats about it. Everyone says they are a waste of money for TJ and older.
06-02-2010 11:24 AM
Russ13 I just need some extra nuts when towing my boat. My wrangler is manual tran. Will this superchip help??
06-02-2010 10:55 AM
GroundHawg Quadratech and 4wd are good places to start. I'd reccomend Superchips. They seem to be the best ones at it. $300-330 is a good price.

If you've got an automatic the power gains are pretty noticable. The speedometer gets corrected, as well as the trans shift points. Just those 2 things go a long way in gaining power back. You'll gain noticable acceleration due to engine timing changes. So manuals do benefit from programmers. The power with either transmission is noticeable, but it's no turbo or supercharger. It feels like you gain about 10hp or so. Mostly in the lower gears. I'll honestly say a chipped Jeep FEELS like it's got lower gears under 50mph. Acceleration is the most noticable improvement, so if your looking for top end speed and/or your final gear back...it might not do it.

Also keep in mind you'll never get that "stock feel" back. Nothing, not even gears correct the fact your pushing heavy tires and the aerodynamics of the empire state building.

I always reccomend chips. If it works, great...you just saved yourself over a grand. If it doesn't fullfill your power needs, regear...and being chipped will make your new gears run even better. You can't lose.
06-02-2010 08:36 AM
Russ13 GroundHawg = Were is a good source for a chip? Summit Racing?? Also how much improvement will I see if I install a chip??

4.0 I6
2001

Thanks bud
06-02-2010 07:49 AM
GroundHawg The gears you want is going to depend on how you drive and where you live. 4.11 is the cheap answer you'll get for 33's. If you live at high elevations or in a hilly area, go 4.88. Another thing is to ask yourself "is 33" the biggest I'm going to go?" because if you think you'll go to 35's, you'll have to gear again. Gears are so expensive, you'll only want to do it once.

Another thing to think about is the offroad activity. Rock Crawlers should be geared a tad lower to get a nice slow crawl ratio and a little more muscle with little to no gas pedal. Mudders should get a little higher for high rpm's at lower speeds.

For 33's I would suggest no lower than 4.11, no higher than 5.13. That leaves you with those ratios and 4.88.

4.11 really is the best ratio for daily driving, mudding, and most areas of the country. West Virginia, Colorado, etc I'd probably want 4.88. If you're climbing rocks with a trail rig that sees no street use, go with the 5.13. If you might get 35's go 4.88 with the 33's.

I'm in Ohio, flat. I've got 4.11 with 35's. It's fine. I drive in western PA frequently, it's hilly. The 4.11's are still ok, and I play in rocks in occasion. I'll chip my rig soon for a little power boost, but it's not bad. 4.11 with 33's will be great most places.
06-02-2010 12:12 AM
distortedtj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgahan View Post
Is $800-$1400 for each front and back or for both? And as i understand you can upgrade rear axle without doing front correct? D44 axle run about $2,300?
Both front and rear regear...and depends on what D44.. there are endless options and companies.
06-01-2010 11:56 PM
Mgahan
Quote:
Originally Posted by distortedtj View Post

If it is completely clean...original..(no engine replacement) or anything else. Yes it will sell at 16.5k. But it is altimately up to you and if it is what you want. Just gear replacement front and rear (((yes you have to do both))) will set you back $800 to $1400 depending on the installer. With 33's you should really look into upgrading from a D35 to a D44 or Super 35 kit from superior.

Is $800-$1400 for each front and back or for both? And as i understand you can upgrade rear axle without doing front correct? D44 axle run about $2,300?
06-01-2010 11:46 PM
Mgahan
Quote:
Originally Posted by distortedtj View Post
I6 = inline 6 cylinder engine "the 4.0L''
NV3550 = New Venture 3550 model....it is the name of the transmission.

The underpowerment is due to the tire size and stock gearing.

If it is completely clean...original..(no engine replacement) or anything else. Yes it will sell at 16.5k. But it is altimately up to you and if it is what you want. Just gear replacement front and rear (((yes you have to do both))) will set you back $800 to $1400 depending on the installer. With 33's you should really look into upgrading from a D35 to a D44 or Super 35 kit from superior.

Engine "mod's" on the 4.0L are not much of any improvement. A stroker motor or V8 is the only real motor mods for real gains.
Thanks for the help. Ive always wanted a jeep and just getting cold feet now that im about to buy, especially when everyone is telling me not to get a jeep. I know what they are made for and thats why i want it (adventure, camping, hunting). I just want to make sure im not getting ripped off and that the lag is normal for stock with 33'' and that it is fixable.
06-01-2010 11:38 PM
distortedtj I6 = inline 6 cylinder engine "the 4.0L''
NV3550 = New Venture 3550 model....it is the name of the transmission.

The underpowerment is due to the tire size and stock gearing.

If it is completely clean...original..(no engine replacement) or anything else. Yes it will sell at 16.5k. But it is altimately up to you and if it is what you want. Just gear replacement front and rear (((yes you have to do both))) will set you back $800 to $1400 depending on the installer. With 33's you should really look into upgrading from a D35 to a D44 or Super 35 kit from superior.

Engine "mod's" on the 4.0L are not much of any improvement. A stroker motor or V8 is the only real motor mods for real gains.
06-01-2010 11:32 PM
Mgahan [QUOTE=distortedtj;641438]The 2004, I6 manual trans is the NV3550.

New to this...what exactly does that mean?

And I understand its a brick and im not trying to fly down the highway at 80, but ive driven jeep before and this was by far the most underpowered. I just want to be able to cruise at 70 without it being floored.

I am in the debating process of buying it. It has low miles (8,600), lift, tires, winch, rear rack, and looks beautiful. But engine completely stock. A good foundation to build upon. I realize im going to be sinking money into the performance right off the bat. Is $16,500 too much to pay?
06-01-2010 11:19 PM
distortedtj The 2004, I6 manual trans is the NV3550.

Spec's....
NV3550 - 2000-2004
5 speed manual
Used with 6 cyl models
10 spline input
23 spline output
Ratios:
1st - 4.01
2nd - 2.33
3rd - 1.39
4th - 1.00
5th - 0.78
Rev - 3.57

With that trans and 33's , 4.56 is a good ratio.

Always remember though. A wrangler is a brick on wheels. They just don't perform as a car when accelerating. And never will.
06-01-2010 11:11 PM
distortedtj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgahan View Post
Its a manual trans with D35. Not sure what gears in it now, didnt check when i checked it out
Option are the ones listed above that's it. But yes basically an X with some eye candy.

Look on the rear diff cover at the 9 o'clock postion,,,there should be a tag held on by the diff cover bolts. Stamped into the tag is the factory gear ratio.

06-01-2010 11:05 PM
Mgahan
Quote:
Originally Posted by distortedtj View Post
Gears is definitely the right thing first.

Gearing for the 33's will depend on your transmission...is it an auto or manual?

Also to check what the rear axle is just look at it....oval shaped center section and a rubber fill plug it is a D35

More Hexagon shaped and metal fill plug it is a D44.

PS...most ALL willys editions came stock with a D35 rear. But still check.
Its a manual trans with D35. Not sure what gears in it now, I assume 3.7. I understand the Willy is just an "X" with some cosmetic upgrades. So whatever comes standard on the "X"?
06-01-2010 11:01 PM
distortedtj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgahan View Post
1) Is that normal for a stock (Wrangler X) with 4'' lift and 33'' tires?

2) What are some solutions, price, and expected gains (exhaust, chip, gears, axle, air intake, ext.)?
1) With stock gearing...yes..most likely have 3.07 gears

2) Little to no improvement for any of them.

Again best is gearing for the much larger tire size.
06-01-2010 10:59 PM
distortedtj Here are the "specials" of the willy's edition....

Water resistant Camo and black seats
Unique "WILLYS" decal at cowl side
Diamond plate rocker guards painted Dark Green
Body-color fender flares
AM/FM stereo radio with CD player and seven speakers (includes subwoofer in center console) - no extra charge
4.0L Power Tech I-6 engine
Tow hooks
Fog lamps
Full-size spare tire with matching wheel

Basicly...stickers, color matched flairs/green softtop and the camo seats...everything else is also an option of any other wrangler model.
06-01-2010 10:54 PM
distortedtj Here is a link to axle identification...... http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/tj-l...ion-50307.html

Welcome to the forum.
06-01-2010 10:53 PM
distortedtj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgahan View Post
Id rather do things right and start with the big stuff and work my way down to the small stuff. So if I plan on staying with the 33'' should i go 3.73, 4.10, or 4.88? Is 4.88 overkill or will it only increase performance? Also what does an axle upgrade run? Dana 35? Dana 44?
Gears is definitely the right thing first.

Gearing for the 33's will depend on your transmission...is it an auto or manual?

Also to check what the rear axle is just look at it....oval shaped center section and a rubber fill plug it is a D35

More Hexagon shaped and metal fill plug it is a D44.

PS...most ALL willys editions came stock with a D35 rear. But still check.
06-01-2010 10:48 PM
Mgahan Id rather do things right and start with the big stuff and work my way down to the small stuff. So if I plan on staying with the 33'' should i go 3.73, 4.10, or 4.88? Is 4.88 overkill or will it only increase performance? Also what does an axle upgrade run? Dana 35? Dana 44?
06-01-2010 09:21 PM
GroundHawg Sounds to me like she's needs some lower gears. This is the correct, and most costly way to correct the issue.

Another option is a chip. It's much cheaper than gears, and will get you some power back, but not as much as gears.

Don't even bother with the exhaust systems and intakes. They do next to nothing for ANY of the Jeep engines. It's a waste of money.

Gears are $1000-2000
chips/programmers $150-350

this is common when upgrading to larger tires.
06-01-2010 09:12 PM
Mgahan
Gaining Power?

So I have been in the market for a Wrangler for a few months now. I found a 2004 Willy edition 4.0L with 4'' pro comp lift and 33'' pro comp tires with 8,800 miles, practically brand new. The only problem is I drove it and it felt way under powered and bogged down, especially in the higher gears on the highway. I had a hard time keeping it at 60 mph.

1) Is that normal for a stock (Wrangler X) with 4'' lift and 33'' tires?

2) What are some solutions, price, and expected gains (exhaust, chip, gears, axle, air intake, ext.)?

Thanks for all suggestions

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