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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-18-2011 01:06 AM
97wrangler-242
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Jeepn

Factor in the weight of the bigger tire as well. More moving mass, taller, etc etc. just all adds up and will put stress on an already week axle. I have seen them bust on 31's.
Shredded gears and cracked carrier on 31s
05-13-2011 10:03 PM
MikeMTJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA_Jeepster View Post
Nick50471: I think we're saying the same thing: the bigger tire is like a longer handle on the wrench. What puzzles me is the "handle" from the 35's is only 12% longer than with 31's, and making my wrench 12% longer doesn't gain me much in torque, so I'm still puzzled why such a seemingly small change in torque increases the chance of breaking the axle so dramatically. It seems the answer may be that the axles are so close to the limit with 31's, that the extra 12% is significant, since you can't "slightly" break an axle.
If you fill a glass up with water, it's filled up 100%. If you add 12% more water to your already full glass, it over flows.

12% doesn't sound like much, but if you're already at your limit....12% is a lot.

So what you're saying is right. It just makes sense to think of it that way.
05-13-2011 09:36 PM
mopardan97 As stated before the extra weight of each tire is adding stress to the axles as well. I don't know the difference in weight but I can tell you the 31s I ran on steel wheels were significantly lighter than my 33s on aluminum wheels. You are right though in that the Dana 35 could have been close to it's tolerance with 31s especially if your beating on it
05-13-2011 08:28 PM
PA_Jeepster
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
You are looking at it all wrong. Think of the axle as a bolt you are trying to remove. The shorter the wrench the more strength it takes to loosen. When you use the breaker bar and a pipe the bolt breaks with much less effort. The larger diameter tire is a bigger wrench.
Nick50471: I think we're saying the same thing: the bigger tire is like a longer handle on the wrench. What puzzles me is the "handle" from the 35's is only 12% longer than with 31's, and making my wrench 12% longer doesn't gain me much in torque, so I'm still puzzled why such a seemingly small change in torque increases the chance of breaking the axle so dramatically. It seems the answer may be that the axles are so close to the limit with 31's, that the extra 12% is significant, since you can't "slightly" break an axle.
05-13-2011 08:17 AM
C.L.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
Having a brain doesn't mean your intelligent.
Classic
05-13-2011 04:46 AM
Northwest4x4
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ Knight View Post
You said ARB in the Rubicon D44



It would have been nice but was not to be. Nothing wrong with the Air Locker in the Rubi TJ/LJ but it's just not a ARB
Woops haha nice catch my mind must have been in dream mode, when i think "air locker" i think "arb air locker" funny how a 3 letter word typo in a paragraph can make me look completely idiotic
05-13-2011 03:22 AM
XJ Knight You said ARB in the Rubicon D44



It would have been nice but was not to be. Nothing wrong with the Air Locker in the Rubi TJ/LJ but it's just not a ARB
05-13-2011 02:42 AM
Northwest4x4 Here is my opinion to the Original poster... Dana 35 with 35's won't work. Modding/Locking/Building a Dana 35 is a waste of time and money. A Factory Dana 44 Rubicon comes with the arb air locker and you could most likely buy one for the price of building the d35 like you plan on doing. Ford 8.8's are also better than the D35 but I recomend going with a Ford Dana 60 setup

Bottom line don't even put money into your stock axles Run some 10.50 31'' mud terrains in the mean time, it will be completely offroadable believe me and while you wear down the 31''s look for used rubicon dana 44's or atleast the rear, and buy it the day you see it because they go fast like throwing a hundred dollar bill in front of homeless people.
05-13-2011 01:20 AM
MikeMTJ Just so ya'll know, the poster stopped responding the day he posted it in January. Lol, don't want to think you're actually helping him/her anymore.
05-13-2011 12:45 AM
Hendog
Quote:
Originally Posted by b18c1vc View Post
i was going to go with the detroit truloc b/c its a lsd type carrier and you gotta buy a carrier to get a ring and pinion with the right gear ratio for the larger tires. they sounded good cause they werent a full locker and i didnt want to invest to much in these axles since i want to upgrade later.
That's what I'm doing.
05-12-2011 10:41 PM
nick50471
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA_Jeepster
Help me understand why larger tires cause such serious problems with a Dana 35. I understand that the larger tire increases the twisting forces on the axle because because of the larger wheel circumference. But, going from 31's to 35's is an increase in circumference of only 4/31 or about 12%. So the increase in stress on the axle is 12%. Am I to conclude that the whole thing is engineered so close to the edge that an increase of 12% causes disaster? It would seem that how much gas I give the motor, i.e. how much torque I send to the wheels, would play a much larger role than the 12% from the larger circumference. Or, does the axle break when the wheel goes from spinning to stopping suddenly, for example it hops off a rock and then hits another rock? But still, I think we're looking at a 12% increase.
You are looking at it all wrong. Think of the axle as a bolt you are trying to remove. The shorter the wrench the more strength it takes to loosen. When you use the breaker bar and a pipe the bolt breaks with much less effort. The larger diameter tire is a bigger wrench.
05-12-2011 10:15 PM
4Jeepn
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA_Jeepster View Post
Help me understand why larger tires cause such serious problems with a Dana 35. I understand that the larger tire increases the twisting forces on the axle because because of the larger wheel circumference. But, going from 31's to 35's is an increase in circumference of only 4/31 or about 12%. So the increase in stress on the axle is 12%. Am I to conclude that the whole thing is engineered so close to the edge that an increase of 12% causes disaster? It would seem that how much gas I give the motor, i.e. how much torque I send to the wheels, would play a much larger role than the 12% from the larger circumference. Or, does the axle break when the wheel goes from spinning to stopping suddenly, for example it hops off a rock and then hits another rock? But still, I think we're looking at a 12% increase.
Factor in the weight of the bigger tire as well. More moving mass, taller, etc etc. just all adds up and will put stress on an already week axle. I have seen them bust on 31's.
05-12-2011 10:06 PM
PA_Jeepster Help me understand why larger tires cause such serious problems with a Dana 35. I understand that the larger tire increases the twisting forces on the axle because because of the larger wheel circumference. But, going from 31's to 35's is an increase in circumference of only 4/31 or about 12%. So the increase in stress on the axle is 12%. Am I to conclude that the whole thing is engineered so close to the edge that an increase of 12% causes disaster? It would seem that how much gas I give the motor, i.e. how much torque I send to the wheels, would play a much larger role than the 12% from the larger circumference. Or, does the axle break when the wheel goes from spinning to stopping suddenly, for example it hops off a rock and then hits another rock? But still, I think we're looking at a 12% increase.
01-29-2011 06:59 PM
tracy i went with the alloy 27 spline alloys so that i could buy or borrow a stock axle on the trail,,,how many of you have a 30 spline d35 axle on the trail to help out ?
01-29-2011 12:00 PM
nick50471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I bought my used Dana 44 out of a TJ and had it regeared to 4.88 for $1200, less than it would cost for the majority of Jeepers to get an 8.8 ready to bolt into a TJ. Everyone talks about the proverbial $200 for an 8.8 but by the time it is rebuilt, regeared, and you buy the TJ brackets and have a welder get them welded in position, it's not going to be any less than $1200. If you're a welder/fabricator then yes you can do it for way less than that but I'd venture that maybe only 1% of us in the various Jeep forums have those skills.
I must add something too Jerry.

Owning a welder does not mean you are a welder. Owning a sawzall and angle grinder does not mean you have the skills to be a fabricator. Having a brain doesn't mean your intelligent.
01-29-2011 11:56 AM
XJ Knight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I bought my used Dana 44 out of a TJ and had it regeared to 4.88 for $1200, less than it would cost for the majority of Jeepers to get an 8.8 ready to bolt into a TJ. Everyone talks about the proverbial $200 for an 8.8 but by the time it is rebuilt, regeared, and you buy the TJ brackets and have a welder get them welded in position, it's not going to be any less than $1200. If you're a welder/fabricator then yes you can do it for way less than that but I'd venture that maybe only 1% of us in the various Jeep forums have those skills.
Alex, I'll take reasons to buy a TJ with a D44 already installed unless you want tons for $1200 please
01-29-2011 11:52 AM
Jerry Bransford I bought my used Dana 44 out of a TJ and had it regeared to 4.88 for $1200, less than it would cost for the majority of Jeepers to get an 8.8 ready to bolt into a TJ. Everyone talks about the proverbial $200 for an 8.8 but by the time it is rebuilt, regeared, and you buy the TJ brackets and have a welder get them welded in position, it's not going to be any less than $1200. If you're a welder/fabricator then yes you can do it for way less than that but I'd venture that maybe only 1% of us in the various Jeep forums have those skills.
01-29-2011 11:52 AM
EdJonesJeeper
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ Knight View Post
Locking the D35 without doing the super 35 kit from superior axle is risky business.. Unlocked and 33's you should be fine or even with limited slips.. But not a full locker.. Unless you do the super 35 I wouldn't recommend investing gears or a locker into that axle.. You'll only have to go back and buy another locker and regear the D44 or F8.8 when the D35 goes boom..
My d35 with a limited slip went "man the hatches BOOM!" first trip wheeling with 33's

'tis a pirates life for me
01-29-2011 11:40 AM
CapnDean I think it is the economics of an axle swap that makes or breaks it. MOST of us are not hard core baja racers or massive rock crawlers that need indestructible truck axles. But many of us need something more durable than the D35. The economics is where the Ford 8.8 comes into play. You get a heavier duty axle, disc brakes relatively cheap. But of course you can ruin any deal by going overboard. One jeeper might find a pair of 44's in the junkyard with his desired gear ratio and snap it up on the cheap. It really just depends on what youcan prattle together. I think the ford is popular because it is sooooo common and because of that relatively cheap.
01-29-2011 11:14 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by doclouie View Post
So wouldn't you need to change gears if you upgraded to a 30 spline shaft from the stock 27 spline?
No, you can use the same gears. They don't care what spline count the axle shafts are.
01-29-2011 10:47 AM
Sherpa
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTJRod View Post
It's like saying why use a D60 when you can use a 14 bolt or a D70 or rockwells. They all have there advantages and there disadvantages.

If 37's is all someone will want to run for 3 years an 8.8 that you spend under a thousand dollars on could be the ticket(just don't do donuts). And a D60 where the price can easily go to 2 thousand could be considered overkill.

I only said the 8.8 in it's strongest form because alot of people are stupid when it comes to driving offroad and anyone can break any axle it they don't now how to drive it right.
I agree with everything you said here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTJRod View Post
And isn't improving the weakness of our vehicles why we are all on the forum?
And I especially agree with this statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTJRod View Post
That's ridiculous says the man swapping a v8 into a miata
I suppose I have been guilty of overkill on occasion, yes. Someday I'll have to tell you about my former minivan which could--and did--outrun a WRX STI at my local drag strip.
01-29-2011 09:46 AM
TheTJRod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherpa View Post
I'm sorry, but I thought this was too humorous to pass up:



I lol'ed at how you proclaim the 8.8 is super strong if we'll just allow you to improve upon its weak spots. This is kinda like saying a Toyota Prius is a fabulous drag car if you do an engine swap to a blown Hemi... and convert it to RWD... and add wheelie bars.

To anyone with a D35 rear axle who wants to upgrade their rig, I think spending money on the D35 is unwise. If you end up having to upgrade the axle in the future, you'll have to re-spend all your upgrade money all over again. Buying the same mod twice isn't my idea of fun.

If you do have a D35 and want to go stronger, swapping in an 8.8 is a great idea--it is a good axle. But for those with a D44, odds are very good that they are set for life. Seriously, the OEM D44 is strong enough for at least 99% of TJ owners out there.

And for the lunatic fringe that demands more--say, someone who is converting their TJ into a trail buggy to enter professional rockcrawling competitions--then even those guys will pass up the 8.8 because it, too, is too weak for their needs. Those guys are going straight for the Dana60.

Sure you could use a Dana 60 but I would rather not go with the heavy axle that makes me lose ground clearance and costs so much more. It's like saying why use a D60 when you can use a 14 bolt or a D70 or rockwells. They all have there advantages and there disadvantages. And isn't improving the weakness of our vehicles why we are all on the forum? If 37's is all someone will want to run for 3 years an 8.8 that you spend under a thousand dollars on could be the ticket(just don't do donuts). And a D60 where the price can easily go to 2 thousand could be considered overkill. I never proclaimed it is super strong, you have to beef it up. I only said the 8.8 in it's strongest form because alot of people are stupid when it comes to driving offroad and anyone can break any axle it they don't now how to drive it right.

That's ridiculous says the man swapping a v8 into a miata
01-29-2011 12:19 AM
Sherpa I'm sorry, but I thought this was too humorous to pass up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTJRod View Post
An 8.8 with the C-clip eliminator with yukon axles can handle locked 37's all day. Especially after being trussed.
I lol'ed at how you proclaim the 8.8 is super strong if we'll just allow you to improve upon its weak spots. This is kinda like saying a Toyota Prius is a fabulous drag car if you do an engine swap to a blown Hemi... and convert it to RWD... and add wheelie bars.

To anyone with a D35 rear axle who wants to upgrade their rig, I think spending money on the D35 is unwise. If you end up having to upgrade the axle in the future, you'll have to re-spend all your upgrade money all over again. Buying the same mod twice isn't my idea of fun.

If you do have a D35 and want to go stronger, swapping in an 8.8 is a great idea--it is a good axle. But for those with a D44, odds are very good that they are set for life. Seriously, the OEM D44 is strong enough for at least 99% of TJ owners out there.

And for the lunatic fringe that demands more--say, someone who is converting their TJ into a trail buggy to enter professional rockcrawling competitions--then even those guys will pass up the 8.8 because it, too, is too weak for their needs. Those guys are going straight for the Dana60.
01-28-2011 11:28 PM
TheTJRod
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypit-TJ View Post
! had a D35 with a Detriot locker and 35's, blew it up quick doing donuts in a field after a rain storm...no good... dont build one either, waste of money. Do an 8.8 and dont look back or plan on getting stranded in the middle of a field somewhere, losing your brand new brakes and blowing a hole in the sidewall of your brand new 35" Good year mtr getting it on the trailer like i did ... F*CK the D35.
First off.. you blew it because you were doing donuts with 35's and a FULL locker without upgraded shafts. That would most likely blow a d44 as well. Axles break very easily when you have a wheel spining very fast with no traction that suddenly gets traction and stops violently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doclouie View Post
So wouldn't you need to change gears if you upgraded to a 30 spline shaft from the stock 27 spline?
In order to use 30 spline axle shafts you must change out the carrier to be compatible. You can reuse your old gears but will have to be set back up by a professional.
01-28-2011 10:01 PM
doclouie So wouldn't you need to change gears if you upgraded to a 30 spline shaft from the stock 27 spline?
01-28-2011 09:13 PM
moneypit-TJ ! had a D35 with a Detriot locker and 35's, blew it up quick doing donuts in a field after a rain storm...no good... dont build one either, waste of money. Do an 8.8 and dont look back or plan on getting stranded in the middle of a field somewhere, losing your brand new brakes and blowing a hole in the sidewall of your brand new 35" Good year mtr getting it on the trailer like i did ... F*CK the D35.
01-28-2011 06:31 PM
TheTJRod
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracy View Post
isnt a super 35 kit only alloy axles and a locker...i have both- so do i have a homeade 35 kit?
The super 35 comes in a stronger 30 spline axle shafts.
01-28-2011 06:18 PM
tracy isnt a super 35 kit only alloy axles and a locker...i have both- so do i have a homeade 35 kit?
01-28-2011 06:10 PM
Jerry Bransford You can see a c-clip sitting between the two bolts towards the right. Dead-center to the left of the right-most gear inside the differential, you can see the slot in the axle shaft that the c-clip fits into.

There is one for each rear axle shaft and they hold the axle shaft into the axle housing. They are inserted into the slot you can see above, it holds the axle shaft in place. Since that clip is the only thing that holds the axle shaft into the differential, the axle shaft can slide out and depart the axle housing if the axle shaft breaks, leaving the unbroken-half still held by the c-clip inside the axle tube.
01-28-2011 06:07 PM
TheTJRod
Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyrider17 View Post
May sound dumb but can someone explain c-clips and all that? I'm looking to upgrade to 35's sometime in the future and need some info. I would want to keep the stock axles and do a super 35 kit in the rear, 4.65 gears from superior, and some sort of locker in the front. How well would this hold up/perform for all around off roading? Sorry about the hijacking, I'm too lazy to make a new thread.
There are three basic types of solid axles. C-clip, semi float, and full float.

C-clips(D35c)
The c-clip axle shafts are retained only by a c-clip in the carrier. So if the axle breaks the entire wheel assembly can slip right off if you have drums and if you have disc your wheel is dependant on the two tiny caliper bolts. The axle shaft are used to retain the wheel assembly, carry the load, and transfer torque to the wheel.



Semi Float(D44)
Semi float axles like the d44 have a wheel flange that mounts with four bolts at both ends of the axle. The axle shaft normally rides on a bearing near the ends of the axle. So if the axle shaft breaks you can remove the inner portion of the broken axle and carry on your marry way(BACK TO CAMP) but with no power in the axle. The axle shaft is used to carry the load and transmit torque to the wheel.


Full floating(some D60-70, F9" and others, mainly only in full size trucks)
The entire load of the vehicle rides on a bearing and the axle shaft is splined to slide in it. The axle hubs can be locked and unlocked just like front locking hubs (this is great for flat towing).If the axle shaft breaks you can remove the entire axle shaft and be on your marry way all the way back home. The axle shaft is only responsible for transmitting torque to the wheel.



Due to the fact that full floating axles only have to send torque to the wheels a full floating axle will always be capable of more loading and stress than the exact same axle that is semi floating.
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