|Today 04:39 PM|
|Kenny321||My engine is vibrating and making my whole jeep vibrate what could cause that any info would be nice 2014 jk rubicon 2 door no lift everything stock|
|12-12-2014 06:42 PM|
|12-12-2014 05:48 PM|
I have a 1990 Jeep YJ Wrangler. A rather large tree fell on the hood and damage is quite extensive. I have repaired most of the damage. My question is the drivers side front tire is considerably cantered in at the top. What would usually bend to cause this condition.
I have jacked it up and spin the tire and there is no wobble. runs straight.
any ideas would be appreciated
|11-01-2014 10:46 PM|
|kjeeper10||People with multiple DW episodes can develop steering box issues. You mentioned flex or play in the sector shaft. I would bring focus to the steering box.|
|11-01-2014 08:38 PM|
|Kiddmen57||All the rubber bushings look new too....|
|11-01-2014 08:35 PM|
Pretty much. DW'd then to tire shop for balance and rotate. Home and went through the checklist. Found slight play in drag link ends and upper driver ballpoint had visible vertical movement. All other TREs were solid and all bolts checked out good.
Haven't done alignment yet for reasons stated earlier.
A couple DW episodes later including one after installing a new drag link and going through the checklist note the tie rod ends are now seemingly loose. Track bar still torqued and re-checked holes- no sign whatsoever of ovaling.
I know the dampener is toast but is just a bandaid. Sector shaft appears to have some flex in it, hard to tell by eye. There is a clunk though from it when going back and forth. Thus new tie rod, Ball joints, and adding a sector shaft brace and compatible track bar.
Once I'm done with those items I'll get an alignment and have the tires balanced again just for good measure.
|11-01-2014 06:42 PM|
|11-01-2014 06:20 PM|
So I am just now experiencing the horrors of DW. I have just under 20K on my 2013 JKUR and 15k since I did my AEV 3.5 lift. I followed all the proper setup procedures (torquing under load etc) and the jeep has been a dream to drive since. That is until this week when I hit a construction plate in the road and went into full on DW, first time it ever happened. Had to stop in the road and continue. Happened twice more before I got home. Found this article and checked the front end out.
A bit of history...I grease the chassis/ driveline components, rotate tires, check major component torques, and change oil every 3K miles. As I went through the front end I noted that the drag link TREs were looking a bit worn and the upper driver balljoint has a bit of vertical play (visually able to see it). So I ordered a new drag link. This did not solve the issue and I had a DW episode on my test drive (same initial DW construction plate). So I went over everything again, my TB holes are not ovaled, the bolt hasn't moved since originally installed (yes i used 9/16 upgrades on the TB). Now my mind is going crazy. The TREs on the tie rod seem worn out now, I still have a clunk in the drag link (brand new Synergy) which I think might be the sector shaft and still don't have a definitive solution. Again, my track bar has been 100% fine every time i've checked it.
Now, I did not yet check alignment, tires were balanced immediately after the first DW day and rotated as well. So now my plan is new ball joints, new synergy tie rod, track bar, track bar and sector arm brace, fox ATS stabilizer (my OME blew with the first DW episode) and after all that an alignment and another tire balancing.
I Just have this sickness in my gut that makes me think it'll still be there after all this and $1600 in new parts and alignment.
2013 JKUR with AEV 3.5 SC (with geo correcting brackets) and BFG AT 315/70's on stock wheels with 1.5 spidertrax spacers (also torque checked every tire rotation - never one loose).
Im just really hoping that replacing/ upgrading all the steering components and such will fix this as I never did find one smoking gun, but a couple minor possibly worn parts.
|09-04-2014 02:49 PM|
A mechanics take on "Death Wobble"
The kingpin axis inherent in every coil spring steerable solid live axle that I'm aware of, due to the nature of the available geometry, lends itself to a tire scrub radius prone to perpetuating wheel oscillation - resulting in 'Death Wobble'.
For lack of a simpler description;
Think of 'Scrub Radius' on a steerable solid axle as the usually calm pair of 800lb gorillas in the room..
Add in loose steering/suspension parts-higher lift/increased angles-larger tires-more rim offset-etc, etc.. now hitting a bump is like poking one of the gorillas, one gets upset-then both get upset-start fighting each other..
I think most can imagine the results of that scenario...
In other words, I don't believe any one of the above are a specific 'reason for' but more so a 'result of', the "geometrically dynamic" limitations inherent to these type suspension/steering systems.
You can't redesign the laws of physics so you'll have to take some bad with the good.
If you want a 'simple to lift-high articulation-solid live axle' like coil spring types, you're gonna have to deal with a negative aspect or two..
However, by keeping steering & suspension components tight, most shouldn't have any issues...
|09-03-2014 08:08 PM|
Did you go through everything 100%
DW can cause a lot of damage. Worn track bar holes, ball joints, tre's, steering box/sector shaft.
Don't want it to sneak back up on you.
|09-03-2014 07:07 PM|
|eh384||Just dropped mine off at the shop to fix my wobbles. I have a 2010 Unlimited, 4 inch lift, 37 inch Nittos. My guess is its the ball joints...|
|09-03-2014 06:39 PM|
|Wkdstx||Just installed a RoughCountry 3.5" lift on my 2014 4 door JK. Followed everything in instructions to a tee (I thought). Took it for a test drive, "wa la" Death Wobble. And I mean bad. Slowly drove home and began dissecting components like Planman's write up. Loose bolt on the track bar mount at the axle. Bolt wasn't long enough to properly engage the lock nut and came Louise. Went to the hardware store and got longer Grade-8 and "bam" .......DW gone. I tried to hit small dips and pot holes to ensure my find was correct and I'm glad to report no issues. Going to alignment shop in the am. Thank you very much Planman, for a excellent write up.|
|09-03-2014 12:58 AM|
Not gonna read all this but I got very clear, repeatable DW on a 2013 with 19k miles, no lift, and 32s. Tightening the track bar bolts fixed it.
Seems clear to me Planman is on to something.
|09-02-2014 07:28 PM|
So I didn't take too many pics, but I will say it was easy to have on jack stands , both wheels off, but I couldn't for the life of me so god help me loosen the tie rod from the bar on the passenger side! It was impossible , we even heated it and stuff to try.. Clamps.. Vice grips. Etc.. So I have 3 of the 4 pieces replaced . I'm going to buy the bar with that side already on, eff the hassle trying again.. Now here comes the fun part, that little shock dampener that's connected to the track bar was blown too, soo I ordered it, and before I can even get it here.. I drive away and go home, and starts to wobble again even with new drag link etc, well the weld holding that shock broke off .. Now I'm down a car can't even drive .. My big question is even with ALL the steering stuff being fixed, would having new shocks maybe help absorb some of that impact rather them the steering taking a lot of it?
|08-29-2014 11:06 PM|
|08-29-2014 07:04 PM|
|08-29-2014 02:02 PM|
|08-29-2014 05:48 AM|
The easiest way to do things. Replace the drag link first. Remove and match the new drag link in length. Adjust so the Steering wheel is centered. The tie rod is a little more difficult. Remove SS then tie rod. Measure and try to match the lengths. This sets your toe angle so it's important the lengths match. There's plenty of write ups how to set toe. If unsure .. Have the jeep professionally aligned.
Couple ways to break the taper from the knuckle.
Sometimes a solid hammer whack to the knuckle works. I like to leave the nut loose but left on near the top of the bolt (to protect the threads) use a piece if wood and hit the bolt head with a hammer.
|08-29-2014 12:50 AM|
In the pic I got what is considered the drag link .. Both ends.. The long shaft and the short one.. Then the ends of the tie rod too.. Those 4 parts
|08-28-2014 10:57 PM|
It's just another quirky problem to add to the possibilities, in case the wobble is accompanied by weird electrical symptoms.
|08-28-2014 10:25 PM|
|08-28-2014 09:42 PM|
Just wanted to say a huge thanks to Planman for all the information and the videos.
My inspection didn't turn up anything (except a grimy bruise on my forehead), BUT my death wobble went away after I fixed some electrical problems that had been worsening at the same rate.
For a long time my Jeep had a mild possession: when I opened the door or put in the key, occasionally the wipers would jump or the horn would beep quickly. I assumed it was a relay somewhere, but since it was just a mild nuisance I didn't go after it. Then a few weeks ago it worsened: several times while I was driving, the horn would start chattering, the wipers and fluid pump would go haywire, and sometimes the stabilization light and one other light would come on (I don't remember which). I could get it to stop by pounding on the lid of the fuse box, which I learned accidentally but which worked consistently.
Around that time, I began to experience an unsettling occasional wobbling when I was going between 35-55 mph and turning the wheel to the left. I didn't think about it til later, but it worsened at the same rate the possession did.
To make a long story longer, I dismantled the fuse box/power distribution assembly, cleaned all the connections and put it back together. This totally solved the electrical possession, including that old mild nuisance with the horn/wipers. AND, bonus! It did solve my wobble. Hypothesis is that it was freaking out the stabilization system which created a bad feedback loop ... but what do I know. At least that wobble is gone...it really was strong and sometimes borderline frightening.
|08-28-2014 07:46 PM|
|08-28-2014 06:10 PM|
|Rubedog||Sorry to keep this going but i have all my new drag link/tie rod components, how long on average does it take to change them, how easy is it? ive worked on many jeeps before but never messed with steering..I am glad you posted those videos, helped me out a ton to diagnose, thank you. they seem fairly easy to change just give myself a few hours i take it|
|04-28-2014 12:50 PM|
Im having some serious flighty issues.
only think i havent replaced is the draglink.
occasionally she will randomly wander off track and i have to fight a little to bring her back. alignment is good. im thinking its one or both of the TREs on the drag link.
|03-06-2014 08:38 AM|
|MrJones944||Started to feel a little wobble about 6 months ago and it got progressively worse. OE ball joints last 31k miles with 35" tires and some light wheeling thrown in the mix. Luckily Szott Jeep in Michigan is awesome and its a warranty repair.|
|02-25-2014 07:02 PM|
|MarksJKU||Hey Planman! Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this. You've answered most of the questions I've had about solid axle front end components. So far I don't have the DW, but I'll be sure to use this info in the future if needed. Thanks Again!|
|02-25-2014 05:45 PM|
If Alex is still following this, I wanted to report that I found the following from the Chrysler rep on jeepforum:
|02-19-2014 11:21 AM|
The purpose of this thread is to help people diagnose the sources of their Death Wobble and Non-DW Wobbles and Shimmies.
We both agree that proper maintenance and installations reduce the possibility of full on, rip-your-front-end-apart Death Wobble.
We both agree that keeping tires balanced and rotated, and keeping alignment specs correct is critical to maintenance.
I think you agree with me that periodically retorquing suspension bolts should be part of normal maintenance.
I think you probably agree with me that the "acceptable" range of play in ball joints and other suspension components is too broad--especially when there is a cumulative affect when there is "within spec" play in multiple components at the same time.
I think we agree that a vehicle that gets used offroad gets exposed to damage or stress to components--i.e. a rock or tree stump can damage the adjusting sleeve/collar on the front tie rod, which puts the alignment out of spec, and which introduces play/vibrations to the front end that can damage other components.
I think that where we disagree is that I believe that believe that a rig with perfectly balanced tires and a correct alignment can still develop Death Wobble if suspension bolts are not periodically torqued or if rubber control arm or trackbar bushings are pinched between brackets in a non-nuetral, pre-loaded/binding/twisting position. I believe that road variations from crossing bridge expansion joints, railroad tracks, potholes, etc., are the most common triggers of the Death Wobble oscillations.
I think we also disagree about tires. For example, I don't believe that a Goodyear MTR 35x12.50R17, load range C, 111Q service description tire will result in wobble and shimmy problems and premature component wear on a 4000-4500 lbs jeep.
In the end, I think what would be most helpful for readers--with the understanding that the majority of readers of this thread are already dealing with shimmy, wobble, and/or full on Death Wobble issues--is to clarify that we agree on the thoroughness of the steps required to diagnose all the sources of the problems, and that it is incompetent to simply balance and rotate tires, do an alignment, and install a new steering stabilizer without a thorough diagnosis that identifies why the steering stablizer failed prematurely.
|02-19-2014 10:14 AM|
So I was correct. The definition of "DW" is different to some people. I think it would be safe to "agree to disagree"
This is what most including myself consider death wobble. There's many videos but this one if one of my favorites,
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