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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-17-2011 09:59 AM
davidlk
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp View Post
That pretty much leaves the starter, the ignition switch or wiring.

You try shorting the starter solenoid terminals with a screwdriver?
replaced starter/batt yes engine cranks w/screwdriver, won't start tho. have no clue at this point. is also swapped relays, apparently ignition not getting power or something stupid, is there a fuse? at this point its basically for sale. I think I am done w/jeeps. Anyone in dayton ohio, I need help!!! my only other option is to pay out the a@# to have someone look at it
03-15-2011 07:06 PM
jkp That pretty much leaves the starter, the ignition switch or wiring.

You try shorting the starter solenoid terminals with a screwdriver?
03-13-2011 01:38 PM
davidlk
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp View Post
You can just put the fuse in the bypass slot for your X. From the owner's manual:

Clutch Interlocking Ignition System (Non —
Rubicon Models Only)
Manual transmission vehicles are equipped with a clutch
interlock safety feature. With this feature engaged, you
must depress the clutch pedal to allow cranking of the
engine. To temporarily bypass this safety feature while
off-road driving (4L range only), which will allow cranking
the engine without depressing the clutch, follow
these steps:
1. Locate the Power Distribution Center (PDC) in the
engine compartment. Refer to “Fuse Panel” in Section 7
of this manual. (See page 305 for more information.)
2. Put a 10 Amp fuse in the PDC cavity (#28) marked as
Clutch Override.
NOTE: A fuse is provided in fuseblock cavity (f19 or
f20) marked as Spare.

You can download a copy of the owner's manual from Jeep.com
yep tried all that. put new batt in it today also. the battery needed replaced anyhow. i have tried fuse and 4lo. at this point its going somewhere on a hook and after i spend bloody fortune to get it fixed it will be for sale!!!!!! if you have any other ideas i am all ears. I drove it Friday and it worked fine. now it wont crank at all the "switch" on the clutch broke a long time ago so that is why I have completely removed it anf=d jumpered the connector. still nothing thx
03-13-2011 09:17 AM
jkp You can just put the fuse in the bypass slot for your X. From the owner's manual:

Clutch Interlocking Ignition System (Non —
Rubicon Models Only)
Manual transmission vehicles are equipped with a clutch
interlock safety feature. With this feature engaged, you
must depress the clutch pedal to allow cranking of the
engine. To temporarily bypass this safety feature while
off-road driving (4L range only), which will allow cranking
the engine without depressing the clutch, follow
these steps:
1. Locate the Power Distribution Center (PDC) in the
engine compartment. Refer to “Fuse Panel” in Section 7
of this manual. (See page 305 for more information.)
2. Put a 10 Amp fuse in the PDC cavity (#28) marked as
Clutch Override.
NOTE: A fuse is provided in fuseblock cavity (f19 or
f20) marked as Spare.

You can download a copy of the owner's manual from Jeep.com
03-12-2011 04:52 PM
davidlk Complete removal takes 5 minutes and no tools. Look under the dash with a flashlight for a round device located on the clutch pushrod. Disconnect the wiring harness, then remove the device by sliding the lock on the top, toward the firewall, as I remember. After removal, insert a 20 amp flat fuse into the wiring harness connection to close the connection, allowing you to start your Jeep without having to depress the clutch pedal.

Hello everyone. New here have done everything you said to do. No luck, guess i am slow am unclear where to put fuse straight on connector? thx jeep wont crank or anything. 06 wrangler x.
03-11-2011 09:28 AM
jgorm Mine broke on my 02 TJ. I would jiggle the clutch to get it to start. Then I got pissed and cut the wires going to the clutch switch. I don't remember if I hooked them together to make it work, or left them apart. Its a 2 min job that costs $0.
03-11-2011 08:56 AM
IndyGoat Thanks jkp. I had a chance to look last night and confirm what you stated. For now, I'll just wire a jumper as you suggested. Once my busy season is over, I will likely replace the assembly. Appreciate everyone's input - these things have sure changed since I owned my first CJ5!!
03-10-2011 08:32 PM
jkp There's not a bypass connector or fuse on an '06 Rubicon. The bypass is done automatically when you shift the t-case into 4LO. To bypass it for normal driving, you'll have to insert a jumper wire across the connector.

Fortunately for me, my switch failed closed, not open, and it now starts without pushing the clutch in.
03-09-2011 08:07 PM
IndyGoat Thanks jkp & Jerry. Until the Indiana weather clears, I think I'll bypass the switch at the plug. I believe I will replace it eventually, as jkp says, the procedure is not terribly difficult. I looked earlier and did not see a "bypass connector", but I wasn't looking for it either. I'll add to the post based on what I find. Thanks again!
03-09-2011 07:04 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyGoat View Post
No offense, but back on track for those of us currently stuck with a bad CPPS. Jerry -


I do not have a slot marked "interlock bypass" on my 2006 Rubicon - the number 10 position, both in the glove box and in the PDC are for other clearly unrelated items. I do have a #28 "clutch bypass" space in the PDC, but there are no contacts in that location. Clearly, the makers did not want Rubicon owners to use this feature in this manner.
I just looked the CPPS up in my 2004 FSM and I was totally surprised at what I found. That it doesn't use a fuse for that function at all, that you move the same connector from "Point A" to "Point B" exactly as I did in my 1997 TJ. That procedure went away in '98 but it looks like it's back for at least some newer models.

Here's the text from that page and below is the illustration from that same page...

CLUTCH PEDAL POSITION
SWITCH
DESCRIPTION
The Clutch Pedal Position Switch (CPPS) is located
under the instrument panel, attached to the clutch
master cylinder push rod (Fig. 11). The wiring harness
connector is inside of the vehicle under the left
side of the instrument panel (Fig. 12).
NOTE: Switch is serviced with clutch master cylinder
only.
Fig. 9 CLUTCH PEDAL MOUNTING - LHD
1 - CLUTCH CYLINDER ACTUATOR
2 - CAPTURED BUSHING
3 - UPPER COWL SUPPORT
4 - PIVOT
5 - CLUTCH PEDAL
6 - BRACKET
7 - DASH PANEL
Fig. 10 CLUTCH PEDAL MOUNTING - RHD
1 - CLUTCH CYLINDER ACTUATOR
2 - CAPTURED BUSHING
3 - UPPER COWL SUPPORT
4 - PIVOT
5 - CLUTCH PEDAL
6 - BRACKET
7 - DASH PANEL
Fig. 11 CLUTCH PEDAL POSITION SWITCH (CPPS)
1 - INSTRUMENT PANEL
2 - SWITCH WIRING HARNESS
3 - CLUTCH PEDAL POSITION SWITCH
4 - CLUTCH MASTER CYLINDER
6 - 10 CLUTCH TJ
OPERATION
The clutch pedal position switch is used to prevent
starter motor engagement unless the clutch pedal is
depressed. An input from this switch is also used to
either shut down/prevent operation of the speed control
system when pedal is depressed.
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING
(1) Disconnect 2-wire switch connector under
instrument panel (Fig. 13).
(2) Check switch continuity with an ohmmeter
while operating clutch pedal.
˛ Pedal Depressed - Continuity
˛ Pedal Released - No Continuity
(3) If continuity is not present or always present,
replace clutch master cylinder. Switch is not serviced
separately.
Fig. 12 CPPS ELECTRICAL CONNECTION
1 - CPPS CONNECTION TO MAIN HARNESS
Fig. 13 CPPS ELECTRICAL CONNECTION
1 - CPPS CONNECTION TO MAIN HARNESS

The below page is from my '97 FSM so its text may not agree with the above but the drawing is exactly the same for how to move that cable.
03-09-2011 05:36 PM
jkp 3.

2 is not that big of a deal other than you have to bleed the clutch after opening the lines. IIRC, 2 bolts on the firewall are all that holds the master cylinder in. Probably less than $100 for the part.
03-08-2011 01:41 PM
IndyGoat No offense, but back on track for those of us currently stuck with a bad CPPS. Jerry -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
What happens if you put a 10 amp fuse into the #10 interlock bypass fuse location in the Rubicon? I would guess that part of the chassis wiring is no different than a non-Rubicon, though the Rubicon automatically bypasses the clutch interlock in 4Lo.
I do not have a slot marked "interlock bypass" on my 2006 Rubicon - the number 10 position, both in the glove box and in the PDC are for other clearly unrelated items. I do have a #28 "clutch bypass" space in the PDC, but there are no contacts in that location. Clearly, the makers did not want Rubicon owners to use this feature in this manner.
Based on this information, I believe I have three options (or four):
1.) put it in 4LO, start the thing, shift to 2HI and go home (or leave it in 4LO and take the scenic route home - maybe this will sound better after item 4)
2.) Replace the entire clutch master cylinder, as the "switch is not a serviceable item" (what's the book time on this procedure?)
3.) pull the plug off the switch at the clutch rod and jumper across the now disconnected plug, thereby eliminating this "safety" feature altogether, or
4.) find someplace that delivers beer and pizza and stay at work until it no longer matters.

Any suggestions? Thanks!!!!!
01-12-2011 10:08 PM
JD Adams
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRG View Post
When I put the 10amp fuse in the clutch switch on my 05 Wrangler X, it does allow you to start the engine without depressing the clutch, however it makes 4WD light come on and remain on.....hmmmmm???
The better to annoy drivers into pulling that fuse out for normal driving, I'm sure. I ripped the entire CPPS assembly out by the wires instead. No annoying dash lights, a lighter clutch and much less complexity. Highly recommended mod.
01-12-2011 09:58 PM
netlohcs
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEZ View Post
Thank you JD. I always wondered why my XJ 5spd didn't need to have the clutch depressed to start it. Now I know. I will be doing this mod over the weekend, and once it's done a remote starting kit will follow along shortly. The ice/snow this winter hasn't been bad around here, but last winter was horrendous I got spoiled using the remote start in my old truck awful quick.
BigEZ, in regards to installing the remote starter, I HIGHLY reccomend that you install it in a configuration designed specifically for a manual transmission vehicle.

The way it works is this - every time you get out of the vehicle, you must "arm" the remote starter. This is done by putting the vehicle in neutral and setting the e-brake (some models require you to set, release, then re-set the ebrake). You are then able to take your keys out of the ignition, and the vehicle STAYS RUNNING. Once you get out of the vehicle and close the door, the vehicle then shuts off. It is in this fashion that the remote starter knows for certain that the vehicle is in neutral, and can be remote started safely.

If you open either door, the remote starter is no longer armed, as you (or someone else) could put the gear lever in gear.

If you do not install your remote starter in this fashion, your vehicle poses a large safety risk. Having your vehicle remote started while the vehicle is in gear is a disaster waiting to happen, especially in a vehicle geared as low as a wrangler.

Disagree if you want, but doing it any other way is very foolish.
01-12-2011 09:25 PM
CapnDean I agree that wearing a seatbelt is a smart thing to do. I disagree with government mandating that I do it. How about the lawnmower that will not go backwards while the blades are turning? Auto trans wont go into gear unless you hit the brake - - It goes on and on... Government's role is to secure our borders. We the people have grown soft and accustomed to not accepting responsibility for our own actions.
01-12-2011 07:23 PM
xxxxxxxxJRG When I put the 10amp fuse in the clutch switch on my 05 Wrangler X, it does allow you to start the engine without depressing the clutch, however it makes 4WD light come on and remain on.....hmmmmm???
01-12-2011 01:18 PM
JD Adams
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEZ View Post
Thank you JD. I always wondered why my XJ 5spd didn't need to have the clutch depressed to start it. Now I know. I will be doing this mod over the weekend, and once it's done a remote starting kit will follow along shortly. The ice/snow this winter hasn't been bad around here, but last winter was horrendous I got spoiled using the remote start in my old truck awful quick.
You're welcome. Everyone has a different skill level and needs, and this "safety device" is useless complexity in my opinion.

I used to enjoy remote starting myself, but I'm lazy now and park in the garage at night.
01-12-2011 12:46 PM
JD Adams
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
I bypassed my switch a few years ago and agree that it has no practical use as I'm the only one that drives it anyway. When I made my rear bumper I also took off my third brake light too. I'm almost 60 and started driving at 14 so pretty much look at two. If there were six brake lights would it be even safer?
In agreement. Some of us are intelligent enough to select neutral before cranking. Catering to stupid people is not my way.

I disagree with Governmental mandates "for our own good." *I* will decide what gets installed on my Jeep, thank you very much. Same goes for ABS, traction control, roll control, and all the rest of the current idiotproofing that I despise.

In fact, I'm considering the removal of the park-interlock on the wife's XJ. Being forced to step on the brake pedal before shifting the transmission is silly.
01-01-2011 01:46 AM
s3nt3nc3d Something else to keep in mind about seatbelts...on newer vehicles with airbags, often times your airbag will be the cause of death when your seatbelt isn't there to position you properly for airbag deployment. Those old cars didn't have airbags so that was one less concern compared to today's vehicles.

I rarely wear a seatbelt in our work trucks since they're pretty heavy and I most likely won't be thrown out...but in my Jeep, I try to wear my seatbelt all the time. The doors and top aren't really designed to hold you in the vehicle...so in a bad accident, you can easily be ejected from the vehicle much easier than most other vehicles. Plus when driving doorless, your seatbelt is often the only thing keeping your face from meeting the road on tight curves.
12-31-2010 10:50 PM
TexasT The government agrees that you have a choice on your seat belts. Here the fine is $250 for not wearing one and you have the right to pay it. I've seen a lot of wrecks that had a good outcome because of seatbelts.
I bypassed my switch a few years ago and agree that it has no practical use as I'm the only one that drives it anyway. When I made my rear bumper I also took off my third brake light too. I'm almost 60 and started driving at 14 so pretty much look at two. If there were six brake lights would it be even safer? Happy New Years and happy trails too.
12-31-2010 10:04 PM
pokey I don't think my seatbelt is over-rated. Neither is my brain, so I wear it
12-31-2010 09:53 PM
Thesnufalufagus And the alcohol is flowing.
Happy New Year
12-31-2010 09:29 PM
Dogzilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I agree on the lack of need for a clutch interlock switch. Absolutely. If my mother, grandmother, and great grandmother could learn to start a stick shift vehicle without it lurching forward by knowing to be in Neutral or to step on the clutch pedal, then today's drivers can too.

I disagree with the 3rd brake light though, that is one of the few "safety-nanny" things that I think is a good thing. My replacement '04 Rubicon didn't come with one but I'll be welding a mount onto my spare tire carrier so I can get one working again. With all the drunks, druggies, cellphone texters, and inattentive drivers on the road, I figure I need all the help I can get by giving them a little more time to react to me stopping by having the 3rd brake light hit them at eye level. It only comes on during braking so it stands out far more and is much more readily seen or noticed than a standard brake light is. It's kind of like seat belts, not many thought they were needed when they first came out and many resisted using them but there are darned few today who are a big enough idiot to not use seatbelts.
Your mama, grandmama, and great grandmama also never put on a seatbelt.....and they survived. And I'm surviving too. I refuse to put on a damn seatbelt. NObody has the right to tell me that I must be tied down in order to drive a car. Or a Jeep either. And.....that doesn't make me an "idiot" any more than it didn't for your mother, grandmother, or great grandmother.

Happy flippin New Year.
12-31-2010 06:25 PM
Mike_3303 I had a problem with that switch breaking on me a while back, i ended up splicing into the wires and attaching a switch to it. I routed it into the glove box so when you turn the switch off and lock the box, no one would be able to start it. and flip the switch up when you want to start the jeep. no need to push the clutch in to start. I've had it on for 6-7 months now with no problems, cheaper than buying a whole new assembly. It only cost be about $10 for the switch and wire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6vF9hd2iVQ
12-31-2010 06:08 PM
BigEZ Thank you JD. I always wondered why my XJ 5spd didn't need to have the clutch depressed to start it. Now I know. I will be doing this mod over the weekend, and once it's done a remote starting kit will follow along shortly. The ice/snow this winter hasn't been bad around here, but last winter was horrendous I got spoiled using the remote start in my old truck awful quick.
12-31-2010 11:24 AM
Jerry Bransford I agree on the lack of need for a clutch interlock switch. Absolutely. If my mother, grandmother, and great grandmother could learn to start a stick shift vehicle without it lurching forward by knowing to be in Neutral or to step on the clutch pedal, then today's drivers can too.

I disagree with the 3rd brake light though, that is one of the few "safety-nanny" things that I think is a good thing. My replacement '04 Rubicon didn't come with one but I'll be welding a mount onto my spare tire carrier so I can get one working again. With all the drunks, druggies, cellphone texters, and inattentive drivers on the road, I figure I need all the help I can get by giving them a little more time to react to me stopping by having the 3rd brake light hit them at eye level. It only comes on during braking so it stands out far more and is much more readily seen or noticed than a standard brake light is. It's kind of like seat belts, not many thought they were needed when they first came out and many resisted using them but there are darned few today who are a big enough idiot to not use seatbelts.
12-31-2010 11:11 AM
JD Adams Another member asked me about removing this device altogether, and wants more information. I removed the CPPS (and that silly 3rd brakelight) the day I bought my 05 TJL. I don't need Nanny Government intruding more than they already have, and I think that I am experienced enough to start my vehicle without governmental assistance, and I don't need to "visit my local Extension Office for more information", thank you very much.

Complete removal takes 5 minutes and no tools. Look under the dash with a flashlight for a round device located on the clutch pushrod. Disconnect the wiring harness, then remove the device by sliding the lock on the top, toward the firewall, as I remember. After removal, insert a 20 amp flat fuse into the wiring harness connection to close the connection, allowing you to start your Jeep without having to depress the clutch pedal.

This is beneficial in many ways. Pedal pressure will be lighter, making shifting easier. Being able to crank the engine while the clutch is engaged and transmission is in gear is a good thing if you're trying to climb or back off a hill and stall out, and having to pull a fuse and stare at the 4WD light all the time just to get this "feature" to work is a PIA.

Worse, I have known people who have been stranded because of a malfunctioning clutch position pedal switch. Reliability is a big deal with me, and anything that removes electrical complexity on a Jeep is good. (Anyone who has Loctronics installed can likely tell you about being stranded when the unit failed. I always advise that this be ripped out by the wires as well.) You can also pull the fuse from the harness later if you want to temporarily disable the starter for security purposes.

If it is difficult to remove the device from underneath the driver's side dash, it may be easier for you to unbolt the clutch master cylinder, pop the clutch pedal pushrod off the pedal with a screwdriver, unplug the wiring harness, then pull the master cylinder out through the firewall to get to the CPPS for removal. Don't forget to place a fuse in the inside wiring harness when you're done.
08-07-2010 11:02 PM
jkp From the '06 manual:

Clutch Interlocking Ignition System (Non —
Rubicon Models Only)
Manual transmission vehicles are equipped with a clutch
interlock safety feature. With this feature engaged, you
must depress the clutch pedal to allow cranking of the
engine. To temporarily bypass this safety feature while
off-road driving (4L range only), which will allow cranking
the engine without depressing the clutch, follow
these steps:
1. Locate the Power Distribution Center (PDC) in the
engine compartment. Refer to “Fuse Panel” in Section 7
of this manual. (See page 305 for more information.)
2. Put a 10 Amp fuse in the PDC cavity (#28) marked as
Clutch Override.
NOTE: A fuse is provided in fuseblock cavity (f19 or
f20) marked as Spare.

As far as fixing your switch:

The Clutch Pedal Position Switch (CPPS) is located
under the instrument panel, attached to the clutch
master cylinder push rod. The wiring harness
connector is inside of the vehicle under the left
side of the instrument panel..

1) Disconnect 2-wire switch connector under
instrument panel.
(2) Check switch continuity with an ohmmeter
while operating clutch pedal.
˛ Pedal Depressed - Continuity
˛ Pedal Released - No Continuity
(3) If continuity is not present or always present,
replace clutch master cylinder. Switch is not serviced
separately.

I'd just jumper it if it were mine.
08-06-2010 08:26 PM
06 Red Rubicon That 4lo trick is nice to know for when i go out to the trails but i need something for daily use too.

Im just curious why you would need to replace the master cylinder to fix the clutch safety switch? Cant you just drop the rod out of the way or are you just saying you have to remove the master cylinder to get the switch out?
08-06-2010 05:48 PM
Jerry Bransford What happens if you put a 10 amp fuse into the #10 interlock bypass fuse location in the Rubicon? I would guess that part of the chassis wiring is no different than a non-Rubicon, though the Rubicon automatically bypasses the clutch interlock in 4Lo.
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