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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-05-2014 10:22 PM
Majnoon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
No they don't. Paper or cardboard end caps would never hold up to hot pressurized oil. The basic Fram end caps are actually made from a synthetic fiber material that was selected so it could flex/move without tearing away from the pleated filtration media they are bonded to. I spent two days in Fram's engineering and laboratory facilities in Ohio to see for myself how they are designed and tested.
Glad you enjoyed the tour. Here is the first video I found on subject after reading your reply. There are countless out there to include failed ones. If the flex/move crap is so good why is it only on the bottom end filter? They use metal on the others. They robbing me of high end cardboard in exchange for steel on the extra guard? Your starting to make this too easy. http://youtu.be/YIcFgjEikUY
08-05-2014 10:08 PM
Pittsburghwrangler
Quote:
Originally Posted by info4tim View Post
And why might that be?
Because they are a crappy generic quality filter charging name brand prices. You can get a better filter for the same or less money.
08-05-2014 09:55 PM
brettmess24
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYjeeper_TJ View Post
True but it will never end.
That's a fact
08-05-2014 09:49 PM
AltitudeAttitude Best bet? Get an oil analysis done for the type of oil you use. It will indicate how well the oil is lubricating your engine by measuring key metals, as well as measuring the residual key properties of your oil. It will also tell you how much longer you can run that oil before changing it.

I've run 8000kms (5000miles) on many brands of conventional, and some to 9000km. This was in a 2005 Altima with 244,000kms. Synthetic will easily give you 10,000+.
08-05-2014 09:33 PM
NYjeeper_TJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettmess24 View Post
No reason to "dig deeper" it's already been covered.
True but it will never end.
08-05-2014 08:30 PM
brettmess24
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYjeeper_TJ View Post
Let's dig deeper in to this never ending thread. how about when to change to synthetic and when to not. Say for our resent higher milage jeep buyer like my self with 215k on the clock. As far as I can see the dealer changed the oil every 5k proved by the car fax. No idea what the dealer out in it but I can definetly handle changing it my self. With such high milage my thought would to try to find a conventional oil with high zddp. Would I be wrong to say? The 4.0 does leak from the valve cover and oil pan gasket but not overly much. plan to do a change ones it hits 216k or winter witch ever comes first. This should dig deeper.
No reason to "dig deeper" it's already been covered.
08-05-2014 07:40 PM
ninjaturtle0 Look at this read on tests done on each brand of oil

Quaker State’s New “Defy” Motor Oil – Lab Test and Wear Test • Speed Talk
08-05-2014 06:05 PM
NYjeeper_TJ Let's dig deeper in to this never ending thread. how about when to change to synthetic and when to not. Say for our resent higher milage jeep buyer like my self with 215k on the clock. As far as I can see the dealer changed the oil every 5k proved by the car fax. No idea what the dealer out in it but I can definetly handle changing it my self. With such high milage my thought would to try to find a conventional oil with high zddp. Would I be wrong to say? The 4.0 does leak from the valve cover and oil pan gasket but not overly much. plan to do a change ones it hits 216k or winter witch ever comes first. This should dig deeper.
08-05-2014 03:19 PM
mrcarcrazy Filter thread that is interesting if you like destruction
Oil Filters - Dissected - Chrysler 300C Forum: 300C & SRT8 Forums

Regarding oil. pick your poison....I stick with major brand...on one car I run Rotella T6, as it tested as the best in that engine by someone with more time/money than I. Other cars I just go with a major brand and change it every 5k or so.

I like Bosch filters....I remember in an old dissection thread they fared well....looks like they still do. Of course there's more to filters than can be seen with the naked eye...but hey it's the only data I have, so I'll run with it until proven incorrect.

Wife's car only gets oil change every 15k or 1x/yr per the manufacturer...I won't keep it past warranty so I don't do it any more than the free ones they provide. Her prev. had 90k on it, no problems with that regimen.
08-05-2014 03:04 PM
06redrubi So much great information here! It's one of those topics that doesn't have one solid answer, though. Just go with what you feel comfortable putting in your vehicle.

I just picked up an 01 4.0 with 84k miles and the oil doesn't look or smell bad. When it's time to change it, I might go with a syn but it'll probably be whatever is on sale. I think the previous owner only ran conventional but either way, I'll be fine.

These 4.0s are great. Just treat them right and they'll return the favor!
08-05-2014 11:35 AM
ninjaturtle0 I read a story of someone using walmart brand oil and it worked out fine
08-05-2014 09:48 AM
Muddeprived
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
No they don't. Paper or cardboard end caps would never hold up to hot pressurized oil. The basic Fram end caps are actually made from a synthetic fiber material that was selected so it could flex/move without tearing away from the pleated filtration media they are bonded to. I spent two days in Fram's engineering and laboratory facilities in Ohio to see for myself how they are designed and tested.
So what is your opinion on Fram filters (which are good or bad) since the visit? I buy my oil at wal-mart but I drive to another place for the filter. It would be nice to get both at one place.
08-05-2014 05:49 AM
info4tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
No they don't. Paper or cardboard end caps would never hold up to hot pressurized oil. The basic Fram end caps are actually made from a synthetic fiber material that was selected so it could flex/move without tearing away from the pleated filtration media they are bonded to. I spent two days in Fram's engineering and laboratory facilities in Ohio to see for myself how they are designed and tested.
Jerry, thx for chiming. I thought one of your previous posts detailed a trip to a filter plant. So, while we're on the subject, which filter do you recommend...with syn n conv oils?
08-05-2014 12:32 AM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majnoon View Post
The orange Frams have paper end caps.
No they don't. Paper or cardboard end caps would never hold up to hot pressurized oil. The basic Fram end caps are actually made from a synthetic fiber material that was selected so it could flex/move without tearing away from the pleated filtration media they are bonded to. I spent two days in Fram's engineering and laboratory facilities in Ohio to see for myself how they are designed and tested.
08-04-2014 10:36 PM
Majnoon The orange Frams have paper end caps. The more expensive ones are better. I go every 5 with synthetic. Easy to remember and not called for in my book to use synthetic but it wasn't exactly popular in 99' when I bought it. Times change. For example my book says ATF 3 for transfer case. It isn't really made anymore. ATF IV is the new best thing. If you change regular I'm sure Dino oil is fine. My 140 k all synthetic it's whole life does not burn a drop and looks like new inside. To each is own. Maintain it and it will treat you well regardless. YouTube Frams. Side by side cutaways are all over. They do suck. I'm running their extra guard ATM. Huge quality jumps from the low end to upper end with them. Enough to make me do a ton of research. Just stay away from the orange ones.
08-04-2014 09:37 PM
info4tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittsburghwrangler View Post

fram filters suck I will never buy anything fram to save my life.
And why might that be?
08-04-2014 08:55 PM
wordsmyth Years back like in 1997 or 98, I pulled into a quick oil change place in Petal, MS one day to have the oil changed in my Ranger truck.

An older fellow was standing outside and we struck up a conversation. I soon discovered he was the owner. At that time he had worked in automotive mechanics for more than 30 years, and his personal venture into self-employment was to open the oil change shop.

I broached the topic of oil brands with this statement, My old man always taught me to stick with one brand of oil and change it every 3,000 miles. I then asked him about his take on oil brands.

Long story made short, his take was that the approach was valid up through the 1960s and into the 70s, but that oils had improved so much since then that an owner could change brands every time he had the oil changed and it would not noticeably impact the serviceability or life of the vehicle.

Regarding synthetics, his observation was that they offer superior engine protection but that the expense was not worth it for the average driver who planned to change his oil every 3,000 miles.

At the time I was driving high (work) mileage so pulling in to have the oil changed every 3K was really an inconvenience, however (I reasoned), if I could push the change interval out to say, 5K or even 8K it would justify the expense for me.

Now (as in today) I am driving around 20K per year to work and back, and I change the (synthetic) oil in my truck every 5K. I have thought of going to one of the new extended interval oils the next time, but getting into the shop every couple of months where they look closely at everything under the hood is also valuable. I work the same plan on my wifes Taurus and on the college kids Explorer before she married and her husband took over maintaining the car.

With reference to my motorcycles, I ran Shell Rotella T synthetic in both an older Gold Wing and a Suzuki DR650. On the Gold Wing I changed the oil and filter every 5K, or once a year, whichever came first. That said, if I were going to make a trip from my home in Alabama to say, Prudhoe Bay, AK, I would start out on fresh oil, change the filter only at the halfway point, top off the oil and not worry about the extra 2,000 or so miles beyond the 8K mark until I got back home. Naturally that illustration is a hypothetical because Im not taking any Gold Wing on any dirt road. Last year I sold it and bought a BMW R1100RT.

Back to the DR650, I changed the oil every 2,500 miles or once a year, whichever came first with it. I also changed the oil filter at every change on the DR. In 2010 I rode the DR most of the length of the Continental Divide Trail (south to north/New Mexico to Montana). That bike was sold earlier this year.

The oil does indeed lube the engine, however, I think that sometimes, we obsess on the oil issue and never consider that the oil and oil filter help take care of what gets past the air filter and into the engine. I sometimes wonder if those who are so anxiety-ridden or fixated (or both) on the oil issue ever think to change the air filter!

Lets hope so.

The bottom line? In my opinion, and whatever kind of mechanical conveyance is in question, just run what you like and change it regularly along with the filter.
08-04-2014 03:18 PM
ninjaturtle0 For the 4.0 flat tappet engine that's based around an old design and has lower mechanical tolerances than today's engines, I use conventional from Valv or VR1 and I change my oil every 3k miles with a Mopar filter.

The manufacture calls for conventional oil for the 4.0 wrangler.

The only time I would use Syn is in freezing cold weather or if that is the manufacture required oil. I use to have an Infiniti G35 coupe and the engine required Syth oil only with premium gas only due to the high performance engine.
08-04-2014 09:38 AM
sparky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumguy View Post
What are thoughts on interval vs. mileage? In other words, I only put about 2,000 miles per year on either the TJ (conventional) or JK (synthetic) and the recommended 6 month interval regardless of mileage seems like overkill.
I think it is too. I go about 5000 a year. When it's in for it's yearly inspection it get the oil done.
08-04-2014 01:10 AM
sccacorrado
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumguy View Post
What are thoughts on interval vs. mileage? In other words, I only put about 2,000 miles per year on either the TJ (conventional) or JK (synthetic) and the recommended 6 month interval regardless of mileage seems like overkill.
Not overkill unless you like the idea of acid and water hanging out in your engine and destroying all the bearings.
08-03-2014 10:07 PM
Pittsburghwrangler
Quote:
Originally Posted by info4tim View Post
Reg oil, Change every 3K use fram filter, n go on vaca with $$ saved!
fram filters suck I will never buy anything fram to save my life.
08-03-2014 10:53 AM
info4tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez58 View Post
Just did the first oil change since getting my 97 Wrangler. I was considering switching to Mobil 1 Synthetic since it was on sale, but ended up staying with standard. Anyone recommend or not recommend this? Btw theres around 78k on the engine.
Reg oil, Change every 3K use fram filter, n go on vaca with $$ saved!
08-03-2014 10:26 AM
Drumguy What are thoughts on interval vs. mileage? In other words, I only put about 2,000 miles per year on either the TJ (conventional) or JK (synthetic) and the recommended 6 month interval regardless of mileage seems like overkill.
06-13-2014 06:07 PM
Pittsburghwrangler
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyfresh View Post
Would you run premium gas in a Honda...?
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...#q=honda%20nsx

depends on the honda
06-12-2014 11:24 PM
H3br3wHamm3r81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrowning View Post
OK, so I plan to switch from M1 to a synthetic blend. Since it has both, it has to be right. Right?
Why bother asking? It's your Jeep. You do what you want.
06-12-2014 09:41 PM
lbrowning OK, so I plan to switch from M1 to a synthetic blend. Since it has both, it has to be right. Right?
06-12-2014 09:06 PM
DWDK
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyfresh View Post
hence there is no plausible reason for you to change it that often... Conventional or otherwise. Why would anyone be opposed to saving money, saving time, and helping the environment all at no risk to your car? Would you run premium gas in a honda...?
x10
06-12-2014 08:59 PM
mannyfresh
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtmini14 View Post
its my money if i want to change my oil every 3000 so what mobil one does not brake down as fast as conv oil bottom line.
Hence there is no plausible reason for you to change it that often... Conventional or otherwise.

Why would anyone be opposed to saving money, saving time, and helping the environment all at no risk to your car? Would you run premium gas in a Honda...?
06-12-2014 08:56 PM
DWDK
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X4X4 View Post
I was in the trade also, I do not work at Jiffy Lube, I make a whole lot more than $12.00 an hour but thanks for the insult. I have several degrees including Masters and plus 30 and I am an A&P and a master mechanic. A little of my handy work awaiting completion of the airframe (by me also), IO360, custom fuel injection, mostly built from Superior PMA parts and painted Viper yellow, also by me: Not everybody here is a teenager, just starting out, I have already finished most of my careers and as I said, I will stay with exactly what I said in my initial post in this thread. I accept you have an opinion, I have stated mine and will stay with it. J
I never said you made $12 but way to be uber sensitive and try and justify your opinion with outdated information. How long you been out of the trade? It's an ever evolving trade and technology that gets updated and changed almost yearly now, hence why a lot of "Mechanics" retire cause they can't keep up or just aren't smart enough too. Maybe not your case, but you did refer yourself as a Mechanic and Mechanics are parts changers around here. I would never let a mechanic fix my vehicle. I would only let a Technician fix my car because they actually know how it works . And your right not all of us are teenagers just starting out. You should sit down with my mentors, true technicians not mechanics that will tell you the same thing as I say did due to there 30+ years in the trade as well and they are still in the trade because they are able to keep up with technology and except it and not be stubborn and think what they learned 30 yrs ago still stands today. If you can't keep up this trade you get out of it, hence why there is such a huge demand for Techs around because all the ole boys couldn't cut it anymore. I've worked with plenty. Just my opinion
06-12-2014 08:36 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtmini14 View Post
its my money if i want to change my oil every 3000 so what mobil one does not brake down as fast as conv oil bottom line.
Walmart, Target, or 7-11 conventional engine oil wouldn't break down at 3,000 miles.
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