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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-18-2011 04:28 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by POS YJ View Post
Agreed, but I will not have someone else cram their religion down my throat either, or take away MY freedoms so they can have theirs. Like I said earlier about trying to have Shariah (sp?) law for Muslims in court. If we are not a Christian nation, then we are not a Muslim nation, Jewish nation, Agnostic etc.
I agree 100%. You abide by the laws of this nation, first and foremost.
05-18-2011 03:18 PM
POS YJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
Very true. There are peaceful Muslims within our borders. By looking out for "ourselves", meaning Americans, we must be looking out for them as well. If we base this war on Religion, if we call Islam the enemy, we declare war on these peaceful Americans. I won't stand for that. It's not what America was founded on and it's not what any true defender of the Constitution would support. Despite what some would have us believe, we are NOT a Christian nation. We were not founded as a Christian nation. We are not a nation made up entirely of Christians. To use religion as a basis for hatred makes us no better than our enemy.
Agreed, but I will not have someone else cram their religion down my throat either, or take away MY freedoms so they can have theirs. Like I said earlier about trying to have Shariah (sp?) law for Muslims in court. If we are not a Christian nation, then we are not a Muslim nation, Jewish nation, Agnostic etc.
05-18-2011 03:15 PM
OsageJeep Freedom of religion is part of the constitution, I am a Christian but I don't think bad about anybody else that's not a Christian. I wouldn't want them to think bad about me so I shouldn't think bad about them. I also don't think we should have prayer in school and over the PA system before sporting events. It alienates whomever may not agree with whatever is being said. If a person wants to stand beside me against a common enemy I would welcome the help, regardless of skin color, race, gender. We can't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. Guilt by association is not applicable here.
05-18-2011 03:00 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by POS YJ View Post
you have to take care of yourself first before you help someone else out.
Very true. There are peaceful Muslims within our borders. By looking out for "ourselves", meaning Americans, we must be looking out for them as well. If we base this war on Religion, if we call Islam the enemy, we declare war on these peaceful Americans. I won't stand for that. It's not what America was founded on and it's not what any true defender of the Constitution would support. Despite what some would have us believe, we are NOT a Christian nation. We were not founded as a Christian nation. We are not a nation made up entirely of Christians. To use religion as a basis for hatred makes us no better than our enemy.
05-18-2011 03:00 PM
POS YJ ^^^^^Well said.
05-18-2011 02:50 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by OsageJeep View Post
There are always crazy people who will surprise you..but I don't think us defending ourselves really counts as peace does it?
Defending yourself is a lot different than taking the offensive. Sometimes though, taking the offensive is the best defensive strategy one can have.
If that makes any sense.
What I mean is I would never seek to harm anyone who wishes no harm on me. Yes, there are those who do wish me harm. They are my enemies and that is without question. If I need to defend myself from my enemies by striking first, so be it. But in this case, my enemy is clever. Not all who look like my enemy ARE my enemy, and surely, some who look like a friend, are the enemy. Things aren't as black and white, as good and evil as the used to be. It's getting harder and harder to tell a friend from an enemy at times.
On topic, there are plenty of other people that wish me harm as well. I would not wish to alienate a potential ally (peaceful Muslims) in the pursuit of my enemies (the extremists).
I do feel the peaceful Muslims need to take a stand against the extremists, but by doing so, they throw their lot in with the rest of us, and against Islam in the eyes of the extremists. It's not a no-win situation, but any victory in this war will only come through great expense, literally and figuratively.
05-18-2011 02:46 PM
POS YJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by OsageJeep View Post
There are always crazy people who will surprise you..but I don't think us defending ourselves really counts as peace does it?
No, I would rather error on the side of caution. It's kind of like what a firefighter or paramedic would have to deal with, you have to take care of yourself first before you help someone else out. If you put yourself in a bad situation and injure yourself, you aren't going to be helping anyone.

And to bring this back on topic a little bit. IMHO, Obama is a Muslim, Christian, Jew, African-American, White-American, Oil driller, and Greeny. It just depends on the day.
05-18-2011 02:38 PM
OsageJeep There are always crazy people who will surprise you..but I don't think us defending ourselves really counts as peace does it?
05-18-2011 02:36 PM
POS YJ Mr. Sinister, we probably have very similar views but sometimes it's hard to express emotion over the net.
05-18-2011 02:27 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by OsageJeep View Post
Wish in one hand and shit in another. You can wish for peace all you want but wars have been going on for thousands of years and I'm sure we are not the first people to want peace. If I wish for peace and somebody else wishes to kill me and is determined to, whats going to prevail?
To quote myself: "I'm realistic, we need to defend ourselves from our enemies."
Like the man said, speak softly, but carry a big stick.
My entire point was to KNOW who the enemy is, not who the nutjobs say they are.
05-18-2011 02:24 PM
OsageJeep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister

You're goddamn right. The moment you stop wishing for peace is the moment you doom yourself to eternal violence. I'm realistic, we need to defend ourselves from our enemies. My issue is with those that paint in broad strokes.
Wish in one hand and shit in another. You can wish for peace all you want but wars have been going on for thousands of years and I'm sure we are not the first people to want peace. If I wish for peace and somebody else wishes to kill me and is determined to, whats going to prevail?
05-18-2011 02:08 PM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by POS YJ View Post
From your first post you really just sounded a lot like Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" .

You're goddamn right. The moment you stop wishing for peace is the moment you doom yourself to eternal violence. I'm realistic, we need to defend ourselves from our enemies. My issue is with those that paint in broad strokes.
05-18-2011 01:53 PM
POS YJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
Really, that's all you had to say.
From your first post you really just sounded a lot like Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" And as I stated before, there are a lot of good Muslims who do not want to kill all of the infidels. But I do not live in fairy tail land either. We have a great country here, and it has been great because of what our founding fathers set into place. If people don't want to live by our rules, don't come here. If you want to attack us, fine, hopefully we will attack back twice as hard. I'm not going to believe that every Muslim is good, nor am I going to think that every Muslim is bad. This topic is so difficult because it is not just about religion, it's also about government, money (or lack there of), and cultural differences. I will not accept someone elses culture if they will not accept mine. I believe that many of our problems abroad are caused because of political correctness, not the other way around.
05-18-2011 12:17 PM
sevenservices and, there lies the problem. To the good people, the bad are bad. But to the bad people, the good are bad. Reminds me of star wars.
05-18-2011 11:54 AM
Mr. Sinister
Quote:
Originally Posted by POS YJ View Post
Bad people need to be punished, and good people shall remain free.
Really, that's all you had to say.
05-18-2011 11:47 AM
POS YJ “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” (Sura 5, verse 51).

“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah DESTROY them; how they are turned away!” (Sura 9, verse 30).

“And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.” (Sura 2, verse 120).

“And KILL them (the unbelievers) wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.” (Sura 2, verse 191).

“Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.” (Sura 3, verse 28).

“And guard yourselves against the fire which has been prepared for the unbelievers.” (Sura 3, verse 131)

“And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open ENEMY.” (Sura 4, verse 101).

“O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).” (Sura 9, verse 123).

“Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and shackles and a burning fire.” (Sura 76, verse 4).

“O you who believe! if you obey a party from among those who have been given the Book (The Jews and Christians), they will turn you back as unbelievers after you have believed.” (Sura 3, verse 100).

“And their taking usury (interests on money) though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the unbelievers from among them a painful chastisement.” (Sura 4. verse 161).

“Surely Allah has cursed the unbelievers (Jews, Christians and followers of other faiths) and has prepared for them a burning fire.” (Sura 33, verse 64).

“And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Apostle, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.” (Sura 48, verse 13).


Now don't get me wrong, I know there are many peaceful Muslims. It is the radicals that believe these verses, and strap bombs to themselves and their children that I am worried about. There are tens of thousands of these radicals in the middle east and taking over Europe as well. They live by these verses and want to kill us (meaning all non-Muslims). They are using the all our pansy assed legislation against us, and groups like the ACLU will gladly defend them. Have you heard that they are trying to use Shariah (sp?) law in AMERICAN courtrooms? We have our own rules that us and others need to follow while in this country. If someone just had the nads to actually enforce something called the Constitution, and not worry about hurting someones feelings. /obama voice on/: "Now let be be real clear.......um....um.....um...Not all Muslims are bad, but.....um.........um......not all Muslims are good either." /obama voice off/:
I think that can be said about _____________ too.
Bad people need to be punished, and good people shall remain free.
05-18-2011 11:19 AM
Mr. Sinister Every single quote, taken out of context. If you don't like the man's politics, fine, I personally don't like his politics any more or any less than any other politician. But to accuse the man of being something he isn't to arouse the prejudices in others is inexcusable.
Even if he was, so what? Is this who Americans are now, terrified of the big, bad Muslims?
All the anti-Muslim folks have the same thing in common: They don't actually know any REAL Muslims. Well, I do. None of them want to kill me. They want the same thing I do. To be left in peace to live their lives. They're good, hard working Americans. They laugh at the same jokes I do. They get upset at the same things I do. My wife teaches Muslim kids, who are the same as every other kid. Which brings up a good point. Kids don't have the same cowardly prejudices adults do. The kids treat their Muslim peers as equals. It's not until ignorant adults influence them, do they develop these prejudices.
What's the difference between the extremists wanting to kill Americans, and Americans wanting to kill Muslims? Hatred is born from cowardice. That's all this is: Pure cowardice. If you want all Muslims out of this country, I want YOU out of this country.
05-18-2011 10:39 AM
POS YJ Terrorism has no color, no race and no particular religion. Terrorists are among all walks of life and have no regard for human life whatsoever.[/QUOTE]


True, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while, but regular squirrels find them more often.
05-18-2011 10:35 AM
sevenservices Islam is not the bad guy, its the radicals. Radical islamists, radical Christians, radical Satan worshipers, they come in all walks of life. Shoot, even our federal building in Oklahoma city was blown up by a white guy who would frequent a house about 30 miles away from me here in Michigan. (McVeigh info)

Terrorism has no color, no race and no particular religion. Terrorists are among all walks of life and have no regard for human life whatsoever.

"A man with nothing left to lose is a very dangerous man and his energy/anger can be focused toward a common/righteous goal."
05-18-2011 10:20 AM
Jeeper
05-18-2011 04:57 AM
bwdenman
Interesting Obama Video

YouTube - Obama Admits He Is A Muslim

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