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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-20-2007 05:52 PM
skeeter "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."~Benjamin Franklin

The war on terror could be conducted without investing even more power in an already bloated federal government. Our fed.gov was never meant to be the behemoth it is today and yet we're all too ready to feed it more because the big bad boogy man scares us, doesn't matter that you stand more risk of being struck by lightening than killed by a terrorist.
I don't have any problem with going after those that attacked us but leave my freedom, my liberty and my privacy alone.
09-20-2007 11:31 AM
sgnellett "1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

After we were hit on September 11 2001, we were in a state of national shock. Less than six weeks later, on October 26 2001, the USA Patriot Act was passed by a Congress that had little chance to debate it; many said that they scarcely had time to read it. We were told we were now on a "war footing"; we were in a "global war" against a "global caliphate" intending to "wipe out civilisation".
"

Uh, yeah dummy, they have said repeatedly that they intend to kill us. We don't need to make it up, just pay attention!

"2. Create a gulag

Once you have got everyone scared, the next step is to create a prison system outside the rule of law (as Bush put it, he wanted the American detention centre at Guantánamo Bay to be situated in legal "outer space") - where torture takes place.
"

One reason, it keeps the ACLU (All Criminals Love Us) out!

"3. Develop a thug caste

..however, after Hurricane Katrina, the Department of Homeland Security hired and deployed hundreds of armed private security guards in New Orleans...
"

Private security guards attempting to maintain order when the local law enforcement was unable to do so due to widespread looting and dirtbags shooting at cops and military. This is the best you've got? Sorry, no cigar, next issue..

"4. Set up an internal surveillance system

In 2005 and 2006, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau wrote in the New York Times about a secret state programme to wiretap citizens' phones, read their emails and follow international financial transactions, it became clear to ordinary Americans that they, too, could be under state scrutiny.
"

Conveniently neglects to mention that these actions are only authorized when they involve known terrorist operatives, makes it a little different issue, huh?

"5. Harass citizens' groups

infiltrate and harass citizens' groups..American Civil Liberties Union reports that thousands of ordinary American anti-war, environmental and other groups have been infiltrated by agents: a secret Pentagon database includes more than four dozen peaceful anti-war meetings, rallies or marches by American citizens in its category of 1,500 "suspicious incidents". The equally secret Counterintelligence Field Activity (Cifa) agency of the Department of Defense has been gathering information about domestic organisations engaged in peaceful political activities... A little-noticed new law has redefined activism such as animal rights protests as "terrorism".
"

Yeah, peaceful, right, while they plan and threaten to kill US Soldiers and/or destroy military equipment and provide support to our enemy. And when they start burning down ski lodges and car dealerships to protect a mouse or an owl or a fish, sorry, you ARE a terrorist!

"6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

pro-democracy activists in China, such as Wei Jingsheng, being arrested and released many times. In a closing or closed society there is a "list" of dissidents and opposition leaders: you are targeted in this way once you are on the list, and it is hard to get off the list
."

She compares this to a few people being put on no-fly watch lists by over zealous screeners? Again, not the same ballpark. And as for Kennedy, don't get me started, he should still be in prison for negligent vehicular homicide, not jetting all over the country as a Senator...

"7. Target key individuals

Bush supporters in state legislatures in several states put pressure on regents at state universities to penalise or fire academics who have been critical of the administration. As for civil servants, the Bush administration has derailed the career of one military lawyer who spoke up for fair trials for detainees, while an administration official publicly intimidated the law firms that represent detainees pro bono by threatening to call for their major corporate clients to boycott them.

Most recently, the administration purged eight US attorneys for what looks like insufficient political loyalty."

Oh yes, how dare that evil president have his minions publicly humiliate scumbag lawyers who defend our enemy at the expense of our own nations security. As for the US Attorneys, they all work for the President, he is free to fire any or all of them anytime he sees fit. These eight were among a larger group of Clinton appointees (who, by the way replaced them all at the start of his term, as most Presidents do on taking ofice) who were allowed to stay on initially, but were not performing well enough and were let go.

"8. Control the press

You won't have a shutdown of news in modern America - it is not possible. But you can have, as Frank Rich and Sidney Blumenthal have pointed out, a steady stream of lies polluting the news well. What you already have is a White House directing a stream of false information that is so relentless that it is increasingly hard to sort out truth from untruth. In a fascist system, it's not the lies that count but the muddying. When citizens can't tell real news from fake, they give up their demands for accountability bit by bit.
"

This might be the funniest, because it is such a crock! The media in this country has never been more violently opposed to our government, and has no issue with repeatedly lying or covering up anything to make the case for their side. Dan Rather ring a bell?

"9. Dissent equals treason

And here is where the circle closes: most Americans do not realise that since September of last year - when Congress wrongly, foolishly, passed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 - the president has the power to call any US citizen an "enemy combatant". He has the power to define what "enemy combatant" means. The president can also delegate to anyone he chooses in the executive branch the right to define "enemy combatant" any way he or she wants and then seize Americans accordingly
."

If only this were actually happening, I can think of a few hundred in Washington to start that list with! Seriously, treason and espionage are serious crimes, and they are happening, and are going un-prosecuted mainly because of terrorist sympathizers like this Islamo-facist apologist douche-bag!

"10. Suspend the rule of law

The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 gave the president new powers over the national guard. This means that in a national emergency - which the president now has enhanced powers to declare - he can send Michigan's militia to enforce a state of emergency that he has declared in Oregon, over the objections of the state's governor and its citizens.

..the New York Times editorialised about this shift: "A disturbing recent phenomenon in Washington is that laws that strike to the heart of American democracy have been passed in the dead of night ... Beyond actual insurrection, the president may now use military troops as a domestic police force in response to a natural disaster, a disease outbreak, terrorist attack or any 'other condition'."
"

OK, so these are the same people who were complaining that the federal government didn't send in the Army to restore order after Katrina? This is meant to be used as a back up after local efforts to efforts to control lunatics have failed. Is there one instance where it has been mis-used? No, of course not, but don't let the facts get in the way of your leftist rant, Naomi!
09-20-2007 11:31 AM
Odhinn I definately agree with kg4kpg on this one. In order for someone to make it to that level of politics they need to be corrupt and be able to lie without flinching. Our founding fathers would turn over in their graves if they could see what politicians have turn into. All we can do is defend what is ours and make sure we never sink to the level they are at.
09-20-2007 11:28 AM
JCS05Rubi my politics start at 600 yards, and get better closer. The majority of americans gave up it seems. Untill something drastic happends, voting for fred thompson is my last political move, besides defending my own land, and living how I wish on said land.
09-20-2007 11:12 AM
Levinoss
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg4kpg View Post
Am I even still on topic???
Give or take yes

You do make a good point, is it just me or does everyone seem to pay attention to whos running for president but a good portion dont vote? Why follow whats going on but not vote, yet piss and moan about it down the road?

~Lev
09-20-2007 11:09 AM
kg4kpg I believe our country is spinning out of control and can only get worse. All of the political parties spend all of their time (and our tax dollars) tryiing to make each other look bad, yet people still vote on these clowns. As good as we got it, our country is being torn apart from the inside and a lot of americans are wearing blinders. As much as I don't want to see any terrorist activity on our land again, it will take just that to make people come around and say "back the truck up!, we're americans and we're not going to take it any more!" People spend tons of time yelling about the leadership, but none do anything positive by writing their senators and representatives. Everytime I get in an argument with someone I ask if they wrote or called their senator and almost every time I get back a "naw, won't make a difference". Bull crap! Over half the country doesn't even vote. Everyone want's as long as they don't have to give back. Am I even still on topic???
09-20-2007 11:05 AM
OdhinnsChick Bush + Clinton = even worse mess than we are in now.
09-20-2007 10:18 AM
Levinoss
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg4kpg View Post
Where do these commies come from! He's just not backing down from them on the war. I still say what I want, do what I want, eat and drink what I want. Classic lefty, can only blame but never offer solutions.
I believe its not only the bush administration she has a beef with, she also feels Hilary Clinton might be a future issue as well. What do you think about that?

I found this video pretty darn funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os_QpmwORXU

~Lev
09-20-2007 07:40 AM
foxinthemudd agreed, and don't get me started on the green 'I cant even agree with my other party members' party
09-20-2007 07:12 AM
kg4kpg Where do these commies come from! He's just not backing down from them on the war. I still say what I want, do what I want, eat and drink what I want. Classic lefty, can only blame but never offer solutions.
09-19-2007 11:45 PM
Levinoss
Fascist America, In 10 easy steps

Naomi Wolf was on the Colbert Show tonight, promoting her new book. I found it entertaining to say the least.

This pretty much sums up what her book talks about. (Read the article)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Quote:
From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking them all
Youtube videos of her talking about the 10 steps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO8C_7WG0rc

I havent quite decided on how I feel on this subject as of yet but I'd like to hear what you guys think about the subject?

Are we moving in that direction?

~Lev

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