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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-02-2007 03:14 PM
nregas1
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyDolly View Post
I had major DW with my stock GSA's. Even after rotating and balancing them the wobble continued. I recently purchased a set of 31X10.5 Cooper STT's and the wobble is gone! My advice is to borrow a buddy's set of wheels and tires and go for a spin. This might not fix the problem, but it's worth a try!
x2!
10-02-2007 02:54 PM
FuzzyDolly I had major DW with my stock GSA's. Even after rotating and balancing them the wobble continued. I recently purchased a set of 31X10.5 Cooper STT's and the wobble is gone! My advice is to borrow a buddy's set of wheels and tires and go for a spin. This might not fix the problem, but it's worth a try!
09-24-2007 08:02 PM
nregas1 10-4, will do.
Funny, but that's sort of why I bought this full lift. I got the BB b/c I didn't want to deal with all the extra work and parts that came with a full lift. Figured since I'm having to deal with it anyway, I may as well have the lift I want.
09-24-2007 07:30 PM
04blackunlimited yeah I'm almost to the point of buying a new lift and seeing if that helps lol J/K. Thats almost the same thing that I did was put a worn out set of thornies on and its almost gone (well atleast its more tolerable now!!!)
Good luck with the lift better post some pics
09-24-2007 07:22 PM
nregas1 Yeah, the BFG AT's are what I sold b/c I had such bad DW with them. Put on my worn out Pro Comp 33 MT's on black steelies and eliminated about 95% of it. ??? I'll probably be entering into a new DW investigation in next week or so when I install my new lift. Keeping my fingers crossed.
09-24-2007 07:14 PM
04blackunlimited yeah I was reading up on that, its has alot of good info. I think I will get the tires road balanced after I get the lowering kit.
About the thornies they actually have made the wobble less than the stockers. But I think I will still get them force balanced, even though I got a price on BFG's AT's lol
09-24-2007 07:10 PM
nregas1 Sound like that is a good bed. I'm bettin those thornies may be a problem. I have a business aquaintance who is mgr at a Discount Tire. I was exploring getting some new MT's and that I was looking at Swamper, MT, GY, and BFG. He said he could order me anything I wanted but said he has lots of "quality control issues" with the MT's and Swampers and about a 90% "failure" rate on getting a FULL set of fully round tires - saying only about 10% of the time would he get a full set of tires that had no problems being out of round. So that would be my first step to get tires/wheel fully ruled out. I think your suspension should be fine if you have your toe set properly. I'm sure there must be some others on here that have some other suggestions. If you haven't already done so, you ought to read this write up on DW. http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/dw.html It's really informative.
09-24-2007 06:59 PM
04blackunlimited yeah I got the cam bolts the first alignment and had them put it as far on the low end as you can i think I am at 5.2 where the stock tolerances are 6-8 i believe. Thats why I am so lost as to where to go from here. Maybe the road force balance is the next step
09-24-2007 06:53 PM
nregas1 I would agree with that. You haven't changed the geometry up enough with a BB to require CA's. IF anything, you may need some cam bolts on the LCA's. That is my next purchase. However, that'll run you about $30-$40 plus labor during the alignment. You may want to go ahead and get you some LCA's ($150-$250) to improve your current situation and have you set for Phase II of your lift down the road.

Although many alignment shops will try to push DW blame toward tires/wheels, there is a lot of truth to it also. First thing I did was have my tires road-force balanced. If they have no idea what your talking about, move on to the next tire shop. Also specifically instructed them to use weights on BOTH sides of the wheel. Many places (Discount, NTB...) often only place weights on the inside of the rim for asthetics. See how that works - I've seen several DW issues resolved at this point with little money spent. Also make sure if you have any tires with any "cupping" on the tread. If so, get those moved to the rear. Lastly, (yes, it sounds dumb, but...) make sure everything up front is fully lubed. I learned this the hard way. Gave the dealer the benefit of the doubt when having my oil/lube done so went several months without checking it. Found out during my DW investigation they hadn't been lubing shit. These are the easy things to get out of the way so when you go to the alignment shop and they say, "you just need your tires balanced", you can promptly tell them all you have done. At that point you may learn how much they know about jeeps and if they are the right shop for you. I've seen and heard of many guys (myself included) with all the same problems, wasted money at the dealership and alignment shops who couldn't fix the problem and kept blaming the tires and all sorts of goofy crap. Then take it to the right off-road shop and they have it fixed with a couple of cam bolts in about 15 minutes. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Sucks about the Amish surroundings and how far you'll have to go. Maybe they have a good chuckwagon/buggy woodsmith who can whittle you up some nice adjustable LCA's.
09-24-2007 04:56 PM
04blackunlimited
Quote:
Originally Posted by nregas1 View Post
Both good links, I was on my way to getting those when I saw jherrin already posted them. jherrin is correct and you are correct in questioning the shop. DW has nothing to do with vibes. I've been really frustrated with several alignment shops in the past 6 months over mis-diagnosis issues like that. I can't decide if they are just incompetent or lazy. Prob both. Not sure on the alignment shop you chose, but call a reputable local offroad shop and find out where they have their rigs aligned after they install lifts. These shops usually know right where to look and make quick work of it.


Yeah I think that I will try to get ahold of one of the shops in the area. Bad thing is that I live in the heart of Amish country ..... Closest place that will have a reputable 4x4 shop is about a hour away which sucks.... I was just hoping that there is something I could do before I would hit a 3rd shop.. The last time I called RE they said that there is no way that I would need lower control arms with the 2"BB, does that sound right... Sorry if I seem to be beating this DW thread, I'm just really discouraged with the problems... Thanks again guys!!!!!!!!
09-24-2007 04:27 PM
nregas1 Both good links, I was on my way to getting those when I saw jherrin already posted them. jherrin is correct and you are correct in questioning the shop. DW has nothing to do with vibes. I've been really frustrated with several alignment shops in the past 6 months over mis-diagnosis issues like that. I can't decide if they are just incompetent or lazy. Prob both. Not sure on the alignment shop you chose, but call a reputable local offroad shop and find out where they have their rigs aligned after they install lifts. These shops usually know right where to look and make quick work of it.
09-24-2007 03:58 PM
jherrin215 "Here is the thread: http://www.wranglerforum.com/yj-chat...bble-2532.html

And here is the link in the thread with the info in it!!: http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/dw.html
09-24-2007 03:55 PM
jherrin215 No, driveline angles can't cause steering wheel problems. Driveline angles will give you vibration, but not DW. There is a good DW diagnosis thread on here somewhere, let me see if I can find it.
09-24-2007 02:15 PM
04blackunlimited Well I just got the Jeep back from a different alignment shop and they think that it is a driveline issue????? Could this be right? So I thought what the hell and ordered the transfer case lowering kit... Does this sound right at all. Is the difference of pinion angles throwing things off that much that I get the DW???????
09-23-2007 07:26 PM
04blackunlimited holy crap 650? Hell I take 500 for mine lol
09-21-2007 01:32 PM
nregas1 stock size but were bfg. and wheels were stock.
09-21-2007 01:30 PM
jherrin215 You got 650 for stock wheels and tires?!?! DAMN!!
09-21-2007 01:09 PM
nregas1 Sold mine on craigslist for $650 and it paid for me new lift
09-21-2007 12:13 PM
04blackunlimited
Quote:
Originally Posted by nregas1 View Post
Had similar experience. Had terrible DW with my 31 BFG AT's. Switched back to my worn out 33 MT's and DW is about 95% gone.


Anyone want a set of stock tires and rims with a good set of goodyears gsa's? lol
09-21-2007 11:54 AM
nregas1
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04blackunlimited View Post
Funny thing is that when I had the thornies on it I didnt get the death wobble. Then I switched the tires back to my stockers and I have it. lol
Had similar experience. Had terrible DW with my 31 BFG AT's. Switched back to my worn out 33 MT's and DW is about 95% gone.
09-21-2007 06:23 AM
04blackunlimited
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzTJ View Post
It may have something to do with those ridiculous Thornbird tires.


Funny thing is that when I had the thornies on it I didnt get the death wobble. Then I switched the tires back to my stockers and I have it. lol
09-21-2007 01:58 AM
jherrin215 I agree with that!! If you have death wobble the first time you should immediately feel a warm lump in the seat of your pants!! That's the sure fire way to know if it is DW. I think mine just showed up because of the sway bar being disconnected. I haven't had it happen again since I reconnected it.
09-21-2007 12:49 AM
nregas1 You won't "think" you have DW when it happens.
09-21-2007 12:13 AM
jduran did u fix the problem ?? i think i have the dw it only happens at 50mph
09-20-2007 08:06 PM
ygohome be carefull with that though... would be terrible if the welds should break or if they rip apart or would just plain drive horrible if the length wasn't adjusted properly. Cam bolts aren't expensive (under $10 or $15) if you want to keep your stock arms.
09-20-2007 07:55 PM
jherrin215 Thanks for your reply. That makes sense 100%. I have thought about getting some stock arms and lengthening then and bracing them internally then installing the modified arms instead of buying new ones. The only problem is figuring out how much to lengthen them. But if i did do too much I could always trash them and put my stock ones back on!!
09-20-2007 07:35 PM
ygohome if your jeep isn't having anymore problems then I wouldn't change anything. But regarding your question...the front axle is a little different than the rear... in the rear, caster is not involved so the upper arms can be lengthened/adjusted to point the pinion directly at the tcase, if you have a cv driveshaft.

And in the front, your correct, the pinion/driveshaft angle does take presidence over the caster angle... but we have to lengthen the front lower arms at least a little to get some of the caster angle back. Its a fine line to balance between pinion angle and caster angle which is why I leave it to my jeep mechanic/alignment specialist and I don't mess with those measurements myself (which makes me a total web wheeler).

But on my jeep I have 3.5" coils which is about the same height your sitting at. All of my arms were stock and I had pretty bad bump steeer/death wobble or whatever its called. I also had removed my front sway bar completely previously so maybe thats why you only experience deathwobble with the sway bar removed. To fix my problem though I didn't want to add the swaybar back on... so my mechanic installed adjustable front lower arms and lengthened them just a little longer than the stock lower arms. THe death wobble and bump steer were completely gone even without the front swaybar. There was a limit on how much he could lengthen the front lowers though because he didn't want to negatively affect the front pinion angle... again, pinion angle takes presidence over caster.
09-20-2007 05:01 PM
jherrin215 That is the only time it has ever done anything. I have had it like that for about a month now and never had any hint of any type of wobble. I drove it that day with the sway bar disconnected for about 5 miles and it went nuts on me. I have driven it about 30 miles since I reconnected the sway bar and nothing again. Also I thought that when you replaced the lower CA's they were shorter and the uppers were a tad bit longer to help twist the axle housing more upright to line the drive shaft up better??
09-20-2007 03:40 PM
ygohome
Quote:
Originally Posted by jherrin215 View Post
... I have 1 3/4 spacers and 2 inch teraflex springs... As I was coming back to the house I hit a reflector in the middle of the road and that joker went wild. I about crapped my pants when it first started happening then I figured out what it was...
I bet that crazy steering is from your caster angle or lack of it. you have over 3.5" of lift over stock with stock length front arms, is that right? If so then your caster angle is not set to what it should be. By adding the taller coils and spacers the C or inner knuckles are straight up and down... like this "|"... when they should be at an angle like this "/"... replacing the front lower arms with slightly longer aftermarket arms or adjustable arms or cam bolts will correct that angle.

With the knuckles straight verticle, any little bump in the road causes the steering to go crazy.
09-20-2007 03:34 PM
jherrin215 Yeah I have heard numerous times that unbalanced tires are the #1 cause of DW. Having thornbirds I would assume that there is a good chance they aren't balanced perfectly. That could be a great amount of your problem!!
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