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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-11-2012 07:57 PM
cavsvet74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepstin View Post
Tow Ratings Finally Pass the Sniff Test - The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) - Automobile Magazine

Found this link. We're all off the mark. Apparently, applying a tow rating is a fairly involved process. Being I work for a manufacturer, I figured there had to be more than just obvious numbers of the vehicle.

Anyway, thank you everyone for your responses.
Since, (according to the article) powertrain cooling capacity and handling charicteristics during cornering and breaking are strongly influential to a vehicles towing performance, I can't believe they allow any 07-11 JK with an automatic transmission to tow anything.
09-11-2012 06:32 PM
dwelsh I bought a 2012 as well and thought I would shed some light on the subject. A. a 373 and 4.10 gearing has more teeth and less likely to damage the rear end. Liberty has 3.73 gears and can pull 5k, with that said I have not seen issues with a dana 44 and 3.21 blowing up towing. I lifted mine off the ground to check and surely my unlimited automatic has 3.21 gears. I told the dealer I was towing about 3600 lbs ( my pop-up empty is 2800) and they had no issue with it since I have a trailer brake. I think when they wrote these specs they were thinking that most jeep owners lift and put on 35's or 37's and most people do not buy trailer brake controllers! Making sharp turn and braking can send the jeep out of control, after all they only weight 4100 lbs, your rear tires have 3500 lbs pushing the read end in the other direction of your turn. I owned a Ram 1500 and had a few times towing a boat and needed to avoid some driver on the road, that 7k lbs helped. by the way the hitch mount and bar was the same as my old 07 GC (thickness and weld spots) and it's mounted to the frame, I checked. This is not an issue. I don't blame jeep for the light rating, all the parts are there for 5000 lbs but the quick steering and how light they are would make for some big lawsuits if they said 5,000 lbs and the driver doesn't know how to tow. Maybe I am way off base but I only pull a few times a year and if they go I have a warrenty after all the automatic with the 3.21 gears is NOT rated! (Not too many owners would check the gears by twisting the drive shaft.)
04-02-2012 03:47 PM
Jeepstin No. The link just shows how the manufacturers apply tow ratings. There was a lot of exchanges (most inaccurate) so I thought I would share what I have found.
03-31-2012 07:18 AM
OutlawJK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepstin
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...t/viewall.html

Found this link. We're all off the mark. Apparently, applying a tow rating is a fairly involved process. Being I work for a manufacturer, I figured there had to be more than just obvious numbers of the vehicle.

Anyway, thank you everyone for your responses.
Link not working
So did they raise the limit?
03-31-2012 06:57 AM
Jeepstin http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...t/viewall.html

Found this link. We're all off the mark. Apparently, applying a tow rating is a fairly involved process. Being I work for a manufacturer, I figured there had to be more than just obvious numbers of the vehicle.

Anyway, thank you everyone for your responses.
02-21-2012 12:59 PM
MiltsJeep It's not all about the hitch, in fact it's mostly about the rear axle gear ratio. Simply put the higher the ratio the better but that does not mean that just because you have a high ratio you can tow more than the rating. To tow up to 3500 with a 4dr 4wd version you need at least the 3.7 rear axle ratio.
10-25-2011 01:10 PM
cousineddie
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
That's why they put brakes on trailers.

Wow....Thanks oilwell1415, I would have never thought of that.
10-24-2011 03:01 PM
oilwell1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
The whole thing HAS to be because of how the hitch is mounted to the frame. And IMO, the numbers are flat out wrong.

Go look up the numbers for a 2011/12 Grand Cherokee.
t
he engine (3.6), tranny (5spd auto), axle (3.09) and tire size (30.52) somehow allows it to pull 5000 pounds.

Yes...the SAME engine, SAME tranny, even shorter (numerically that is vs the 3.21) axle ratio and with tire size that that is larger than the pure Sport, but smaller than the Sport S/Sahara/Rubi.
That's been my feeling ever since I first saw this mentioned in another thread. I think the wheelbase of the JK has something to do with it as well since the JKU has a higher tow rating than the JK even though the hardware is the same.
10-24-2011 02:16 PM
panthermark The whole thing HAS to be because of how the hitch is mounted to the frame. And IMO, the numbers are flat out wrong.

Go look up the numbers for a 2011/12 Grand Cherokee.
t
he engine (3.6), tranny (5spd auto), axle (3.09) and tire size (30.52) somehow allows it to pull 5000 pounds.

Yes...the SAME engine, SAME tranny, even shorter (numerically that is vs the 3.21) axle ratio and with tire size that that is larger than the pure Sport, but smaller than the Sport S/Sahara/Rubi.
10-24-2011 01:45 PM
oilwell1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousineddie View Post
I've always been told that the towing limit is set by how much the vehicle in question can stop safely.

That's why they put brakes on trailers.
10-24-2011 01:28 PM
cousineddie I've always been told that the towing limit is set by how much the vehicle in question can stop safely.

08-31-2011 11:10 AM
DryBones
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
It's not a HP thing. The 3.7 in the Liberty is 210 HP.

yeah, and mine struggles to pull a 2800lb camper. Don't believe the 5000lb hype on a Libby. Going to regear at some point to 4.10's and see if that helps at all considering I am lifted and running 245/75/16 tires.
08-29-2011 08:58 AM
Osage Orange .....or would a solid frame hitch design get you hung up on a rock somewhere?
08-29-2011 08:56 AM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osage Orange View Post
Soooo with all the reasons for a low tow rating such as connecting points/ hitch design, brakes, and lack of stability.....why hasn't an aftermarket engineering genius come up with an all inclusive towing kit that upgrades the tow rating for those that just need "a little more"?
Liability.
08-29-2011 08:51 AM
Osage Orange Soooo with all the reasons for a low tow rating such as connecting points/ hitch design, brakes, and lack of stability.....why hasn't an aftermarket engineering genius come up with an all inclusive towing kit that upgrades the tow rating for those that just need "a little more"?
08-29-2011 06:12 AM
daggo66 It's not a HP thing. The 3.7 in the Liberty is 210 HP.
08-28-2011 10:59 PM
off a cough
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark
I think the spec sheet is BS and the vehicle limited by the hitch design. My little Libby gasser has a factory installed a 7 pin, class III hitch. If that wheelbase/engine/tranny can tow 5000 pounds, a 2012 JKU even with 3.21's can tow 5000 pounds. But...the Libby's hitch is attached to the frame-rails....
The Libby is unibody, as is the Grand Cherokee. The GC has the same drivetrain as the 2012 and tows 5000lb with a similar wheelbase.

Considering Jeep's 2012 "user guide" gives towing info for the 3.8, I'm still of the belief that this towing nonsense is just sloppiness on the behalf of Chrysler and not necessarily based on anything else.
08-28-2011 10:43 PM
panthermark I think the spec sheet is BS and the vehicle limited by the hitch design. My little Libby gasser has a factory installed a 7 pin, class III hitch. If that wheelbase/engine/tranny can tow 5000 pounds, a 2012 JKU even with 3.21's can tow 5000 pounds. But...the Libby's hitch is attached to the frame-rails....
08-28-2011 07:24 PM
InvertChaos There isn't even a standard for tow ratings btw. There was an article about it in 4wheeler magazine. I'm positive that a JKU can tow more than 2000lbs or whatever.
08-28-2011 07:20 PM
Barrie Play nice people, okay? Thanks
08-28-2011 07:15 PM
KSCRUDE Thanks for the compliment, I am not at liberty to express anymore on the subject. Enough said, have a good evening.
08-28-2011 06:35 PM
oilwell1415 Thank you for the sermon KSCRUDE. I'm sure we are all better people because of you! Surely you have better things to do than play internet police. Much worse than pi$$ is said on this board every day. Heaven forbid you may find a post that says crap.
08-28-2011 02:23 PM
JeeperJake re: "In the engineering world we refer to this sort of thing as "pi$$ poor design".

I appreciate the clarity of this explanation.

In consideration with many other Wrangler features, the observations by KSCrude and others, along with my own astute analysis, demonstrates yet another factor in the monkey-dance trying to understand the difference between "specification sheet" and "speculation sheet" that leaves so misunderstanding.
08-28-2011 12:20 PM
KSCRUDE We don't sugar coat nuttin out in these here parts. The term you are all groping for and the one most common in real Americana is (southern engineered or southern rigged) although we are not this politically correct in our choice of words. But at least we (I) don't have to us profanity (pi$$) to get a simple point across. Back on a more related to this thread topic. I have a 2011 explorer and it Has almost the same engine size (3.5) HP (290) and torque about the same as the jeep Jesus motor. And it doesn't even have a frame, built on the unibody tarus car chassis and it has a tow rating of(drumroll please) 5000 pounds! I would imagine that the new 12 jeep soccer mom 4 door suv, with that massive frame and all could easily tow 5000 pounds. I don't think the hitch is that weak of a link and that poorly engineered for that matter. By the way the gear ratio on the ford is 3.08 and it is using a six speed select shift auto. Probably about the same weight and wheelbase as the jku.
08-28-2011 11:22 AM
Up Hill Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
2012's have the same axle gearing available as 07-11. The hitch is exactly the same for a 2 door as a 4. The difference is wheelbase.
Except the 2012 auto gets 3.21 gears standard, while 2007-11 autos have 3.73 standard.

The charts, probably just copy & paste from earlier models, failed to add towing specs for the auto with 3.21. But, it's isn't hard to project that they are 1000/100.

Don't buy a Jeep for your main, mid to heavy weight tow rig.
08-28-2011 10:44 AM
Jim M
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
...In the engineering world we refer to this sort of thing as "pi$$ poor design". It's an industry term.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the industry term of art. As an outsider, and strictly an armchair engineer, I can tell you that same term is often used to describe similar designs. The difference is we use that term loosely, you use it with authority.
08-28-2011 10:41 AM
Jim M
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
I wouldn't. That's why I dont understand the purpose for this thread.
Werd...
08-28-2011 10:35 AM
daggo66 2012's have the same axle gearing available as 07-11. The hitch is exactly the same for a 2 door as a 4. The difference is wheelbase.
08-28-2011 10:31 AM
oilwell1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykll View Post
Ok.. So, the actual way it bolts on, even on a 2 door, can support 3500. But, because the 2 door has a shorter wheel base, is lighter, whatever, they take off 1500 and have only a 2000 limit. But, if you have 3.21 gears, no matter what, you will have a hard time moving weight, so you are stuck at 1000 no matter what. Think I finally got it straight in my head.
Correct. The hitch is physically capable of holding the load, but when they assign a tow rating they have to consider everything including stability of the tow vehicle while towing. The higher the tongue weight goes the less weight will be carried by the front wheels and the more will be carried by the rears. A light front end reduces stability and can create a dangerous situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
True, but there is new gearing for the 2012's (especially for the auto's). It looks like Jeep just changed the date on the chart and called it a day.

As an aside, the weather is awesome today. I think I'm going to grab the motorcycle and head over to Naperville Jeep and take another look at what they have out there.

Edit:
Maybe that is why the 3.21 auto's are not listed in the first place. The new gearing in the auto, along with the new engine, may end up giving 3.6 autos with 3.21 the same tow rating as those with 3.73's and 4.10's.
Makes it hard to sell a max tow package.....
Just thinking out loud....
I agree that they just changed the date and clicked print. Max tow doesn't include new gears, so lighter ratings really won't hurt that.
08-28-2011 09:51 AM
cavsvet74
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
True, but there is new gearing for the 2012's (especially for the auto's). It looks like Jeep just changed the date on the chart and called it a day.

As an aside, the weather is awesome today. I think I'm going to grab the motorcycle and head over to Naperville Jeep and take another look at what they have out there.
Yep, the lower gear ratios are rated to tow heavier loads.

As to your aside, I would recommend River Front over Naperville.
It was a better experience over all.
Or, better yet, get with Pat@Fields here on the forum when you are ready to buy.

Now back to our originally posted program.
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