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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-10-2011 11:42 AM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycdude777 View Post
Wow, I think you test drove MY Rubicon!!!! LOL ...cuz that's how it drives as of late...
Just wanted to say....Brick Top is one of the best characters ever.....
10-10-2011 11:40 AM
rjk5828 I have an 11 Rubi - with an automatic transmission. Drives nice on all surfaces. Hi-way, off road, gravel roads. Always a pleasure to drive. None of the strange steering or wabbeling described. Can't imagine what caused that on your test drive. Almost sounds like it was in 4 hi on dry pavement. This would happen then. I only have about 3500 miles on my new jeep so I have not had much opportunity to off-road in 4 low yet. Will be interested to try that.
10-05-2011 11:23 AM
nycdude777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappe View Post
Went to a dealer to test drive a 2012 Unlimited Rubicon with 6-dp manual. I've rented Sports via Fox Rent-a-car and have test driven Saharas and found the ride just fine. I was curious about the Rubicon. I won't go off road more than 0.02% of the time (that's 1 mile out of 5000), and even then, I likely won't need what the Rubicon offers, but there is a certain cachet about owning a Rubicon... right?

I was kind of shocked at how badly the Rubicon bobbed up and down on a newly paved street, wallowed side to side, how much the manual gear lever shook and vibrated, and how negotiating a gentle curve that you'd take without lifting in a Smart Car, the Rubicon felt like it might tip over. I mean, I turned the wheel and I could feel the entire weight of the beast lurch to the outside like a drunken cow. In a straight line, wiggling the wheel made the butt end of the thing wag back and forth like a happy puppy.

The big tires were incredibly quiet, however. That was a nice revelation.

I have to hand it to all of those who have made a manual-equipped Rubicon your daily urban/suburban/highway driver. You've got to be a dedicated off road stud to put up with that.

Am I crazy, or am I describing the elephant in the room?
Wow, I think you test drove MY Rubicon!!!! LOL ...cuz that's how it drives as of late...
10-05-2011 11:23 AM
ShoreWrangler Forgot to add the LSD played a roll (as in limited slip, not Jim Morrison). Seemed from everything I read a Sport with limited slip would perform better on pavement, expecially in rain or mild snow) than would a Rubicon with open differentials. How much difference does it make? Maybe not a whole lot but I think it would be tough to argue that it would be better on pavement withtout limited slip. I wish you could use those lockers in 4-Hi, that would be a blast in the snow!
10-05-2011 11:11 AM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjr View Post
Good choice! Glad to see you logically purchased the one that fit your needs instead of giving into the 'Status Quo' and buying the Rubicon just because you can.
+10000000000000000
10-05-2011 11:06 AM
JIMBOX


Quote:
Originally Posted by silvrevo View Post
Now all you need is a Rubicon sticker!

Well 2 of them.
And being No. one in the "stolen Identity class", Oh--and body armor !!

JIMBO
10-05-2011 10:57 AM
silvrevo Now all you need is a Rubicon sticker!

Well 2 of them.
10-05-2011 10:45 AM
JIMBOX Heh Heh, Yeah I'm afraid thats so true-


Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
That should be stickied or something.

I wonder how many people go to different forums and get "talked into" a Rubi...or how many people buy them simply because they are the most expensive/capable?
It's hard to understand the person that buys a new Rubi, then asks, "what are lockers for"??

Don't misunderstand my comment-the lockers aren't something everybody should ever even hear about, but to buy an expensive'r Rubi and not know !!

The e-stabilizer is kinda like icing on the cake and that and the lockers really depend on the extremety of your off-roading-

One more----most new jeepers, don't have any idea what the 4-1 xfer case means/does and why it's different than a Sport/Safari/X--etc

It's a jungle out there !

JIMBO
10-05-2011 10:43 AM
ranjr Good choice! Glad to see you logically purchased the one that fit your needs instead of giving into the 'Status Quo' and buying the Rubicon just because you can.
10-05-2011 10:33 AM
ShoreWrangler Well let me update everyone on this..

I went back last Friday and test drove the Rubicon and then test drove a Sport. I ran both briefly off-road to try the 4-Hi and the 4-Lo, I took both through crowded city streets (it was rush hour) and then lastly I took both on a 65mph highway for only a couple miles (again rush hour prevented a longer ride due to traffic).

I took out the Rubicon first. Noticed the high entry point getting in, almost had to "hop up" into the seat - I'm not that tall. Next thing I noticed was the acceleration was slightly quicker off the line but also felt a lot choppier if that makes any sense. I had a tougher time getting smooth shifts, more of a "bump" into the next gear. I had expected a little of this due to the gearing but it was a little more than I had hoped for.

Off road (and the closest thing we could get to off road was a dirt driveway and grassy area next to a school). I had a little bit of trouble getting it into 4-Hi but not too bad. Drove nice in 4-Hi, no issues. Then we tried to get it into 4-Lo and that was a real bear. I have a Liberty so this is not the first time I have put a truck into 4-Lo, but this was really giving me a hard time. I tried around 3mph, in gear, out of gear, stopped, everything. Then the salesman tried it and LITERALLY pulled the shift knob right off the shifter - too funny! Well we did finally get it into 4-Lo and I could feel that incredible torque immediately. Problem is it is so torquey and so low geared that we just about snapped our necks. Starting in third gear helped this a bit but still very rough. Vehicle went very slow (yes I knew this going in). I could see how great this would be on rough trails and rocks. Not sure how useful it would be anywhere else however...

On to the highway - It drove OK on the highway but again not as good as I had hoped. The tires created additional noise but it really wasn't too bad. I was surprised, however, how squirrely the steering got as we were accelerating to highway speed. The Jeep was wandering all over the place. I guess this is mainly due to the tires but not sure. Back to the dealer to try out the Sport

Sport - this was any automatic unfortunately but I had driven the stick before. This also had the 3.21 gears. Accelerated mush more smoothly than the Rubicon, but that is to be expected with the gearing. The one I ordered has the 3.73

Off road - I had no issues at all getting into 4-Hi, slight effort at 4-Lo but similar to my Liberty. Salesman said to put it in Neutral. I got it rolling slowly, went to neutral, got into 4-Lo. Vehicle seemed very capable at 4-Lo. Did not have the neck snapping like the Rubi but you could feel the torque. The speed difference on 4-Lo of the Sport vs the Rubicon was very noticeable. Much quicker and to me and my use (snow, beaches) it seemed to serve me better than the Rubicon's rock crawler gearing.

Highway - No problems on the highway EXCEPT the whistling coming from the front of the soft top. This was the 3rd soft top I test drove and the only one that did this. It was VERY noticeable. This got me worrying about the one I ordered - will it have this issue? no way to tell ahead of time. Anyway the tires kept in a straight line, smoother ride, quieter ride - all to be expected with the more on-road friendly tires.

Back to the dealer. Like I told the dealer, I have to be honest with myself. This vehicle I am getting will spend 95% of it's life on the road and most of the other 5% on either beaches or fields, unlikely I will be hitting too many trails. For my use the Sport was the one I chose. The 4-Lo gearing really played a big part. The Rubicon's crawl speed is SO low that I could almost never see using it. I also thought the 3.73 gearing of the Sport was a nice middle ground between the 3.21 and the Rubi's 4.10. I was not thrilled with the tires but I plan to switch to more aggressive tires down the road anyway.

The two other issues for me were the side air bags and tubular side steps, both lacking in the Rubicon. I have kids and a wife who will be using the vehicle with me from time to time and they have to be able to get in the vehicle and that side step will really get some use. For my height the side step is a good thing as well, just more comfortable for me than jumping up into the seat. And the side air bags were really important to me, just something you hope you'll never need but could be VERY glad I have it if something does happen. Couldn't live with that guilt if my wife was in the Jeep and we got hit on her side with no bags.

So to sum it up, I really liked both models but decided to go with the Sport that I originally ordered. I can really see the appeal of the Rubicon (that thing is a beast), but I didn't want to buy it as a status symbol - I wanted to buy the model that fit my needs the best, and for me the custom ordered Sport does that!

Thanks everyone for all the help. My Jeep went to D1 TODAY, so I am real excited. Won't be long now (hopefully)!
10-05-2011 10:19 AM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX View Post

Rubis are like Corvettes--you've gotta WANT one, you don't buyem cause it's KEWL-well some do though-

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with any of the JK/JKUs--it just depends on your demeanor and your decision is AOK !
That should be stickied or something.

I wonder how many people go to different forums and get "talked into" a Rubi...or how many people buy them simply because they are the most expensive/capable?
10-05-2011 09:25 AM
JIMBOX I'm afraid your data wasn't imperical and you damned the Rubi without sufficient cause-


Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappe View Post
Went to a dealer to test drive a 2012 Unlimited Rubicon with 6-dp manual. I've rented Sports via Fox Rent-a-car and have test driven Saharas and found the ride just fine. I was curious about the Rubicon. I won't go off road more than 0.02% of the time (that's 1 mile out of 5000), and even then, I likely won't need what the Rubicon offers, but there is a certain cachet about owning a Rubicon... right?

I was kind of shocked at how badly the Rubicon bobbed up and down on a newly paved street, wallowed side to side, how much the manual gear lever shook and vibrated, and how negotiating a gentle curve that you'd take without lifting in a Smart Car, the Rubicon felt like it might tip over. I mean, I turned the wheel and I could feel the entire weight of the beast lurch to the outside like a drunken cow. In a straight line, wiggling the wheel made the butt end of the thing wag back and forth like a happy puppy.

The big tires were incredibly quiet, however. That was a nice revelation.

I have to hand it to all of those who have made a manual-equipped Rubicon your daily urban/suburban/highway driver. You've got to be a dedicated off road stud to put up with that.

Am I crazy, or am I describing the elephant in the room?
You drove a Rubi that was a RARE assembly-


Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappe View Post
I love all the enthusiasm for Wranglers on this forum. I'm new. Just ordered a Sahara. By sharing the reasons why I decided not to buy a Rubicon, I was trying to be helpful to the originator of this post who was torn between buying a Rubicon vs. the Sport that he had already spec'd. I certainly appreciate all the reasons many people DO buy a Rubicon. In fact, reading all the enthusiasm on the forum for the Rubi was why I thought I owed it to myself to go check one out. I figured that experience, my test drive of a Rubicon, was one more piece of data that could help someone trying to make a decision. Even with cost not an impediment, I would not buy a Rubicon for the reasons I mentioned - all of which are related to a ride and drive quality that is sharply different from the Sahara and Sport models I have driven. That is not meant to reflect in any way on others who need, want or regularly use the special capabilities of a Rubicon and feel it is or was their best choice.

I also am not buying a Wrangler for an investment, BTW.
Thats true, you should buy a Wrangler, cause you want a JEEP (legend)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHrubicon View Post
You definitely test drove a defective rubicon...something waaaay wrong with it! I upgraded from a 2000 Sahara (man, that was a nice jeep) to a 2003 Rubicon back in 04...and drove the rubicon all around the same roads to compare to the sahara and wondered just what in the world I had gotten myself into! Tight steering, handled like a dream, finger tip control on the wheel...felt like a tiger ready to pounce with the wider tires...and once I got it offroad...whoopee! I still have it-have done a ton of mods on it, lift, bigger tires, steel skid plates from end to end, custom bumpers...and it STILL drives on the highway like the sahara did. So I firmly believe something was wrong with the one you test drove!
I've modified my '08 Rubi, till the cows came home and it drives like a Brick sports car, but handles and corners like competition--

The main difference between the stock Rubi/Sahara (Hiwy use), is Rubi shocks, for STIFFER ride and MS tires for a little noise and less traction in rain --ONLY--

The one you drove may have been used/un-aligned/shocks swapped/loose drive train gear bolts/ different tires---

Rubis are like Corvettes--you've gotta WANT one, you don't buyem cause it's KEWL-well some do though-

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with any of the JK/JKUs--it just depends on your demeanor and your decision is AOK !

JIMBO
10-05-2011 09:04 AM
NHrubicon You definitely test drove a defective rubicon...something waaaay wrong with it! I upgraded from a 2000 Sahara (man, that was a nice jeep) to a 2003 Rubicon back in 04...and drove the rubicon all around the same roads to compare to the sahara and wondered just what in the world I had gotten myself into! Tight steering, handled like a dream, finger tip control on the wheel...felt like a tiger ready to pounce with the wider tires...and once I got it offroad...whoopee! I still have it-have done a ton of mods on it, lift, bigger tires, steel skid plates from end to end, custom bumpers...and it STILL drives on the highway like the sahara did. So I firmly believe something was wrong with the one you test drove!
10-05-2011 09:04 AM
glowingghoul
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
There is one very big difference between the BLD and an LSD. That is this: one is proactive and one is reactive. I will take proactive every day of the week and twice on Sunday over something that is reactive. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I would rather not lose traction in the first place.
How can a mechanical differential be "proactive"? It has to SLIP before it can react, just like the BLD, unless LSD's have some unknown psychic ability to know there will be slip before it happens.
10-05-2011 08:58 AM
Strappe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
Please....you must have been driving an Elephant. I have has a Wrangler X, Rubi and now getting a 12 Rubi. Everyone is wonderful for what they are...a Jeep. Makes me happy, makes most people happy...the ones that are Jeep people. A Jeep is like nothing else on the road or off. The issue of this thread was to buy a sport or a rubi. If cost is not an option, get the rubi for investment reasons. You will not go wrong on re-sale. If you do get the bug to do some more serious off roading..then you are set with a stock vehicle that will do amazing things. I have done things with mine, had people tell me I was crazy out with a tow strap in NC in the snow 9 inches or more pulling the unlucky out of ditches, pulled one 1/2 mile home. It is what ever you want your Jeep to be. Rubicon looks really cool on the hood for a reason, it says something a little more special. Jeeps are special, but Rubi's are the bomb.
I love all the enthusiasm for Wranglers on this forum. I'm new. Just ordered a Sahara. By sharing the reasons why I decided not to buy a Rubicon, I was trying to be helpful to the originator of this post who was torn between buying a Rubicon vs. the Sport that he had already spec'd. I certainly appreciate all the reasons many people DO buy a Rubicon. In fact, reading all the enthusiasm on the forum for the Rubi was why I thought I owed it to myself to go check one out. I figured that experience, my test drive of a Rubicon, was one more piece of data that could help someone trying to make a decision. Even with cost not an impediment, I would not buy a Rubicon for the reasons I mentioned - all of which are related to a ride and drive quality that is sharply different from the Sahara and Sport models I have driven. That is not meant to reflect in any way on others who need, want or regularly use the special capabilities of a Rubicon and feel it is or was their best choice.

I also am not buying a Wrangler for an investment, BTW.
10-04-2011 10:10 PM
tribangle
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark
Lake Shore Drive about 8 months ago...
*shudder* that was a wicked dumping of snow
10-04-2011 08:57 PM
Blackbird
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappe View Post
Went to a dealer to test drive a 2012 Unlimited Rubicon with 6-dp manual. I've rented Sports via Fox Rent-a-car and have test driven Saharas and found the ride just fine. I was curious about the Rubicon. I won't go off road more than 0.02% of the time (that's 1 mile out of 5000), and even then, I likely won't need what the Rubicon offers, but there is a certain cachet about owning a Rubicon... right?

I was kind of shocked at how badly the Rubicon bobbed up and down on a newly paved street, wallowed side to side, how much the manual gear lever shook and vibrated, and how negotiating a gentle curve that you'd take without lifting in a Smart Car, the Rubicon felt like it might tip over. I mean, I turned the wheel and I could feel the entire weight of the beast lurch to the outside like a drunken cow. In a straight line, wiggling the wheel made the butt end of the thing wag back and forth like a happy puppy.

The big tires were incredibly quiet, however. That was a nice revelation.

I have to hand it to all of those who have made a manual-equipped Rubicon your daily urban/suburban/highway driver. You've got to be a dedicated off road stud to put up with that.

Am I crazy, or am I describing the elephant in the room?

Please....you must have been driving an Elephant. I have has a Wrangler X, Rubi and now getting a 12 Rubi. Everyone is wonderful for what they are...a Jeep. Makes me happy, makes most people happy...the ones that are Jeep people. A Jeep is like nothing else on the road or off. The issue of this thread was to buy a sport or a rubi. If cost is not an option, get the rubi for investment reasons. You will not go wrong on re-sale. If you do get the bug to do some more serious off roading..then you are set with a stock vehicle that will do amazing things. I have done things with mine, had people tell me I was crazy out with a tow strap in NC in the snow 9 inches or more pulling the unlucky out of ditches, pulled one 1/2 mile home. It is what ever you want your Jeep to be. Rubicon looks really cool on the hood for a reason, it says something a little more special. Jeeps are special, but Rubi's are the bomb.
10-04-2011 06:30 PM
tribangle mmmm "drunken cow"
10-04-2011 05:42 PM
Strappe
Sport/Sahara vs Rubicon drive and ride quality

Went to a dealer to test drive a 2012 Unlimited Rubicon with 6-dp manual. I've rented Sports via Fox Rent-a-car and have test driven Saharas and found the ride just fine. I was curious about the Rubicon. I won't go off road more than 0.02% of the time (that's 1 mile out of 5000), and even then, I likely won't need what the Rubicon offers, but there is a certain cachet about owning a Rubicon... right?

I was kind of shocked at how badly the Rubicon bobbed up and down on a newly paved street, wallowed side to side, how much the manual gear lever shook and vibrated, and how negotiating a gentle curve that you'd take without lifting in a Smart Car, the Rubicon felt like it might tip over. I mean, I turned the wheel and I could feel the entire weight of the beast lurch to the outside like a drunken cow. In a straight line, wiggling the wheel made the butt end of the thing wag back and forth like a happy puppy.

The big tires were incredibly quiet, however. That was a nice revelation.

I have to hand it to all of those who have made a manual-equipped Rubicon your daily urban/suburban/highway driver. You've got to be a dedicated off road stud to put up with that.

Am I crazy, or am I describing the elephant in the room?
09-22-2011 10:47 AM
ShoreWrangler
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenservices View Post
why go with air bags in the doors? The doors won't be on it anyways will they?

hehe...
I think they are in the seats, but point taken!

I'm gonna go drive the Rubi this Saturday and then drive a Sport and make my decision then. For the poster that said "just buy something" - keep in mind I did just that last weekend. I put the deposit down and signed all the papers. Just figured I'd check out the Rubicon sitting on their lot just in case...

Great points about resale value, that is something I did not initially consider and it is important.
09-22-2011 10:46 AM
greenenvy
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
If anyone ever gets themselves into a situation where they need lockers on both ends, ediscos, and a 4:1 low range to save the day and doesn't have them they deserve what they get. This is like saying I need a .50 caliber sniper rifle in case I need to eliminate a target 1000 yards away.
If you don't think they come
In handy your not wheelin in the places we do!!
09-22-2011 10:09 AM
panthermark Keep in mind that most Wrangler see nothing more than dirt roads. 80% according to a recent AOL article.

A stock Sport S or Sahara will be able to tackle 99% of all urban and suburban situations. The 1% that it can't tackle will probably be a time that you should not be out anyway.

Lake Shore Drive about 8 months ago...
09-22-2011 10:00 AM
sevenservices why go with air bags in the doors? The doors won't be on it anyways will they?

hehe...
09-22-2011 09:49 AM
twxsby
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD_Jeep View Post
Either way though you'll be happy you bought a Jeep.
X2

09-22-2011 09:03 AM
MD_Jeep I started out thinking I was only going to do light offroading and after a few trips to Rausch Creek I got the bug and now I'm really glad I bought a Rubicon. I went back and forth between a Sport and a Rubicon for several months. Either way though you'll be happy you bought a Jeep.
09-22-2011 08:54 AM
Kate FWIW I would recommend going with the Rubicon.

Here's my reasoning.
You say that you are planning light trails.
Well, all too often, that turns into a full blown hobby/obsession and then there you are, already pretty well equipped in a Rubi.

I think that the BIG question here is this: Do you want to buy a Jeep that is already extremely capable right out of the box and have that capability financed into your purchase price OR do you want to save your money for mods and then go to wrenching on your new Jeep thereby taking the risk of voiding your warranty and find yourself regretting that you didn't get the Rubicon to begin with?

There is one more point to be made here. And it's a biggie. Resale value.
Jeeps do hold resale value very well, but the Rubicon holds it best.


Kate
06 Rubi, with some stuff on it.
09-22-2011 08:39 AM
glowingghoul
Quote:
Originally Posted by twxsby View Post
I didn't need a Rubicon, I wanted it, so I got it. You can swing it, so why not get it? Because you may not use it? BS, if you have it, you will use it. Maybe not the week you get it, but eventually you will be glad you spent the extra $4k. I am assuming you intend to keep it for the long haul.
Since most people finance, that $4k is not going to add much to the payment anyway.

Also, Rubi's seem to hold their value even better than the already incredible resale all Wrangler's enjoy.
09-22-2011 08:36 AM
glowingghoul
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaulP View Post
You're the clueless one. Here is what you say about your knowledge: "It's very confusing, I know, it took a lot of digging to sort it all out." Wow, you sound like a real expert there. You googled it and copy and pasted something. I'm impressed (as impressed as I am with your Hemi -vrooom, vroooom).

Sounds like your wife has the smarts in the family. Let her decide.
In my world, a Grand Cherokee is not a vehicle you'd brag about to try and impress anyone, but losers are usually so insecure they get that impression about anyone who isn't as badly off as they are.
09-22-2011 08:28 AM
Browndog 69 posts on whether this guy should buy a sport or rubi, OMG, just go buy something.....Maybe there should be a post (I don't know what to buy waiting room)
09-22-2011 08:03 AM
oilwell1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
It probably depends on your hobbies and how much you off-road.
Honestly, how often does someone "need" lockers, disco's, and a 4-1 transfer case if they make getting into those situations part of their lifestyle?

For me, I would rather take that extra $4,000 and spend it on a hobby I enjoy more. I'd probably hunt down a 1976 CB550 and a 360 and cafe them out. That way the GF and I could ride old school motorcycles together. She is finally outgrowing her Rebel 250 (which she dumped in the driveway after finishing a 100 mile ride. ).
Exactly. I've got lots of hobbies, and I could get much more enjoyment out of that $4000 by spending it on one of them. That's two or three guns, a mountain of ammo, a few RC planes, 100 diecast cars, and real close to a down payment on an airplane.
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