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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-11-2011 08:48 AM
ShoreWrangler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared1956 View Post
Steering/Drive: With the Rubicon Mud Terrains and the old school steering linkage and box, the steering is very touchy. If feels like your riding on marshmallows, which is not uncommon for new Mud Terrains as I have worn out several sets of BFG MT's and Goodyear MTR's, but couple that with the steering, and the Jeep is very hard to keep going straight down the road. Any twitch of the wheel and your nearly changing lanes. I would recommend driving a Rubicon before you buy it if this sounds like a problem to you. The Sports I have driven have not been as bad, but still have the wandering and sensitive steering since the hardware for the steering is the same across all model lines. It is just the tires are street tires so there is less wallowing from the lugs.
I noticed the exact same thing when I test drove a 12 Rubicon a couple weeks ago. The steering was very touchy and the Jeep was wandering all over the place. I found it a challenge to keep it in a straight line, especially when accelerating to highway speeds.

The Sport model I test drove did not have this issue which makes me think it's all due to the off-road tires on the Rubicon vs the more highway-friendly tires on the Sport model. The Sport seemed a little smoother to me as well - I assume this is due to the difference in the shocks.

But tires aside, any vehicle with a short wheelbase and high center of gravity is going to wander a bit on the road I would imagine
10-10-2011 09:05 PM
KSCRUDE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasin Tail View Post
So wait.... you test drove a jeep with 3.21's and havnt even driven a 12' JK with 3.73's and you want us to think you know what the hell you are talking about???

At least spend a few minutes driving one with 3.73's BEFORE you try and bash it..
Yes this is true as this was the only 12 on the lot. I did say it had slightly better rpm in overdrive then my 11 does with the 3.73 thanks to the better geared auto in the 12 model. I would like to drive both the 3.73 and the 4.10 but that will have to Waite. I am putting 4.88 gears in my 11 next week and I will have almost the same overdrive RPM as a 12 with the 4.10 ratio. While I am at it I am putting a eaton e locker in the front, as it will not cost me any more labor as it all is coming out anyway. The 12 five speed is cool and I really liked the gear selection on the stick, and this one was stiff enough not to be accidentally bumped up or down a gear. New gears with locker in the front about $3000 dollars. Price to trade up to a 12 just like my 11, about $12,000 dollars and I only have about 11 k on the 11 and no more sahara tan so I would of had to get the winter chill if possible. Keeping my 11 with a top that don't leak, priceless!
10-10-2011 06:55 PM
Chasin Tail
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSCRUDE View Post
If you know so much about jeeps and hot roding, why on earth would you Buy a 12 rubi with the 3.73 when the much better and needed 4.10 is there for like $50 bucks or so. I test drove a new 12 Jesus jeep last weekend in Joplin mo and was not the least bit impressed. Jeep should not even offer any lower then the 4.10 and then offer at least 4.56-4.88-5.13 and 5.38. The pentastar is a gutless, torque less wonder with no balls just like most V 6 engines of the day! You got to wind it up to get anything out of it.

So wait.... you test drove a jeep with 3.21's and havnt even driven a 12' JK with 3.73's and you want us to think you know what the hell you are talking about???

At least spend a few minutes driving one with 3.73's BEFORE you try and bash it..
10-10-2011 05:56 PM
TheAxe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared1956
not many rocks here in Missouri.
I guess we need to go to Arcadia valley.
10-10-2011 05:33 PM
Jared1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997

Too me the V-6 and even the 3.6 especially preforms better at higher RPM. that is where their power band is but that ok if you like the 3.73 but still 4.10 should be a dream gear for the new Jeeps and that new tranny when it doesn't even peak to 6000rpms. But if you like it thats fine too.

But why would you be in 4lo in that situation? If you need speed to clear the lugs then you shouldn't be in 4lo to begin with. That's why there is 4hi - 4lo. 4lo suppose to be for super slow crawling not for driving in the snow or for going fast enough through mud to clean out the lugs.
Your right, but the Rubicon lockers only engage in 4-Lo......if they worked in 4-Hi this wouldnt even be an issue :-). I am hoping for the Hypertech solution for the locked 4-Hi.
10-10-2011 11:25 AM
Up Hill Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared1956 View Post
...
For me, the 3.73's are perfect for the tire size and transmission gear ratio's....
You're in good company in that opinion.

Dave Harriton, founder of AEV, posted this on another forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AEV Dave:

...The A580 auto is geared lower throughout its range. What’s this mean? It means that 4.10s with the A580 is equivalent to 4.88 with the 42RLE. So 4.10 is ideal for 35s.
...
The 3.6 does not require the same ratios as the 07-10 JKs, which is good because the pinion gears are that much stronger. 4.88 would be fine for 37s.
So then, it is reasonable to deduce that 3.73's would be ideal for the stock 32" tires.

I know that 3.73's are perfect for my Jeeping needs. YMMV.
10-10-2011 10:49 AM
Mr. Sinister It's interesting to read how different people view the Wrangler's handling.
My opinion is it steers fast, but handles poorly. It's got 2 solid axles and is top heavy, it's basically impossible for it to handle well. But the quick steering might fool some into thinking it handles well. You will feel like you're tearing through a corner, until you look at the speedo and see you're only doing 30mph.
But, it's a Jeep. I didn't buy it to carve corners.


Vex, lmfao.
10-10-2011 10:39 AM
BattleRifle
Front and Rear Lockers in 4 Hi

I really think that for certain rare instances, having both front and rear locked and having the speed of 4 hi would be the cat's ass!!!!! Especially in deep mud, going up a hill in deep mud or deep snow, going through a 2 foot deep drift that is 100 feet long etc.... I've been using 4x4's for 35 years in mostly snow and mud. My home sits atop a hill on a hilly country road. When the road turns to slime and you have to fight both gravity and no traction for 200 yards, only speed, fast spinning tires, lots of steering commands and some luck gets you to the top. Sometimes you just need speed to carry you through the obstacle. On rocky steep trails, that's why I have the 4:1 gears and 4 lo.
10-10-2011 09:08 AM
rics1997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared1956 View Post
Your right, but.....I wanted factory lockers, leather heated seats, and the sway bar disconnect all in a factory package with a warranty. Had Jeep offered a standard transfer case instead of the 4:1, I may have opted for the 4.10's.

Another factor in choosing the 3.73's was the fact that I drive my Jeeps.....A LOT!!! I've taken Wranglers on trips several states away, thousands of miles, and put around 25k a year on them. So highway drivability and mileage was a factor in my decision.

For me, the 3.73's are perfect for the tire size and transmission gear ratio's.....that's why Jeep made the 3.73's standard in the auto this year because the gear ratios are different than the 42RLE.

Oh, and low gears dont necessarily make a better 4x4. You need wheel speed to push through mud or snow....wheel speed to clear the lugs.....if you have low t case gears and low axle gears, your not going to be able to spin the tires fast enough to clear the lugs.....in low range at least, where the factory lockers work.......a mud truck and a rock crawler are nothing alike......not many rocks here in Missouri.
Too me the V-6 and even the 3.6 especially preforms better at higher RPM. that is where their power band is but that ok if you like the 3.73 but still 4.10 should be a dream gear for the new Jeeps and that new tranny when it doesn't even peak to 6000rpms. But if you like it thats fine too.

But why would you be in 4lo in that situation? If you need speed to clear the lugs then you shouldn't be in 4lo to begin with. That's why there is 4hi - 4lo. 4lo suppose to be for super slow crawling not for driving in the snow or for going fast enough through mud to clean out the lugs.
10-10-2011 08:16 AM
JIMBOX Don't worry, KS-I think it's just VEX with a new seasoned attempt at entry !

JIMBO
10-10-2011 08:04 AM
KSCRUDE
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
I bet that's because he IS the OP.
This gave me a good laugh this morning. It was still a true statement, but I was mostly laughing at myself. Maybe the three crown and sodas last night had a little effect on my posting.
10-10-2011 07:36 AM
BattleRifle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared1956 View Post
a mud truck and a rock crawler are nothing alike......not many rocks here in Missouri.
I agree, getting through a 2 mile greasy muddy road or the same road with occasional 3 foot drifts sometimes takes velocity and momentum to get you through the obstacle. I did get the 4:1 t-case just in case I make some trips to the mountains. However, I'm pinning my hopes on getting one of the "superchip" programs, so that I can lock both front and rear while in 4 hi. I suppose it will be a few months before the software techs get the code for the 2012's. I hope that my decision won't haunt me. We live in Nebraska on a very hilly country road lined with brush. In 60 MPH blizzards, every bush makes a 2 to 3 foot drift going across the road. Our road becomes impassable by all cars and some 4x4's for weeks at a time.

Also, I'm no expert but the pentastar with 4:1 seems very fast and responsive. This off-road beast steers and tracks down the road like a laser and is a joy to drive with all the amenities of a luxury sedan. That being said, the steering wheel is very sensitive. You don't want to give it any unnecessary commands.
10-10-2011 06:38 AM
Jared1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997
Why would 4lo be a decision in gear ratio? It is an option you hardly ever use unless rock crawling. 4 hi is all you ever need on 99.99% of trails and 4.10 gears are so much better in 2wd and 4hi. Not sure of the logic of choosing 3.73 because of 4lo. But If you do need 4lo then the lower the better for final gears anyways.
Your right, but.....I wanted factory lockers, leather heated seats, and the sway bar disconnect all in a factory package with a warranty. Had Jeep offered a standard transfer case instead of the 4:1, I may have opted for the 4.10's.

Another factor in choosing the 3.73's was the fact that I drive my Jeeps.....A LOT!!! I've taken Wranglers on trips several states away, thousands of miles, and put around 25k a year on them. So highway drivability and mileage was a factor in my decision.

For me, the 3.73's are perfect for the tire size and transmission gear ratio's.....that's why Jeep made the 3.73's standard in the auto this year because the gear ratios are different than the 42RLE.

Oh, and low gears dont necessarily make a better 4x4. You need wheel speed to push through mud or snow....wheel speed to clear the lugs.....if you have low t case gears and low axle gears, your not going to be able to spin the tires fast enough to clear the lugs.....in low range at least, where the factory lockers work.......a mud truck and a rock crawler are nothing alike......not many rocks here in Missouri.
10-10-2011 05:41 AM
KSCRUDE And I know that the new 12 auto has a way better overdrive ratio then the 11 and previous year JK wranglers and if I had that 5 speed auto in my 11 I wouldn't have near as bad a need to regear as I do now. I probably wouldn't even need to regear at all with the new 5 speed auto and the 3.6 engine. But the sad fact is I have a 2011 and it is still 2011 last time I looked and it is probably the most miss geared vehicle I have ever owned. And that new 12 model jeep I drove was a auto with the 3.21 and it was slightly better then my 11 4 speed auto with the 3.73 but not by much. I wanted to drive a 4.10 or 3.73 but just about every new one I have seen on a lot has the 3.21 ratio as the order guy is so far out of it that he can't check the 3.73 option and they get the standard 3.21 and thus save what $50 dollars I am thinking and end up with another miss geared vehicle to sell to the unknowing John Q Public. But life is good and if all I ever have to worry about is the gear ratios in my jeep I am a fortunate man, and for about 2 k I can make this gear problem go away and find something elso to complain about!
10-10-2011 03:15 AM
AlexRiedel Hmm, I just got a 2012 JKU with 3.73, LSD. I don't know much about gearing (yet) but it seems to perform quite nicely. It has enough pickup and acceleration so I don't feel like shoving the pedal into the firewall all the time. I test drove a 2011 to decide if I even can live with a Jeep as DD and with a 2011 the answer would have been no. Automatic, 4 speed, no way. And the manual was just geared too short in the first two gears for my taste. Engine, asthmatic getting on the freeway. But I am sure someone else feels completely different about that.
Now, since I don't go rock crawling the 2012 as configured is fine for me. It'll do fine on California back roads and in the snow in Tahoe.

I think there are so many different options and aftermarket things to upgrade that there is no "better" in a universal sense. We all have different uses. While as a newbie I learn a lot from this forum and posts like this one, I just wish some folks wouldn't go on a Jihad every time someone prefers a different gear ratio or tire size than themselves.
10-10-2011 01:26 AM
DiSH I have about 500 miles on my 2012 Unlimited with 3.73s. So far I have not noticed any quick downshifting issues. In fact, I sometimes have to push it a little harder than I want to in order to get a downshift, but then it holds the gear and rapidly accelerates until I really let off of it. The transmission seems to want to stay in the ECO range most of the time which I guess is a good thing. To the person who complained about the lack of power--I own a Pontiac GTO with 475HP/500TQ, so while the Jeep is a far cry from that, it still has plenty of power for a 4X4, and the power is great both on and off road. The steering is fantastic and tracks straight--no squirrelly issues here. As you can tell, so far I am very pleased with the 2012.
10-10-2011 12:47 AM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by off a cough View Post
Why is it that the people who dismiss the Pentastar with the most vigor all own 2011 JKs?
He also likes chrome, lots of chrome.
10-10-2011 12:46 AM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSCRUDE View Post
It looks to me that you know about as much about jeeps and gearing as the op.
I bet that's because he IS the OP.
10-10-2011 12:44 AM
rics1997 Why would 4lo be a decision in gear ratio? It is an option you hardly ever use unless rock crawling. 4 hi is all you ever need on 99.99% of trails and 4.10 gears are so much better in 2wd and 4hi. Not sure of the logic of choosing 3.73 because of 4lo. But If you do need 4lo then the lower the better for final gears anyways.
10-09-2011 11:34 PM
KSCRUDE
Quote:
Originally Posted by off a cough View Post
Why is it that the people who dismiss the Pentastar with the most vigor all own 2011 JKs?
And if I may ask, what ratio did you get in you new jeep?
10-09-2011 11:20 PM
off a cough
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSCRUDE View Post
It looks to me that you know about as much about jeeps and gearing as the op. I have a 11 jeep, auto 3.73 with 32 inch tires and it turns about 1900 @ 70 MPH. I am going to regear in the next week or two and am debating between 4.88 which is about 2475 @ 70 MPH or 5.13 which is about 2600 @ 70 MPH. I would even consider 5.38 ratio but with my Dana 30 up front I am limited to 5.13. I believe JIMBOX regarded to 5.38 in his jkur recently and is loving every minute of it. Oh and I only plan to run stock size tires so I am leaning towards the 4.88. Your old willies is a whole different animal so we will let it be out of respect for all old jeeps.
Why is it that the people who dismiss the Pentastar with the most vigor all own 2011 JKs?
10-09-2011 11:14 PM
KSCRUDE It looks to me that you know about as much about jeeps and gearing as the op. I have a 11 jeep, auto 3.73 with 32 inch tires and it turns about 1900 @ 70 MPH. I am going to regear in the next week or two and am debating between 4.88 which is about 2475 @ 70 MPH or 5.13 which is about 2600 @ 70 MPH. I would even consider 5.38 ratio but with my Dana 30 up front I am limited to 5.13. I believe JIMBOX regarded to 5.38 in his jkur recently and is loving every minute of it. Oh and I only plan to run stock size tires so I am leaning towards the 4.88. Your old willies is a whole different animal so we will let it be out of respect for all old jeeps.
10-09-2011 10:46 PM
Jared1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSCRUDE
If you know so much about jeeps and hot roding, why on earth would you Buy a 12 rubi with the 3.73 when the much better and needed 4.10 is there for like $50 bucks or so. I test drove a new 12 Jesus jeep last weekend in Joplin mo and was not the least bit impressed. Jeep should not even offer any lower then the 4.10 and then offer at least 4.56-4.88-5.13 and 5.38. The pentastar is a gutless, torque less wonder with no balls just like most V 6 engines of the day! You got to wind it up to get anything out of it.
While your post doesn't warrant a response, I will against my better judgement. I opted for the 3.73's because of the 4:1 transfer case. The 4.1 case is utterly useless for anything other than rock crawling. So my theory was, opt for the higher axle gears to make up for the low range issues that I will see in Missouri mud and snow.

I will not lift my Jeep, nor will I run larger tires. If those were my plans, I would have opted for a Sport and chucked the factory axles anyway. This Jeep is a daily driver that will be used, like all of my Jeeps are, to get from point A to point B off road, I am not a member of the "Tear it Up" crowd who inhabits most of the Midwest.....I spent the last decade as a cop so I avoid the tattooed, beer swilling rednecks that infest our local "mud holes".

And for god sakes....5.38's??? My Willys has factory 5.38's and has a top speed of about 50 mph on 29" tires........ Even with an overdrive trans and 32" tires of the modern Rubi's you would be spinning some high rpm's at 70mph. That's what the aftermarket is for.....
10-09-2011 10:45 PM
off a cough
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSCRUDE View Post
If you know so much about jeeps and hot roding, why on earth would you Buy a 12 rubi with the 3.73 when the much better and needed 4.10 is there for like $50 bucks or so. I test drove a new 12 Jesus jeep last weekend in Joplin mo and was not the least bit impressed. Jeep should not even offer any lower then the 4.10 and then offer at least 4.56-4.88-5.13 and 5.38. The pentastar is a gutless, torque less wonder with no balls just like most V 6 engines of the day! You got to wind it up to get anything out of it.
10-09-2011 10:25 PM
KSCRUDE If you know so much about jeeps and hot roding, why on earth would you Buy a 12 rubi with the 3.73 when the much better and needed 4.10 is there for like $50 bucks or so. I test drove a new 12 Jesus jeep last weekend in Joplin mo and was not the least bit impressed. Jeep should not even offer any lower then the 4.10 and then offer at least 4.56-4.88-5.13 and 5.38. The pentastar is a gutless, torque less wonder with no balls just like most V 6 engines of the day! You got to wind it up to get anything out of it.
10-09-2011 10:17 PM
Dogface I have not taken delivery yet on my Rubi and have already been looking to trade out my BFG MT's but won't take a bath on them. I had not heard about this squirrelly steering problem, but had heard that they are not great in the rain...which we get six months of here in No. Cal. I may have to bite the bullet and take what I can get for them.
10-09-2011 10:14 PM
Jared1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill
Strange that, unlike yours, the steering/tracking of my 2012 Rubi is flawless. Best handling in terms of steering of any vehicle I can remember.

But, I am one of those early orderers with the hair-trigger downshift problem.

Because you, and lots of others, have properly working shifters, I know mine can be fixed (Jeep is working on the problem.) And, I hope that the fact I, and others, don't have any sort of steering or tracking problem, as you and others have described, means that your problem can be remedied!
I think mine probably is an alignment issue. I've heard many say on TJ and JK a 1/8" toe out helps out with a host of problems.
10-09-2011 10:12 PM
Up Hill Bill Strange that, unlike yours, the steering/tracking of my 2012 Rubi is flawless. Best handling in terms of steering of any vehicle I can remember.

But, I am one of those early orderers with the hair-trigger downshift problem.

Because you, and lots of others, have properly working shifters, I know mine can be fixed (Jeep is working on the problem.) And, I hope that the fact I, and others, don't have any sort of steering or tracking problem, as you and others have described, means that your problem can be remedied!
10-09-2011 10:12 PM
Jared1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by basecamper
The touchy steering issue is interesting. Yesterday I drove two 2012 JKU unlimiteds one auto one 6spd both rubicons with 4.10 gears. I didnt notice it on the 6 spd but on the auto it seemed a little squirrelly. Since the wind had picked up I assumed that was the issue also thought air pressure could have been a cause but I would be curious if others have noticed this
The Unlimiteds with their longer wheelbase are less twitchy from my experience. I drove 2 doors and 4 doors in both manual and auto, in both sport and rubi. (My best friend is a salesman for a large dealer....but after the 8th Jeep he still told me "Hey, if you want to ride the rides, go to Six Flags!!!").

It will also be dependent on what you are used to. I came out of a Tacoma with rack and pinion, and the Wife's Volvo is a C30, the sportiest Volvo they make, so with the exception of my 46 CJ2A, I havent driven a Jeep daily in over a year.
10-09-2011 10:01 PM
basecamper The touchy steering issue is interesting. Yesterday I drove two 2012 JKU unlimiteds one auto one 6spd both rubicons with 4.10 gears. I didnt notice it on the 6 spd but on the auto it seemed a little squirrelly. Since the wind had picked up I assumed that was the issue also thought air pressure could have been a cause but I would be curious if others have noticed this
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