|10-30-2011 05:53 PM|
|10-30-2011 02:14 PM|
I bought a new VW bug in 1969 for $1982 with all the options, including sun roof. Heavily into dirt bikes and off roading at the time, I used it on motorcycle trails as well as highways around the west.
It replaced my 65 bug, which actually spent time on two wheels balanced with friends on the uphill running boards, to get thru an ill-considered woodsy route to a tavern hidden in the hills.
My beloved VWs had certain advantages Jeeps in those days lacked...such as passable heater/defrosters, great fuel mileage, and wide spread repair shops. They had the ability to go nearly anywhere by any route I chose, in any weather. And by the mid 60s I had grown disenchanted with the CJ2 with all it's foibles.
I once drove Boise to Portland and back, for $5.25 gas each direction....which a Jeep wouldn't have managed.
The old beetles are gone, the Wranglers are degrees of magnitude improved over my previous Jeeps, and I don't have time to even wonder or care about the 'haters'.
|10-30-2011 11:12 AM|
|10-30-2011 09:57 AM|
Here's some perspective:
In 1999, I paid invoice for a loaded out Subaru Impreza Outback Sport. 5-speed manual, power windows, security, AC, cruise, AWD, ABS, skid plates, guage pack... ...and it cost me, in cash, about $19500.
My Wrangler is 11 years newer. ABS, AC, cruise, 4x4, convertible, 6 speed (gained a gear!)... and was less than $3k more. My 2010 Patriot, which has every feature my OBS sport had (we bought a Latitude), cost abbout the same as my Wrangler.
I can understand not wanting cars to be in the $20s, but in today's dollars for the safety features, technology, and everyday conveniences.... ...and if you account for inflation- we're getting a lot of ride for the dollar.
I personally think Chrysler has really stepped up to the plate in terms of value, funky fun factor, etc. versus the competition. When we were shopping- hard- for a new car for my wife (we'd put 230k or so on that Subaru), we wound up with the Patriot which- despite the derision of many- has proven to be a best bang for the buck commuter. My wife gets up to 29mpg in that ride. We've gone all over the country in it, and it wants for little in terms of comfort features. I didn't even know it existed, and it was a fluke that we discovered it- I'm thrilled we did.
I looked at offerings from other manufacturers- and outside of the fact that they all look like a cross between a door stop and a Nike sneaker- they were al $8k+ for a comparably equipped ride.
We have owned Jeeps in the past- I had a Grand Wagoneer and my wife had a Cherokee- but we bought both used after they had taken beatings from prior owners and at a time in our loves when we didn't have the $$ to restore them properly. We bought other brands in the meantime- so it was with fresh eyes and open minds that we came back to the brand for our most recent new purchases... ...and so far, we've been well pleased.
|10-30-2011 02:50 AM|
When I've visited a couple of dealers over the last few weeks I felt the exact same way. I've spent the last few months researching every thing there is to know about 2012 JKU's... I have a good idea as to what to expect....and I feel bad for whatever sales person I deal with.
I'm getting excited. Winter Chill might be available after November 2nd for non Arctic Editions and Black Forest Green should be hitting the showroom floors in a week or so. I'm probably two weeks away from ordering.
Hmmm....I'm probably 4 weeks away....for no other reason than to order at the end of the month to see if I can get a better deal. (Unless I don't wait on WC and BFG and order Flame Red on Monday).
|10-30-2011 02:40 AM|
|CrazyBull||I hate Jeeps for ONE reason.. And damn if it isn't because you can "mod" yourself out of a bank account for aftermarket stuff to customize your ride to your own..uhm, idealistic utopia of offroadiness. I still want that bloody ARB freezer but darned if I can justify the cost. May just xerox a copy of a pic of it and tape it to the inside of the rear door.|
|10-30-2011 01:11 AM|
|10-30-2011 01:05 AM|
|rics1997||I think that Jeeps are like Harley's. You have fans and haters in either. Those that hate on Harley's say the vibrate too much, over priced and so on. But the reason the are priced as much as they are is partly because they hold their value so much. I think it could be cheaper but why would Jeep lower prices when demand is at a all time high. Jeeps are an icon in 4x4 history. They have become famous for their look and ruggedness and with fame comes those that love them and those that hate them.|
|10-30-2011 12:35 AM|
I probably should have some kind of TJ but I am tall, 6'4", and find most Jeeps to be pretty cramped for me. The JK is not. So, I paid more for my JK than any vehicle I have purchased in my life. I hope it lasts. It is an enjoyable ride that makes me happy, unless I have to fuel it. That is another rant though.
|10-29-2011 06:00 PM|
|10-29-2011 05:55 PM|
I paid slightly over $22k for a 4x4 convertible that seats four. Look at the competition in that class, for that money. Wait, you cannot.
I kept it simple, and wouldn't be afraid to get it dirty.
I think some people add a bunch of window dressing, gadgetry, and fluff driving the price up- they cry that it's not a value "for the money".
The Wrangler is an absolute steal when viewed for what it is. When trying to make it what it isn't, it may expose its flaws and be tougher to live with.
I love my Wrangler- but I think I love it for all of its characteristics because of its price range. If I spent $40k on a gilded mall crawler I might get a bit miffed at the rough edges. For what I spent, I think it's a steal.
Now, as far as general hatred:
It's all about expectations. Some folks buy a vehicle and think that's the last dime they should spend. Some folks simply by the wrong tool for the job.
Others take no view of their own culpability in how a vehicle has held up.
I ran a motorcycle business for years with both domestic and foreign brands, and we performed warranty work on all. Some brands got a pass, and others were lambasted.
All I can tell you is that everytime I step to my Jeep, I grin ear to ear- and I get a feeling more four-wheeled conveyances cannot give this motorcyclist.
|10-29-2011 05:15 PM|
|10-29-2011 05:12 PM|
I researched it so thoroughly that I almost felt sorry for the salesman, who seemed to be fairly limited in knowledge.
I'm hoping there will be no problems with it, but if there are I'll deal with them and move on.
|10-29-2011 04:37 PM|
I wanted mine for so long that I knew exactly what to expect, both good and bad.
I've been fortunate in that it's all been good so far!
|10-29-2011 12:42 PM|
|Jeepin Dave||For love/hate, how does the Grand Cherokee compare to the Wrangler?|
|10-29-2011 11:33 AM|
|Boxerjeep12||I just got my first jeep 2012 jk wrangler, I love it, it's so much fun to drive, it's gives me this great feeling ever time I drive it around, for the dollar value I spent its just priceless!|
|10-28-2011 10:47 AM|
I also think a good bit of the hatred comes from people who buy a Jeep because of the status...the ruggedness appeals to them, as long as said ruggedness doesn't include water dripping down the interior door panels, squeaks and rattles, etc.
On any given day you'll find half a dozen posts complaining about these things. I'm not saying they have no right to complain; spend +/– 30K on a vehicle, you're allowed to bitch.
But I think a fair percentage of first-time Jeep owners haven't educated themselves enough on the brand to know exactly what they're getting into.
|10-28-2011 10:12 AM|
|10-28-2011 09:50 AM|
|10-28-2011 09:44 AM|
|ShoreWrangler||Wrangler is about the only vehicle I know that is just as much fun and capable in the snow as it is in the sun. Not many other convertibles out there you can drive around in a foot of snow. It's probably the first true year-round vehicle I have owned|
|10-28-2011 09:44 AM|
|10-28-2011 09:43 AM|
Well, I agree and disagree. ALL vehicles are overpriced in my opinion, but they cost so much to produce anymore, and I'm not starting a political argument. I would like to know how much profit Chrysler actually makes on the Wrangler. I'd bet it's not that much. I think sheer volume of sales helps keep the wrangler price where it is. But I could be wrong.
When you look simply at the parts list on a stock Wrangler Sport, you can justify the price a little more. That's some pretty heavy duty stuff (comparatively). Just look at what and other real 4x4 vehicle costs in comparison. The Sahara is a premium over the Sport, and you pay for it. I wouldn't personally, but I can't blame others for paying more for what they want. The Rubicon upgraded parts alone would probably cost you more to have them installed yourself, so that in itself is a good value. Obviously for those that are more hardcore, neither upscale trims make sense, because you're replacing those parts anyway.
I mean, a 2012 Wrangler starts at $22045 (2012 Wrangler | Trail Rated 4x4 Sports Utility Vehicle | Jeep.com). Look at what else you can get for that price. Can any of those vehicles do what a Jeep can do? Or even come close?
|10-28-2011 09:31 AM|
Pricing is proportional. The base models may offer the best value but they are still over priced. An 09 like my X is not worth $18K - $20K but that is what they bring.
As for the Tracker, it is a great example of the driver not the vehicle. Go take a look at the Crown Victoria in Moab clips on Youtube. It will put thing into perspective.
|10-28-2011 09:22 AM|
I'll agree that with your statement. But I too think they are a bit expensive, well, if you're getting the higher up models and not the base.
Although, I was at the Bad Lands once in Attica, IN, and I saw a Jeep wrangle get stuck in the sand dunes while a stock Tracker on simple A/T's was making it up all of them without any issues. The Jeep guy was pissed!
|10-28-2011 09:19 AM|
|tjt94||I enjoy my Jeep but I definitely would not be thinking that it is a value for the price. Jeeps, in my opinion, are very expensive and overpriced. Their cash flow is high but maybe that is offset by slower depreciation. However, I don't buy vehicles with plans of how much I might get for it in a few years.|
|10-28-2011 09:13 AM|
|Mr. Sinister||Well, that's part of my point. There's isn't really anything else like the Jeep. There have been imitators, but they never last. No other currently produced small truck or SUV is as nimble on the trails, or as capable overall in the bush as the Wrangler. Let's also not forget about price.|
|10-28-2011 09:08 AM|
I'll agree that the Wrangler is quite capable stock, and it has it's advantages, but you have to remember, if you narrow down the options of what you're looking at only then yea, it's the only option, but if you widen the criteria to include more, than there's other vehicles that fit the bill. As for the replacement for the s10, I never have and never will like them. But anyway, it all depends on what your criteria is, for me, a Jeep isn't number 1 in my criteria, for you, it may be. But to each their own.
Side note: if they produced the J8, that'd be sweet as I love pickups. Too bad the Honcho isn't made anymore. But the Gladiator concept was pretty sweet too.
OP: The most love/hated vehicle on the planet, I can think of plenty others that fit that criteria. Riced out cars, Hummer H2, donks, etc.......
|10-28-2011 09:03 AM|
Gas mileage in my auto JK is 18/24, better than any full size gas truck that I know of. But again, apples to oranges.
S10 isn't produced anymore, and it's replacement isn't what I'd call a winner on the trails. I have seen a few kitted out ZR2's and they are pretty capable, but again, they can't go all the same places a little Jeep can.
|10-28-2011 08:54 AM|
I have been saying that for years. Not the most high tech cars, not the most well built cars, but for performance per dollar, nothing touches it.
Well, there is the Nissan GT-R now.......
|10-28-2011 08:51 AM|
^^^When you say Capable and Versatile, are you strictly talking in off-road capabilities? Because I can think of plenty of other things a Wrangler can't do. I haul a quad in the bed of my truck, haul construction supplies, or my own gear for college. I can't do any of that in a Wrangler, and a trailer is invalid as I could haul a trailer behind most vehicles. Not to mention, my truck still gets better gas mileage than any TJ.
But if you're talking off-road, the S10 ZR2 was a nice platform that could do just about as much as a stock Wrangler. Oh and I'm talking about the pickups, I hate small SUV's.
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