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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-29-2007 07:19 AM
scotiez Thanks for everyone for participating in the poll. It is quite surprising though. I figured the Automatics would walk away with the poll votes. I've been watching this since i started this and it stayed almost dead even. I know im happy with either or, I can drive both Auto and Manual, So i was just wanted to see what people prefered.
Hope everyone has a happy new year. And Drive Safely.
12-25-2007 01:07 PM
2much I have the newer 6 spd manual and I love it, I don't think my jeep would be near as much fun with an auto, that being said, I know (and have experienced) the downside of a manual in rocks, but to me if really like driving a manual you get used to it, and as to having to work the clutch in traffic, it just comes along with having a manual, to each his own.
12-23-2007 11:22 AM
Triple88a one of the reasons why i wouldn't get an auto for my tj is the only 3 gears... I would love to see some 1 swap a cvt tranny into a wrangler though.
to me also manual is more fun than auto
12-23-2007 11:06 AM
bluvikng
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BLKJP View Post
Ah, the age old debate.

I'm down with the Auto crowd. Of course I'm a rock crawler and stalling out on a vertical waterfall is no fun. And neither is launching up the same waterfall because you had to hammer the gas and clutch.

You are so right, an age old debate. Nothing works better than what is best for you. What is more comfortable for you. Don't do something, because you think it is status Que, if it doesn't feel right, for you. On another note, wheeling on rocks with a standard, is all about final crawl ratio. It is really that simple, and most people don't understand that principle. A turtle can walk faster than my YJ, in first gear, and in the low side of my t-case. You simply multiply your first gear ratio by the ratio of your t-case X the gear ratio in your axles, and that gives you your crawl ratio. Mine is 6.65 X 5.44 X 4.56 = 164.96 Anything over 80 is very respectable, so you can see that it would take alot, to stall me out........
12-23-2007 02:10 AM
tobycat1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruhlahan View Post
manual for me. .. but I don't do any rock crawling, not really my thing.. I prefer wheel spin and mud flying.. but then again, I drag race too
Same here, I just manually shift my auto if i feel the need.
12-23-2007 01:00 AM
ruhlahan manual for me. .. but I don't do any rock crawling, not really my thing.. I prefer wheel spin and mud flying.. but then again, I drag race too
12-23-2007 12:13 AM
mr4x4 Well if you get the auto you can drink your beer with your free hand
12-22-2007 02:40 PM
tobycat1
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupy1957 View Post
Tobcat1 is right about sitting in traffic. I work around that by flipping the tranny into Neutral, and not sitting on the clutch at a Red Light.

Sometimes, if the road is level and I'm not rolling forward or back, I'll even take my foot off the brake (something you can only do in an automatic when on an incline, when your automatic tranny will hold you still; although not recommended by the manufacturer), so that I have both feet and legs "at rest."

Perhaps the ability of the automatic to "hold" a vehicle at a certain incline, helps the rock-climbing crowd as well, in some ways.



-Soupy1957
I usually just put it in neutral at stops so i can release the brake.
12-22-2007 02:36 PM
Scotty355 Went to lentech and it's a Ford Automatic tranny set up like I did mine only professionally. you can get manual valve bodies from B&M if you don't have alot of money.
12-22-2007 02:29 PM
Triple88a read the comments, he explains it a bit. I wanna see pics though
12-22-2007 02:22 PM
Scotty355 I'd like to see how that works, sounds interesting.
12-22-2007 02:20 PM
Triple88a In the comments the owner says its a fully manual tranny..
12-22-2007 02:19 PM
Scotty355 I did put a reverse manual valve body in my 68 dodge the gear pattern went
P-R-N-1-2-3, I had to shift thru the gears up and down but I still considered it an automatic because it was still based on an automatic transmission.
12-22-2007 12:21 PM
Triple88a Scotty try this...
Manual tranny w/ a torque converter.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jtrORSLzoOk
12-22-2007 09:27 AM
catoct
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobycat1 View Post
He's about to buy a lifted brick on wheels, Gas mileage obviously isn't a priority
It may not be a priority, but it is of concern when you use it as a dd, and since he is considering to get an almost 10 yr old Jeep, money is obviously a factor because he is getting it as a dd with some wheeling - if it was for wheeling only, different story.

...on the other hand, he is talking about lifting and putting 35s on it - so maybe you are right..., gas mileage does not seem to be a concern
12-22-2007 08:01 AM
Scotty355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple88a View Post
some 1 made manual tranny w/ a torque converter..
I do not remember that one but there was the clutch flight, an auto trans with a clutch used in drag racing mopars. dump the clutch to launch off the line then no missed gears. You do not see them anymore due to the invention of the trans brake... sry a little off topic..........
12-22-2007 05:24 AM
soupy1957 Tobcat1 is right about sitting in traffic. I work around that by flipping the tranny into Neutral, and not sitting on the clutch at a Red Light.

Sometimes, if the road is level and I'm not rolling forward or back, I'll even take my foot off the brake (something you can only do in an automatic when on an incline, when your automatic tranny will hold you still; although not recommended by the manufacturer), so that I have both feet and legs "at rest."

Perhaps the ability of the automatic to "hold" a vehicle at a certain incline, helps the rock-climbing crowd as well, in some ways.



-Soupy1957
12-22-2007 04:54 AM
compshooter I agree with what Jerry said, though I do have to chime in on one point. Using the gas to inch up, hold steady, or back down can slightly is a big advantage with the slushbox. However, with a good setup, the same thing can be achieved with a stick, minus the backing down. For example, in my junk that also has done the Hammer trails, it is a RF151 5 speed tranny, followed by dual transfer cases. The first case has a reduction gear of 2.28 and the second case has a reduction of 4.7. Combined, with 5.29 gears and 35's, over all ratio is 223, or 47 to 1 with just the first case or 98 to 1 with only the back case. Then select your gear in the tranny. With a dual case setup, there is 20 different forward speeds to chose from. One will surely work for any 5+ rated trail.

Overall jist of this statement is if one better than the other? No, in my opinion, it is what works for the driver. Manual transmissions have their place, as do automatics. Having driven an auto tranny on True Grit in Parker, they are nice for the rocks. Personally, I think autos make rockcrawling easier, which to me makes it a little more enjoyable. However, I also believe that a stick shift gives the driver more options and controls speed better than an auto, but then that's what brakes are for.

End statement, comes down to personnal preference!
12-22-2007 03:11 AM
Triple88a some 1 made manual tranny w/ a torque converter..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobycat1 View Post
He's about to buy a lifted brick on wheels, Gas mileage obviously isn't a priority
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but its more like a cinder block w/ a brick on top or something of that kind...
12-22-2007 01:38 AM
Jonny15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350chevrolet View Post
Jonny15: i will be putting D60 axles in it. i got them out of a ford truck and just need to cut them to size and weld tj brackets on them.


Very nice
12-21-2007 11:48 PM
tobycat1
Quote:
Originally Posted by catoct View Post
If you use it more as a dd, I'd prefer the stick - you'll definitely get better gas mileage than on that old (three gear?) automatic. However, you said the one you are looking at is a good deal, and that's probably what you should go by. Automatic on a dd can be good as well, if you sit in a lot of traffic (which I luckily don't).
He's about to buy a lifted brick on wheels, Gas mileage obviously isn't a priority
12-21-2007 11:46 PM
tobycat1 If you sit in traffic, then get an auto. Its just so much more convenient
12-21-2007 11:15 PM
mr4x4 if you like the manual buy a manual if you like the auto buy that
but as far as only the three speed auto the 2003 and newer tj's have the 4speed overdrive trans
but so do the xj's and if I was to put the overdrive trans in it would probably be the xjs auto its easeir for me to find
but then I would be running 4.88's instead of 4.56's

It really depends on what you prefer
12-21-2007 11:00 PM
350chevrolet wow i sparked a good discussion here didnt i. i still cant decide what to go with. i do love manual but it seems that auto is the way to go. in my bmw it had an auto and after i killed 3 in 100k miles i put in a manual and have since put 200k miles on it (yes the car has over 300k miles on it) so i know manuals last but if auto is the way to go in a jeep i guess i will do that (even tho manual is more fun).


Jonny15: i will be putting D60 axles in it. i got them out of a ford truck and just need to cut them to size and weld tj brackets on them.
12-21-2007 03:51 PM
Jonny15 i believe that if you do alot of crawling an auto tranny is probably more desirable. I have a manual tranny though and i just think its much more enjoyable to drive a manual rather than an auto. I like the fact that a manual tranny connects you to the vehicle much better than an auto. I dont do alot of crawling, almost never actually....my offroading is usually limited to trail runs here in NH so a manual tranny works just fine.

Now i could see if you do some serious crawling i can see how an auto would be much more desirable, and if thats the type of terrain you consistantly run on, or you have a purpose built crawling machine, than i would deffinitely agree that an auto would be a better choice simply because it takes the clutch out of the equation. I would also imagine you would burn through clutches pretty fast if you do alot of crawling with a manual tranny.

For almost any other offroading though i would have to give the nod to the manual tranny simply because of of my personal opinion. I believe a manual tranny connects you to the vehicle better and offers you more choices with gear selection. Plus manual tranny's are just damn plain fun to drive

So the way i see it, unless a manual tranny offers a great disadvantage for the type of offroading you do, such as crawling, theres no reason not to get one....unless of course you dont like driving a manual tranny to begin with, but who doesn't???

But to answer your question both the manual and auto tranny's will hold up just fine for wheeling, i'd be more concerned about whether or not you have a D35 in that jeep if you plan on wheeling with 35's....if you really want to put 35's on it probably more important than what tranny to get is to look for one with a D44 instead of the D35
12-21-2007 03:45 PM
scotiez Well Here in North Dakota and Northern Minnesota we don't have any rocks. Mostly what we do is trails through the woods. I have had both Automatics and Manuals my whole life. When i finally purchased my Jeep i was looking at both transmissions. I choose the one that i thought was the best deal and the vehical that was kept in the best shape. Mine happens to be a 5 speed Manual and i am loving it. I don't live in a big city were theres alot of traffic and this is my everyday vehical. I am very happy with my manual, but if i found an automatic that was in the shape i wanted, and for the best price i am sure i would have been equally happy with that. No one is ever going to win the battle between Manual or Automatic transmissions. Each and every one of us has there own preferences which makes this a great subject for a debate. All i know is what ever makes you happy, then go for it.

Happy Holidays to everyone
12-21-2007 03:03 PM
soupy1957 Wow! Such drama!! Sounds like I've stirred up a bees nest. (not intentionally).

Merry Christmas to YOU, too!

-Soupy1957
12-21-2007 01:40 PM
lost I personaly like manual. it keeps me entertained while driving and helps me pay attention to driving
and i like rowing through the gears while mudding
12-21-2007 12:55 PM
4.0l sahara
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupy1957 View Post
Per capita, you will most likely find those in favor of automatics for serious climbing, and I can't take a side on that issue.

I can however simply offer this humble observation. When I control what my transmission does, (because really, the ones who prefer the automatic for climbing are really saying they don't want the clutch as part of the equasion, and it's not really about the shifter itself), I find that I can regulate the behavior of the motor within the parameters that "I" set. (right or wrong, in some cases).

the concept of total control (IMHO) seems to say something about the skill level of the operator, or lack thereof.

If you truly believe, as it would seem in your posting, that you may not necessarily be doing much extreme climbing all that often, why not stick with what you are most used to, (and in your case, that seems to be a manual tranny). If there is some sort of deficit in operating with a manual, you'll find out, and can always change it later.

-Soupy1957
ya a standered might be good on rocks if we had 3 legs but we don't
12-21-2007 12:16 PM
Steelman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Soupy1957, you infer that those of us who are recommending automatics have less skills, or that we don't really know how to drive with our manual transmissions. Not true. I learned to drive a stick in 1963 so that gives me over 40 years of experience driving manual transmissions. Is that enough experience for you? So far on my '97 TJ that has a 5-speed manual transmission, I have put 175,000 HARD miles on it. I dare say I can handle the transmission and clutch on the rocks as well as anyone. If I didn't know what I was doing with the manual transmission on the rocks, I dare say I wouldn't have gotten 167,000 miles out of the original clutch before swapping it as insurance against it finally going out in the middle of another run through Sledgehammer in Johnson Valley made earlier this year.

However, my first love in offroading is rock crawling. Get your butt out of Connecticut and come rock crawling with us out in the deserts of Southern California, especially in Johnson Valley where you you find the transmission of choice among the hardest-core rock crawlers you'll find is an automatic. It's getting pretty darned rare now to see anyone still wheeling that level of trail with a manual transmission.

Go to any championship level rock crawling event and you'll be VERY hard pressed to find more than a few manual transmissions. Competitors long-ago switched to various forms of automatic transmissions.

Why? It's not just for the simplistic view that it just gets rid of the clutch and makes things easier as you look down your nose at. The bigger reasons are the low-end torque multiplication the automatic's torque converter provides, and the infinitely low first gear ratio benefit that magical torque converter also provides. Hold your place on on a steep obstacle climb with a little gas, back down a tad to take a different line by letting off the gas a tad, a little more gas to inch back up as needed, etc. THAT is the added control you gain with an automatic that those who know WTF they're talking about are referring to.

Going with an automatic for harder trails like many of us do (check out my website, link below) is not because we are any less skillful with a manual transmission than you are. Get out on some 5+ rated (trails out here are rated 1-5) trails like we wheel on and you'll soon understand the benefits of an automatic transmission. Which is why I'm about to start the conversion to an automatic on my rock crawler TJ. The new auto tranny is sitting in my garage awaiting installation which should start next weekend. I'm about the last one still remaining with a manual transmission in the hardcore bunch I prefer and enjoy wheeling with.

Does all this mean you need to be a rock crawler to enjoy the benefits of an automatic transmission? Of course not. On easier trails, it doesn't matter what transmission you use. But on tougher trails that aren't always necessarily always full of rocks, the automatic transmission's benefits are still there. I'll say it again... the tougher the trail, the more an automatic shines. That is not limited solely to rock crawling. There are plenty of non-rock crawling trails all over the US that are tough enough to warrant the recommendation for an automatic transmission. Those who don't wheel on that level of trail likely would not understand the benefits to be gained with an automatic.

So you can take your "the concept of total control (IMHO) seems to say something about the skill level of the operator, or lack thereof." comment and put it where the sun doesn't shine.
What he ^ said!
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