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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-30-2011 06:35 PM
hayhonker I've been reading headlight threads from years ago as my first mods are going to be lighting related. I think I'm set on LED aux lighting (pending some responses in another thread) but haven't decided on a factory upgrade yet. I was THIS close to going the Trucklites route before stumbling on Hilldwellers thread/review. So, at this time (Dec 2012) it seems the Cibie/Osram H4 conversion is still the way to go. And the Hella would be a great 2nd choice.
11-23-2011 09:00 AM
brainofj01 Awesome. Good to know it's not hard at all. The lights in it are absolutely terrible from factory!
11-23-2011 08:51 AM
bo9roadking
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainofj01 View Post
I just got my Crush 2012 in today. I've been looking at upgrading to the kit you keep mentioning. I'm not a wrench type guy, but have done some in the past. How hard would it be to do this conversion? Any write-ups on exactly how to do it? Estimate in time to complete?
I did the Rallylights Hella H4 Headlight conversion and it took me about an hour or so to do.

I had to remove the front grill that doesn't require any tools unless you have problems removing the fasteners. I used a lot of zip ties to attach the wiring harness that came with the kit to another harness that was already mounted under the hood following the same path where I had to run the new wiring to both Hella headlights. I needed a screwdriver to remove the stock headlights and install the new Hella lights. I don't recall using any other tools.

If you want to permanently attach the wiring harness relays then you might need to drill a hole under the hood. I just zip tied them to some existing harnesses that were under the hood near the battery.
11-23-2011 07:43 AM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainofj01 View Post
I just got my Crush 2012 in today. I've been looking at upgrading to the kit you keep mentioning. I'm not a wrench type guy, but have done some in the past. How hard would it be to do this conversion? Any write-ups on exactly how to do it? Estimate in time to complete?
Very easy job, maybe an hour....here's some tips for you..

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/ral...all-73538.html
11-22-2011 05:47 PM
JeeperJake I'm done the same Dan Stern upgrade kit. Took the guy I hired $60 to do the whole job, barely an hour.

I'm so pleased with the choice, I'm planing on the fog light upgrade as well. It's hard to find local in stock dealers with housing units without the whole kit that I don't need.

Looking at a variety of switches, but discovered my harness came WITH a spiffy switch.

Per someone here tip, it might even mount in the cig lighter. We'll see soon.
11-22-2011 05:33 PM
brainofj01
Quote:
Originally Posted by off a cough View Post
I used the kit in the thread below. The relay mounting is different than the instructions due to battery placement next the Jesus Motor™ in the 2012s, but it is a dramatic, legal improvement for just a couple hundred dollars. Get the Phillips Xtreme bulbs with the kit.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/ral...all-73538.html

I just got my Crush 2012 in today. I've been looking at upgrading to the kit you keep mentioning. I'm not a wrench type guy, but have done some in the past. How hard would it be to do this conversion? Any write-ups on exactly how to do it? Estimate in time to complete?
11-21-2011 07:42 PM
jon316
Cibies and harness from Daniel Stern Lighting

I installed Cibie lenses and reflectors with built-in parking light (future use), Osram 70/65W Bilux H4 bulbs, and a new harness in my 2011 JK Wrangler. (Based on information a gathered from this forum.) The difference is worth the cost ($376.38) and the time for install (about 2 hours).

I bought the harness wired for driving lights, again, for future use, so the cost is a little higher and the harness is slightly more complex. But, now adding driving lights will be a cinch.

I do a lot of night driving on Interstates and backroads in Pennsylvania and Maryland and the stock lamps were just terrible. The eye fatigue alone made the upgrade worth the work.

I like the cutoff of the Cibie lenses and no one has flashed their brights at me, even with the offroad Bilux bulbs.

Go ahead, pull the trigger and contact Daniel Stern Lighting.

The first picture is of the relays on the firewall behind the battery. You will see a gray-jacketed wire labeled, "L Headlight," running along the firewall. Tip: Label the wires before you run them. The second is of one of the Cibie lenses.


Attachment 78845Attachment 78846
11-20-2011 07:03 AM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthEastJK View Post
I'm confused on which bulb to get. Philips or Osram?
Going with cibes. Which (cheaper) backup bulb to get?
From my use, the Osram 70/65's seem to be a better fit for the Cibies....

The Phillips are too white for me, but they are a great bulb and may work for your night vision..?

I'm currently testing some cheap Wagner "off the shelf" bulbs from my local NAPA, just for availability when I need a couple bulbs quickly...so far the 60w Wagner H-4's aren't too bad, yesterday I picked up some NAPA Harley bulbs for testing next week driving to work.

It's my opinion that with the bypass harness, new Cibies and H-4 bulbs you will see a great improvement with nearly any H-4 bulb....I'd say go with the Osram 70/65's though...
11-20-2011 06:19 AM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeeperJake View Post
Question on BULB spares:

What is the anticipated 'normal use' length before replacement on the DS 70/65 setup? And do you carry them IN the rig or leave at home until needed?

Were you out on the road and one blew, what is the strategy, given maybe being 400 miles from home?
I only had one blow "on the fly" ---- and I carried spares. Swapped them both at the same time.
Headlights are so important that maybe swapping them regularly at the time-changes isn't a bad idea? Fall back, change your bulbs; spring ahead, change your bulbs.
11-20-2011 05:50 AM
cu in oz The more I night drive with the Phillips bulbs in the more I really like my lighting. The low beam pattern is VERY good. High beam is much better. I just ordered a second (spare) set to have on hand as I've noted several state about low bulb life.

Frankly, I would highly suggest that anyone cosidering headlight changes FIRST change to the Phillips bulbs. Then if your happy your only out 30-odd bucks. If not, you still have great bulbs for yout upgrade. Seems like a win-win.

Many thanks to 'Hilldweller" for his efforts.
11-20-2011 12:15 AM
off a cough I used the kit in the thread below. The relay mounting is different than the instructions due to battery placement next the Jesus Motor™ in the 2012s, but it is a dramatic, legal improvement for just a couple hundred dollars. Get the Phillips Xtreme bulbs with the kit.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/ral...all-73538.html
11-20-2011 12:12 AM
bbrown626 I have been running the rallylights.com Hella H4 conversion for a few months now with Hella 80/100 bulbs. Fantastic light with great cutoff. I have yet to be flashed. I have been on the road with my wife passing by in the Jeep and me in my in my little commuter. The lights are not blinding at all. Even if you go with less powerful bulbs the rallylights.com kit is an impressive improvement over stock. Well worth the investment.
11-19-2011 10:28 PM
NorthEastJK
Quote:
Originally Posted by krutj View Post
I'm sure Bill will be here to tell you the same thing, I've got both, actually I've got Cibie Z-beams that I bought from Hilldweller...the Cibies are superior, period...what is important is to get the right bulb for them and have all your aux. lighting to compliment the headlights...

There is more to this discussion, especially about foreground lighting and white/blue and long range sight for the human eye...

Get the Cibies .............
I'm confused on which bulb to get. Philips or Osram?
Going with cibes. Which (cheaper) backup bulb to get?
11-19-2011 06:08 PM
2012-Rubicon
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeeperJake
Were you out on the road and one blew, what is the strategy, given maybe being 400 miles from home?
Pull out your tool kit and change it?
11-19-2011 03:24 PM
JeeperJake Question on BULB spares:

What is the anticipated 'normal use' length before replacement on the DS 70/65 setup? And do you carry them IN the rig or leave at home until needed?

Were you out on the road and one blew, what is the strategy, given maybe being 400 miles from home?
11-19-2011 02:41 PM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by krutj View Post
These are coming from NAPA, and are Wagners, do they make their own bulbs?
I can't say I know much about Wagner lighting or Federal Mogul ---- I don't think they'll be as bright as anything from Phillips/Narva/Osram...

Drop by; I've got a meter and a fresh battery.
11-19-2011 07:04 AM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
The Cibies give a wider, more even spread of light; the Hellas shoot a Deathstar beam of light straight ahead --- with an emphasis on foreground lighting on lowbeam and a higher than average highbeam.
That Hella pattern works for some people; you have to be the judge.
But the Cibie works better for most people. I'd rather have Cibies most of the time.

As for bulb life, I got longer life from the Phillips Xtreme Powers; the Osrams always blew pretty fast.
An alternative would be the Narva Rangepower; I have a version of these in the Power Wagon and like them.
Osram used to make a Silverstar too but I can't find them anymore --- not to be confused with the American Sylvania Silverstar (junk).
And don't ever think of PIAA, Delta "xenon", or IPF Fatboys --- all just gimmick nonsense.

Joel --- the Harley bulb is likely a rebranded Rough Service Bulb; they'll likely look okay in the Cibie housing with the bypass harness ---- not as bright as all the others, not by a longshot, but should last much longer.
I can notice a difference in the 60w Wagners that I've got in now, compared to the Osram 70/65, but it's pretty darn good in the Cibies, and at $9 each they are a deal, I'm picking up the Harley bulbs this AM and trying them to see if they are a viable replacement, they a under $11 each.
I'm certain that I'll get another set of the Osrams, but I'm looking for some options and a local place to pick some up quickly, as you know, I'm popping them every 3-4 months due to the amount of use they get....

These are coming from NAPA, and are Wagners, do they make their own bulbs? I should have more info after I get them.(these HD bulbs have a pretty high lumen rating)
11-19-2011 06:15 AM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthEastJK View Post
Hilldweller, heres a question for you.

I have been holding off on the Cibes due to the complete price with harness is >$300. Rally lights are around $225.
The difference between OEM & Hella is known to be miles. I have seen the graphs (the ones that show spread). Is the difference between Hellas and Cibes worth the price? Living in the 'burbs with lots of deer and many more creachers roaming the roads.

Lets hear your professional lighting opinion Hilldweller .
The Cibies give a wider, more even spread of light; the Hellas shoot a Deathstar beam of light straight ahead --- with an emphasis on foreground lighting on lowbeam and a higher than average highbeam.
That Hella pattern works for some people; you have to be the judge.
But the Cibie works better for most people. I'd rather have Cibies most of the time.

As for bulb life, I got longer life from the Phillips Xtreme Powers; the Osrams always blew pretty fast.
An alternative would be the Narva Rangepower; I have a version of these in the Power Wagon and like them.
Osram used to make a Silverstar too but I can't find them anymore --- not to be confused with the American Sylvania Silverstar (junk).
And don't ever think of PIAA, Delta "xenon", or IPF Fatboys --- all just gimmick nonsense.

Joel --- the Harley bulb is likely a rebranded Rough Service Bulb; they'll likely look okay in the Cibie housing with the bypass harness ---- not as bright as all the others, not by a longshot, but should last much longer.
11-18-2011 04:19 PM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthEastJK View Post
Hilldweller, heres a question for you.

I have been holding off on the Cibes due to the complete price with harness is >$300. Rally lights are around $225.
The difference between OEM & Hella is known to be miles. I have seen the graphs (the ones that show spread). Is the difference between Hellas and Cibes worth the price? Living in the 'burbs with lots of deer and many more creachers roaming the roads.

Lets hear your professional lighting opinion Hilldweller .
I'm sure Bill will be here to tell you the same thing, I've got both, actually I've got Cibie Z-beams that I bought from Hilldweller...the Cibies are superior, period...what is important is to get the right bulb for them and have all your aux. lighting to compliment the headlights...

There is more to this discussion, especially about foreground lighting and white/blue and long range sight for the human eye...

Get the Cibies .............
11-18-2011 04:08 PM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by CG3 View Post
No auxiliary lighting. Just the two headlamps. He recommended (and I bought) the Osram 70/65w. Bought a second set too for back-up.

Thanks again for spending the time to educate us on lighting
Good idea..^ I'm only getting 3-4 months from either the Phillips or Osram bulbs..currently I'm trying some off the shelf NAPA bulbs..made by Wagner. They are almost as good as the Osrams, but we will see about the longevity. Today I stopped at my local Napa and ordered some different bulbs for Harleys, way more candlepower...picking them up in the AM and will try them out...just an option...these are pretty good bulbs and if you blow a low beam or such, you can get these very reasonable..$9-10 each.
11-18-2011 03:50 PM
CG3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post

You'll love them, Carlolyn.
What bulbs did he talk you in to? Did you get some driving lights too?
No auxiliary lighting. Just the two headlamps. He recommended (and I bought) the Osram 70/65w. Bought a second set too for back-up.

Thanks again for spending the time to educate us on lighting
11-18-2011 02:52 PM
NorthEastJK Hilldweller, heres a question for you.

I have been holding off on the Cibes due to the complete price with harness is >$300. Rally lights are around $225.
The difference between OEM & Hella is known to be miles. I have seen the graphs (the ones that show spread). Is the difference between Hellas and Cibes worth the price? Living in the 'burbs with lots of deer and many more creachers roaming the roads.

Lets hear your professional lighting opinion Hilldweller .
11-18-2011 07:03 AM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by scicero1 View Post
Hilldweller? you mean jaw dropped because they were too bright? or not bright? im confused...Im looking for bright. I only drive at night, usually off road, vision problems. Im looking for bright as heck if possible
Jaw dropped --- as in they produced almost no light on the road. But when you approached the Jeep, you were rewarded with blinding pain and torched retinas.


If you want scorchers and will also run supplemental lighting, get the Hella kit from Rallylights. The highbeams on them are hellacious. Get the Osram 80/85 bulbs ----- they won't last very long but will throw glorious light.
But, again, for offroad.... Be like Spiderman and use your powers for good.

The weak point of the Hellas are they amount of foreground light they make on lowbeam; too much foreground light (foglights do this too) rob your distance vision by constricting your pupils. The lowbeams are also narrow and don't provide much light to the side of the road.
To work around this, use supplemental lighting in fill in the gaps. A pair of drivers to come on with the highbeams (Cibie Super Oscars are great and Hella Rallye 4000 Euro-beams are good) and a pair of Hella Micro DEs to supplement the lowbeams...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CG3 View Post
X2. I read all I could find, followed Hilldweller's recommendations, contacted Daniel Stern (super nice fellow btw....) Have received my headlamps/bulbs, waiting on the harness to get installed. Can't wait. Headed for snow country soon... and driving at night up the mountain (or even daytime when it's dark and snowing) can be downright scary when I don't have adequate lighting... which I don't with my Wranger...

Thanks Hilldweller.
Thanks Daniel Stern.
You'll love them, Carlolyn.
What bulbs did he talk you in to? Did you get some driving lights too?
11-17-2011 11:11 PM
CG3
Quote:
Originally Posted by damon.l View Post
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

i didnt bother to read all the comments, so if im late to the party nevermind.

ill be going through daniel stern to upgrade EVERYTHING regarding my headlights, including wiring to support higher wattage bulbs. a friend of mine just changed out the entire system in his 92 toyota 4runner and to be honest its amazing how much usable light there is. it looks absoutely amazing. if you go this route look at around $350 or so on the high end.
X2. I read all I could find, followed Hilldweller's recommendations, contacted Daniel Stern (super nice fellow btw....) Have received my headlamps/bulbs, waiting on the harness to get installed. Can't wait. Headed for snow country soon... and driving at night up the mountain (or even daytime when it's dark and snowing) can be downright scary when I don't have adequate lighting... which I don't with my Wranger...

Thanks Hilldweller.
Thanks Daniel Stern.
11-17-2011 10:55 PM
scicero1 Hilldweller? you mean jaw dropped because they were too bright? or not bright? im confused...Im looking for bright. I only drive at night, usually off road, vision problems. Im looking for bright as heck if possible
11-04-2011 12:33 PM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thracks View Post
I thought headlights were only illegal when they're too bright, which is why I found it odd that a headlight can be not that bright and illegal at the same time.
To be legal, headlights have to meet either DOT standards or ECE standards; it's up to the manufacturer to assay the product. A goniometer is used as well as markers at various points. The light must make a calculated amount of light in the target areas --- this also means that it must miss certain areas.
To do this, manufacturers use a variety of bulbs, reflectors, shields, & lenses. Everything works together to put the right amount of light on the road in the right places... ...and not blind oncoming drivers or you.

The IPF reflectors scatter light all over the place. IPF makes no claims that they're for street use; that's done by retailers.
You won't see them for sale in countries that care about headlight performance; the retailer would go to jail...
11-04-2011 12:30 PM
krutj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thracks View Post
I thought headlights were only illegal when they're too bright, which is why I found it odd that a headlight can be not that bright and illegal at the same time.
Lights need to be E-code tested to be legal, my Cibies and Hellas both have E-code on the lens...and I think blue lights are illegal just about everywhere.
11-04-2011 12:29 PM
damon.l Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

i didnt bother to read all the comments, so if im late to the party nevermind.

ill be going through daniel stern to upgrade EVERYTHING regarding my headlights, including wiring to support higher wattage bulbs. a friend of mine just changed out the entire system in his 92 toyota 4runner and to be honest its amazing how much usable light there is. it looks absoutely amazing. if you go this route look at around $350 or so on the high end.
11-04-2011 11:47 AM
Thracks I thought headlights were only illegal when they're too bright, which is why I found it odd that a headlight can be not that bright and illegal at the same time.
11-04-2011 11:30 AM
Hilldweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo9roadking View Post
It makes perfect sense. The headlights are not street legal. They also put out poor lighting and a poor dispersion pattern ...
Thanks for translating.

I count to 20 every time I see a reference to the IPF reflectors. I still don't keep my composure though.

I have a set of those lights on the bench in my garage still. They belonged to TJLewis and he had them in his JK when we tested them. His jaw dropped when we metered them.
We put a set of Hellas in his Jeep and his jaw started working again...
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