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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-22-2011 05:19 AM
00tj2 So it's ok to remove the trac-bar??
11-21-2011 11:38 AM
O_M_Jeep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman641 View Post
For the record, the sway bar isn't going back in it. Not until I can see some substantial proof as to why I should have it. I haven't been hurt by not having it. As for those who are saying that having that puny little sway bar doesn't hurt a thing, have you tried wheeling without it? If you're running a tall rig with big tires, then yeah, I'd leave that thing in there for sure. Heck, I'd even build/buy a bigger one to replace the nice plastic links it uses. For me, on 31" tires and a 2" BB, it helps a TON. That's all I'm saying...
So, here's the score:
No Sway Bar:3
Sway Bar: 6,999,999,997 people.
If you haven't tried running without it, I dare you try it. If only for a quick drive around your block. If you don't like it, don't do it. It's YOUR rig.
Yes, I have and do run wihout it, and I would bet through Moab, the Natl Forests of Wyoming and Colorado, western Arizona and the off road comps I do every year I wheel harder than you do, in fact I probably wheel harder than you do just leaving my driveway. Its not very smart to make statements like "I dare you to take off your sway-bar" and think you know what your talking about when you didnt know you couldnt take off a trac-bar. (and for the record, I run 33"s on a 4.5" lift, no sway-bar since lifted)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman641 View Post
Now, I would like to point out that the original question had to do with the rear TRACK BAR. Which I must admit, I was quite sure you couldn't remove. I just wanted to see if anyone had ever even tried. I knew it'd be dangerous to drive without it since the axle could move about more freely. I just wanted to be 110% sure.
We read trac-bar, but tried to give you the benefit of the doubt as to not being so stupid as to think that if you took off a trac-bar that it wouldnt be dangerous and have no lateral stability, common sense and a little thought should have made that evident, so we stupidly gave you the benefit of not being stupid and thought maybe you got the terminology wrong, it happens a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman641 View Post
Here's a short anecdote to hopefully get where I'm coming from across.
My buddy and I used to wheel in AZ and his TTORA friends laughed when he pulled the sway bar in his Tacoma, because who would remove parts that Toyota had obviously put there for a reason? But hey, with some Camburg coil overs, it rides better than stock and I daresay is is better offroad than many Jeeps I've come across.
I question openly how many that is, youve shown here pretty clearly you need all the help you can get and being confrontational isnt the best way to get it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman641 View Post
My point is this. It's your rig, build it your way. I'll take advice all day long, but please,please don't insult my intelligence by implying that I don't know what COG is. I love to learn new ways of wheeling, I love pushing myself and my Jeep as far as it can go, but really? You think I never noticed that my COG moved as the vehicle approached, climbed, and descended off an obstacle? Thanks, and I hope everyone enjoyed this overly long and fruitless thread.
Your "COG" doesnt move, unless you have no TRAC-BARS, you should spend a little more time reading and a lot more time learning before you ask questions, I think you'll find that everything you want to know has been answered twice already and when people are willing to assume you had intelligence you didnt and give you the benefit of doubt and assume you meant sway bar as only a very inexperianced and thoughtless dangerous person would ask about removing trac-bars. When you have some time, thought, and money invested in your stock Jeep you'll then also have some experiance and wont have to ask these kinds of questions.
11-19-2011 07:00 AM
geiman I wouldn't bother arguing with him; he had his mind made up before he posted and you're not going to change it with logic.
11-19-2011 03:42 AM
InvertChaos Quoting Jerry

Quote:

Basically, coil spring suspensions need it. Leaf spring vehicles don't. It helps keep the front and rear axles working together instead of fighting each other, and it helps keep the body better connected to the suspension so it stays put instead of wanting to tip more from just the springs holding it. A rear antiswaybar can mean the difference in tipping or rolling over on an extremely steep or off-camber trail, and not tipping or rolling.

Not to mention that disconnecting the rear antiswaybar does not increase the amount of usable rear axle flex/articulation. The axle may droop more but without an accompanying downward force on the drooping tire that the antiswaybar helps couple to the side/tire with the least traction, it's of no use.

Take a trip out to a hardcore trail like you'll find out in Johnson Valley to watch the really well set up Wrangler TJs run. You'll discover the better set up TJs are running f/r antiswaybars, with often an Antirock at least up front if not f/r. Both my last and present TJ have a stock rear antiswaybar with extended heim-joint links with an Antirock antiswaybar up front.
11-19-2011 01:30 AM
jeff316 It's probably because most of you are used to ur jeeps but when I did my lift and had no away bar connected in front I was shitting bricks I couldn't take a turn without feeling like I was gonna flip, now with the quick discos connected super huge difference, now I can actually speed up on the highway without the fear of someone cutting me off cuz I know I can avoid it.
11-19-2011 12:28 AM
Snowman641 For the record, the sway bar isn't going back in it. Not until I can see some substantial proof as to why I should have it. I haven't been hurt by not having it. As for those who are saying that having that puny little sway bar doesn't hurt a thing, have you tried wheeling without it? If you're running a tall rig with big tires, then yeah, I'd leave that thing in there for sure. Heck, I'd even build/buy a bigger one to replace the nice plastic links it uses. For me, on 31" tires and a 2" BB, it helps a TON. That's all I'm saying...
So, here's the score:
No Sway Bar:3
Sway Bar: 6,999,999,997 people.
If you haven't tried running without it, I dare you try it. If only for a quick drive around your block. If you don't like it, don't do it. It's YOUR rig.
Now, I would like to point out that the original question had to do with the rear TRACK BAR. Which I must admit, I was quite sure you couldn't remove. I just wanted to see if anyone had ever even tried. I knew it'd be dangerous to drive without it since the axle could move about more freely. I just wanted to be 110% sure.
Here's a short anecdote to hopefully get where I'm coming from across.
My buddy and I used to wheel in AZ and his TTORA friends laughed when he pulled the sway bar in his Tacoma, because who would remove parts that Toyota had obviously put there for a reason? But hey, with some Camburg coil overs, it rides better than stock and I daresay is is better offroad than many Jeeps I've come across.
My point is this. It's your rig, build it your way. I'll take advice all day long, but please,please don't insult my intelligence by implying that I don't know what COG is. I love to learn new ways of wheeling, I love pushing myself and my Jeep as far as it can go, but really? You think I never noticed that my COG moved as the vehicle approached, climbed, and descended off an obstacle? Thanks, and I hope everyone enjoyed this overly long and fruitless thread.
11-18-2011 11:31 PM
O_M_Jeep I haven't run a rear sway bar in over a year, I have the no handling issues, no body roll issues, and no tire wear issues, they are not necessary. The reason no one makes quick disconnects for the rear is unlike the front, when you disconnect the rear the sway bar is still attached to the axle housing, that makes it impractical as its in the way connected or not.
11-18-2011 11:14 PM
freeskier No body is laughing at you man. All I see is honest, helpful advice as to why you should be running a sway bar.

And obviously you don't know about weight shifting because you think some tools rattling around is the type of weight shifting we're talking about. There are things such as your roll center, instant center, center of gravity, etc. weight is constantly shifting around, and if it isn't properly controlled you are going to have traction issues or rollover issues. Your front and rear sway bar are one of many factors that work together to control weight shift.
11-18-2011 11:14 PM
InvertChaos The rear sway bar doesn't limit usable flex and controls body roll on and off road. The front sway bar isn't designed very well and limits articulation off road. That's why you only see front disconnects. Stock front sway bars < disconnected < currie antirock/sway lock
11-18-2011 10:56 PM
Snowman641 By "keeping up" I meant that when I get invited out, I have no difficulty keeping pace with them. I don't need to be winched, I don't need a spotter, I just bounce along in my driver's seat and enjoy the road. Heck, most of the time I'm the tail gunner because I know I'll get through and so I'm watching out for everyone else.
Yes, my 2006 TJ had a nice sway bar in the rear end and it's done fine without on freeways with 4+ lanes of traffic, and also in tight, off-camber situations where other vehicles have lifted tires and required locking....
Am I the only person who has actually tried this? Or has everyone else done it and blanched at the results and reinstalled it? If you've done it, I'm all ears. If not, it's just heresay. The only springs I've unseated where the fronts. The rear doesn't travel as far and the front end does, and so it doesn't seem to have the same issue... Or, perhaps I haven't flexed it as hard as the front. I know for trying to lose the front coils that I won't because my bumpstops keep them on. Maybe I'll lose a rear, but I haven't yet!
And isn't installing a new sway bar with longer links, as well as putting in taller springs and longer shocks another way to increase wheel travel? I'm just saying that if you don't have the money, try it for yourself AND THEN you can comment on how stupid I've been and how I have no idea how to off road and how I must be a mall crawler since I seem to know nothing about weight shifting off road which is why I make sure to tie down every loose tool,object, and person that is in my rig.
11-18-2011 10:55 PM
friedfish First off, don't try and keep up with anyone. Do what your comfortable with. "Keeping up with rubicons" will get you on your side easly.

Will you get more flex by unhooking your rear swaybar? Yes,but I don't see anyone here saying you should do it. There's a ton of really crafty people here when it comes to getting more out of there rigs. And most will agree that on a stock design suspension its not a wise choice.

The 2 things holding your springs in there buckets on the back end are your shocks and your swaybar. Its been addressed that you can unseat them easly when flexing hard. But the last thing you want to do beng a broke collage student is leave a trail on 3 springs. I have known it to happen and its a real pain to have to walk a trail looking for a spring. Hopeing you can get your missing spring back.
11-18-2011 10:53 PM
Wrangler06
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6InARowMakesItGo View Post
tjs do better off road with their rear anti sway bar connected. why do you think nobody makes a rear quick disconnect system for a tj?
2006 2.4L TJs (which is what I have) were built from the factory without a rear anti sway bar and Yes, I am 110% positive that it does not have it. Handles just fine on the highway at 75 mph with a 2.5" lift on.
11-18-2011 10:47 PM
freeskier You act like on road is the only place where stability matters. That cant be further from the truth. Uncontrolled weight transfer is what can really get you in trouble offroad.
11-18-2011 10:24 PM
Snowman641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
You're thinking about this all wrong. With coil/link suspension, obviously you can't remove the track bars--you get that. They will also work much better with sway bars due to the influence they have on the relationship between the frame and axles. If you want to improve, get a front Currie AntiRock sway bar and keep the stock rear bar. That will "force" your tires to remain on the ground as they work with each other.

You're also putting 'flex' on a pedestal, when there are more important things to focus on. You can't gain more articulation without longer shocks....and on 'short' arms, don't bother going past 12" travel. With stock springs, anything past 10" is pointless since you'll be unseating the coils. Judging by your profile picture, you wouldn't be able to use more shock travel. Soon after the shocks become your limit, the stock control arms and track bars come next. Any time you flex out hard, the control arm bushings are screaming since they have next to no miscalignment. Some good, less-obstructive joints will allow you to take full advantage of the shock travel you have while also eliminating points of failure. Not to mention the huge improvements in axle constraint and handling. Currie is the top dog in that department, as well.

Lastly, get a front auto-locker.
Yes, that will force the tires onto the ground. Except when you out flex your sway bar, as in my picture where the rear driver tire can't touch the ground,in which case your tires are now dangling in the air and with an Open diff, that doesn't work.
Next, I don't have money. I'm a broke college student who would love to run new shocks,trackbars,coils, and everyone's favorite, lockers. You're right of course. At a certain point your shocks lock up and your coils become unseated and you stuff tires into your wheel well where they bite into the fender and then you're really stuck. I've done it and know all about it.
My point is this. If you're broke, trying to save money for a whole new suspension, but still want to keep up with Rubicons and not get babied every time you take your Jeep out, you need to think outside of the box. Do my control arms hate me? Sure. Do I unseat coils? Of course, but only when I'm actually trying to unseat them. If I wanted to spend some time on it, I could mount limiting straps which would keep me from losing the coils, and I could replace the bumpstops so that I don't bite myself, but that doesn't happen all that often, and it's my own fault when it does.
My goal is to keep rubber on the ground and the best way to do that without spending money to let it all hang out as it were. Sway bars and track bars are designed to keep the vehicle under control. Sometimes you need to let go of some that built in stability and just go with your gut and figure out your limits and the vehicles.
11-18-2011 07:13 AM
Imped You're thinking about this all wrong. With coil/link suspension, obviously you can't remove the track bars--you get that. They will also work much better with sway bars due to the influence they have on the relationship between the frame and axles. If you want to improve, get a front Currie AntiRock sway bar and keep the stock rear bar. That will "force" your tires to remain on the ground as they work with each other.

You're also putting 'flex' on a pedestal, when there are more important things to focus on. You can't gain more articulation without longer shocks....and on 'short' arms, don't bother going past 12" travel. With stock springs, anything past 10" is pointless since you'll be unseating the coils. Judging by your profile picture, you wouldn't be able to use more shock travel. Soon after the shocks become your limit, the stock control arms and track bars come next. Any time you flex out hard, the control arm bushings are screaming since they have next to no miscalignment. Some good, less-obstructive joints will allow you to take full advantage of the shock travel you have while also eliminating points of failure. Not to mention the huge improvements in axle constraint and handling. Currie is the top dog in that department, as well.

Lastly, get a front auto-locker.
11-18-2011 04:34 AM
6InARowMakesItGo please read post 6 and 18 in this thread. i can't really put it any better than this.

Do I really need the rear sway bar - JeepForum.com
11-18-2011 02:49 AM
Snowman641
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6InARowMakesItGo View Post
trust me. look at some of jerry's posts. incase you don't know he's the man who knows what he's talking about. coil springs need their rear anti sway bar. do a search here and on jeepforum
Yes, you need the rear TRACK BAR so that your axle doesn't move left/right in relation to the frame. The rear SWAY BAR, the piece with the nice little plastic bits that act as sway links, is not necessary. It does help mitigate body roll through turns, but having the front sway bar connected and leading with the front so that it bears the majority of the weight and acts as a "pivot point" for the vehicle works fine too when going through turns at high speeds.(What can I say? I used to run home-built prerunners and my family used to rally so I drive fast )OR, you can simply slow down when entering turns.
I'm not doubting his knowledge at all, I was just pointing out that the reverse works too, and that's why my rear track bar will be staying right where it is. I've run with them both disconnected on road, usually with my 4pt on, to scare the crap out of my passengers and for fun, but having at least 1 connect on road is the way to go. Pick one and run with it. I'm going to keep the front connected on road and the rear off because the rear links are plastic and my front ones are chromoly.
11-18-2011 02:21 AM
6InARowMakesItGo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman641 View Post
Really? I've had more problems with the rear wheels losing traction and spinning out, as is demonstrated in my avatar, than without the sway bar. I out flex nearly everyone I wheel with and I don't bind the driveshaft with the drop or bite the fenders like I do up front. As far as why people haven't made one, maybe people aren't dumb enough to crawl underneath, drop it, and then risk life and limb driving it However, I talked to RE at one point and they said you could use a quick disco system and modify it for the rear end no problem. They simply didn't make one for a two inch spacer lift.
trust me. look at some of jerry's posts. incase you don't know he's the man who knows what he's talking about. coil springs need their rear anti sway bar. do a search here and on jeepforum
11-18-2011 01:47 AM
Snowman641 Really? I've had more problems with the rear wheels losing traction and spinning out, as is demonstrated in my avatar, than without the sway bar. I out flex nearly everyone I wheel with and I don't bind the driveshaft with the drop or bite the fenders like I do up front. As far as why people haven't made one, maybe people aren't dumb enough to crawl underneath, drop it, and then risk life and limb driving it However, I talked to RE at one point and they said you could use a quick disco system and modify it for the rear end no problem. They simply didn't make one for a two inch spacer lift.
11-18-2011 01:28 AM
6InARowMakesItGo tjs do better off road with their rear anti sway bar connected. why do you think nobody makes a rear quick disconnect system for a tj?
11-18-2011 12:39 AM
Snowman641 I run it vice versa. Off road I don't use either, but I leave the front end connected on road. But hey, every rig and driver is different I guess.
11-18-2011 12:21 AM
Redsand just make sure you at least hook up the rear for street driving, the front not so much, i drove without my front for several years before i put it back on a few weeks ago, due to the excessive wind we have been having
11-18-2011 12:16 AM
Snowman641 Awesome, thanks! Yeah, I've got discos up front and removed my rear sway bar already which has helped. As far as bumpstops go, I have them, but they don't keep my tires from biting into the fenders. The most they do is keep the springs on during extreme down-travel flex.
11-18-2011 12:10 AM
Redsand leave the trac bar connected, but you can unhook the front sway bar for some good flex, just make sure you have bumpstops
11-17-2011 11:38 PM
Snowman641
Just to clear this up

Ok, I have a 2006 TJ which is stock save for the 2" spacers that the PO put in. Since I've got "baby" tires, 325/60/15s and this a crapy suspension, I'm always looking for ways to increase my flex since I'm Open/Open and can't afford to put tires in the air. Having said that, I was looking at my pulling my track bar/building a quick-disco system for it. I know YJs and leaf-sprung vehicles drop it because, well, they have leaf springs, but coils can't run without the track bar because the axle will slide left and right and that stresses both the control arms and the driveshaft, right? I've never gotten a clear answer, and some guys I've talked to said not to do it, but they would never even think of pulling the rear sway bar so I just want to clear this once and for all.

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