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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-24-2012 05:37 PM
Red Sector A All I have to offer after reading this thread is to say that the people that frequent this forum often take an enormous amount of their own time and effort to help others out. To that end, daggo gets my respect for his patience and for trying to keep things factual. In other forums I participate in, threads like this can and do go south quickly when emotions start taking the place of facts, or when opinions blind people's judgement. I read this thread with interest because I had my own similar discussion with a salesperson at a NY dealership - who, to his credit I suppose, simply said he couldn't explain why the sticker would indicate a delete for an item that was actually included. Fortunately, I went with a dealer who could explain it to me, didn't pressure me and ultimately earned my business To the OP, congrats on your new Artic. I'll take you up on the aspirin lol this thread hurt
01-24-2012 05:09 PM
stans1stjeep Just a suggestion: Go to your local dealer, you have to do that anyway. Let them show you the in-stock Wranglers they have on the lot, ask questions and make physical comparisons. You may find, as I did, that the dealers order the most popular option groups and colors. If you don't like what you see/hear, go to another dealer. I am fortunate that I have a dealer that I like and trust. I've been buying cars and truck from him for over 10 years. You can always special order your Wrangler, and if you do, this forum will be helpful in sorting out details, like final drive gear ratios, etc. None, or few of us are Jeep sales people, so we are probably not able to explain the order option details as well as a trained salesperson. ( I know I'll get some feed back on this, but I'm trying to be helpful.)
01-24-2012 04:48 PM
hotdog7u812
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
If you're happy that's all that matters. I have no intention to try and prove a point to you. I stand by my statement that special editions are not a means of saving money. You got a great deal. Many dealers will not move that much on special editions. It makes no sense for them to do so. It's an Arctic, not a Yeti. At least you got the Jeep and not the land cruiser. That's all that really matters at this point.
Amen! I am sure that Fullerton still made money or they wouldn't have solicited me with the TRUECar.com Savings Certificate offer to purchase my Jeep at $2010 below Dealer Invoice...I did NOT have to haggle or negotiate my price one bit!
01-24-2012 04:40 PM
daggo66 If you're happy that's all that matters. I have no intention to try and prove a point to you. I stand by my statement that special editions are not a means of saving money. You got a great deal. Many dealers will not move that much on special editions. It makes no sense for them to do so. It's an Arctic, not a Yeti. At least you got the Jeep and not the land cruiser. That's all that really matters at this point.
01-24-2012 04:25 PM
hotdog7u812
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
The Wrangler comes in 3 and only 3 variations. Sport, Sahara, and Rubicon. Read that statement again and keep it in your mind as you read further.

Jeep creates special editions from time to time. These special editions start with one of these 3 variations. The Islander and Mountain editions were based on the Sport. The Arctic is based on the Sahara and the COD MW3 is based on the Rubicon. Certain things have to be added to create a "standard" Arctic. Those editions are otherwise "options". If you want a body color hard top on a Sahara, you (or your dealer) orders it as an option. An Arctic is a Sahara that already has a body colored hardtop (option) as standard. The only way to order an Arctic is with a body colored hard top, so IN MARKETING BROCHURES AND IN THE BUILD YOUR OWN JEEP, it is going to be listed as "standard" to that special edition. The window sticker doesn't list it as standard, because in effect there is no such thing as an Arctic. There is ONLY Sport, Sahara, or Rubicon.

Now let's say you order an Arctic, but also want the Soft top. You have to order it as an option because the body colored hard top deleted it. That option is the Dual top option. You are now adding a soft top to the body colored hard top for $890. Adding just a soft top would normally cancel out the hard top because you can't have 2 tops unless you order DUAL tops. The whole point of that is to avoid confusion, which for most people works.

I am trying to be as over simplified as possible. I know there are other parts to the Arctic, but I'm trying to give you a generalized example to explain the principle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
The idea of these special editions is for the dealer to make money, not for you to save money on packaged options. That's why there is always something on there that you can't get any other way, such as stickers and interior trim.
So you see then where you were not necessarily correct when you posted the above responses previously in this thread...The Arctic made way more cents because it DID save dollars as a result of the package and what it included... the body color hard top alone would have added 1716.00 to the Sahara then add another $890 for the soft top to complete the dual top option...not to mention the package included heated seats, slush mats, tail light guards, rubicon tires/rims, upgraded suspension, and limited edition gauges, upholstery and hood decals among other key features, all for an additional $3999 on the Sahara base price...definitely cost effective and a money saver in my book!!! This is why it was so important to me to understand EXACTLY what each model included as standard so as to make an informed and intelligent purchase where I was getting the most for my money! It pays to do your homework. My 2nd Jeep had this sticker on it: If you are not outraged you are not paying attention....Lovin' my Yeti....and the price I scored it for!
01-24-2012 03:52 PM
daggo66 Which simply means that what is normally an option is part of the arctic package.
01-24-2012 03:24 PM
hotdog7u812 Oh did I forget to mention...BOTH tops ARE standard equipment and KEY features of the 2012 Yeti Package!! FYI Daggo...
01-24-2012 03:11 PM
hotdog7u812
Update

Ok...all of the dual top and which model includes what as standard arguments aside, I just wanted to update y'all on the conclusion of my search saga...
On December 16th, I purchased my new vehicle...

2012 Jeep Arctic Edition
Winter Chill Blue
Body Color hardtop/sunrider soft top
Arctic Pkg.
Temperature Control A/C
Remote Start
Limited Slip Differential
430N Audio System w/navigation & 1yr. Sirius Satellite Radio incl.
Dual side Airbags

Sticker Price: $40,330
Dealer Invoice: $37,557
TRUECar Price Protection Certificate: $2,010.00 below dealer invoice
Jeep Customer Loyalty Rebate: $1,000.00
Total Cost of 2012 Yeti w/above options: $34,547.00!!!

THANK YOU FULLERTON CHRYSLER DODGE JEEP AND RAM!!
1054 US Highway 22, Somerville, NJ Scott Zedowski 908-722-2500 Special Thanks Eric!!

A no fuss buying experience at a price no other dealer would touch!! Basically, the whole deal was put together over the phone. This dealership was upfront with information and details other dealerships refused to disclose . My whole experience with Fullerton has left me knowing without question that I not only received the best possible price on this Jeep but that I was dealing with the most transparent and reliable dealership that I have ever done business with. The integrity and honesty practiced by Fullerton in their business transactions was refreshing and made for the most pleasant negotiation and car buying experience ever! I can't recommend TRUECar.com and Fullerton Chrysler Dodge Jeep and Ram highly enough!

Sitting Pretty in my Yeti! Jeep on Jeepin' On!
Lia
12-19-2011 06:56 PM
ThePalmBeachYeti I got it and no I did not get a sun rider top or reimbursement but I did get everything else plus some more than I bargained for.

My new Jeep is Awesome!

I am very satisfied
12-14-2011 07:06 AM
daggo66 Holy crap! That's exactly where I bought the Mustang!
12-14-2011 07:04 AM
blackforestgreen
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
I've made plenty of mistakes and have owned up to them and I'm pretty much headed there anyway. I currently have 4 vehicles technically. Two Jeeps, a Corolla for my youngest to drive and my older daughter just bought her first car with my help, so my name is on it.

I ordered a new vehicle from the factory one time. It was a 1985 Mustang. It took over 3 months to arrive. I got a very good price on it so I was convinced they sold off the one I ordered and were waiting on others to arrive. It stalled quite often when I drove it and they couldn't figure out why. I started rooting around under the hood and I found a bunch of unconnected wires hanging off the wiring harness. I took it back and told them to fix it. They said that they couldn't because they didn't have a wiring diagram for it. (this was the first year of a redesign) My SIL had the same car so I parked next to her, spliced the wires together, then took it back to Ford and told them to properly connect and solder the wires.

Ever since then I have just chosen exactly what I have wanted off the lot and have never gotten more or less than I've wanted. I do all of my research first so that when I walk on the lot I know what I'm looking for.

I can certainly understand the trepidation involved with ordering a vehicle and then being concerned whether it is the way you wanted it or not. Some people seem to thing that it is a "custom" order and "special" just for them. It is neither. They just slap your name on the next production cycle that fits what you ordered. People get themselves so stressed over waiting for it to arrive. One member here actually made his trade in advance and when it arrived he was dismayed to discover it had a two-tone interior. As much as he hated it, he felt compelled to buy it anyway and now he's unhappy.

Purchasing a vehicle is a business transaction. Keep it all business until you drive it off the lot and you will be much better off.
another graduate of katys ford and chuck laytons school of how not to buy a car????????????????
12-13-2011 06:09 PM
albertschmitz
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
Purchasing a vehicle is a business transaction. Keep it all business until you drive it off the lot and you will be much better off.
Exactly this is a business and you need to keep that in mind. Never forget that you hold the power in your shoes and wallet, "Put it in your pocket and walk" the best medicine in the showroom for butterflies.

The pretrades rarely work out for the customer, it is so the dealership can pre profit on the sale and then "hold" the money until the ordered vehicle arrives. I would recommend keeping the trade and Craig's list it until your Jeep arrives and hopefully make more money than the dealership will give.

I will be happy to answer questions about how the real deals work and what is a fair price on a vehicle but my expertise is in the Chrysler, Ram, Jeep, Dodge and Ford franchises. I have been in the business from sales to management for 24 years now.

Again not here to sell (don't want to step on toes here) to you just assist or help.
12-13-2011 05:48 PM
albertschmitz
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdog7u812 View Post
Thank you for the info. Funny that you came back with that $38,400 figure. That is the exact number I have submitted via eBid, Edmunds, etc..for competitive internet bids on the Arctic.

Too bad you aren't closer (how far are you from central NJ anyway?) because I'd do business with you in a heartbeat just for being so upfront. As you may have been able to perceive if you read some of my prior posts, confusing/misleading information does not sit well with me. I prefer transparency...I don't like to feel like I have been taken advantage of. I understand the dealer needs to make his cut, but it shouldn't come thru deceptive pricing/business practices or taking advantage of one's patrons.

I'm reviewing the offers as they come in. Hopefully this will score me the Jeep I want while sparing me the headache of haggling with high pressure salesmen.

You have a Great Weekend Albert!

Lia
Sorry for the delay, work needed me, I am in the center of Iowa. Just a little bit away from Jersey.
12-13-2011 07:11 AM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jk'n View Post
.even he can make a mistake . Although I haven't seen it yet..... But I'm keeping an eye on him.........when he does....then straight to heIl he goes!
I've made plenty of mistakes and have owned up to them and I'm pretty much headed there anyway. I currently have 4 vehicles technically. Two Jeeps, a Corolla for my youngest to drive and my older daughter just bought her first car with my help, so my name is on it.

I ordered a new vehicle from the factory one time. It was a 1985 Mustang. It took over 3 months to arrive. I got a very good price on it so I was convinced they sold off the one I ordered and were waiting on others to arrive. It stalled quite often when I drove it and they couldn't figure out why. I started rooting around under the hood and I found a bunch of unconnected wires hanging off the wiring harness. I took it back and told them to fix it. They said that they couldn't because they didn't have a wiring diagram for it. (this was the first year of a redesign) My SIL had the same car so I parked next to her, spliced the wires together, then took it back to Ford and told them to properly connect and solder the wires.

Ever since then I have just chosen exactly what I have wanted off the lot and have never gotten more or less than I've wanted. I do all of my research first so that when I walk on the lot I know what I'm looking for.

I can certainly understand the trepidation involved with ordering a vehicle and then being concerned whether it is the way you wanted it or not. Some people seem to thing that it is a "custom" order and "special" just for them. It is neither. They just slap your name on the next production cycle that fits what you ordered. People get themselves so stressed over waiting for it to arrive. One member here actually made his trade in advance and when it arrived he was dismayed to discover it had a two-tone interior. As much as he hated it, he felt compelled to buy it anyway and now he's unhappy.

Purchasing a vehicle is a business transaction. Keep it all business until you drive it off the lot and you will be much better off.
12-12-2011 04:01 PM
jk'n I have two vehicles (three since my son is about to get his license) but for the last 24 years since I have been married it has been two. We generally get new ones every 10 years or so. So I average a transaction for a new car every 5 years or 4 depending. Lets just say I don't do this very often. I may be similar to many out there. I too hate being bamboozled. So when I saw the fancy foot work on my sticker it caught me by surprise. I am familiar enough with accounting that when you offer something for sale that has many options: 1. it can be pretty confusing adjusting the transaction for option(s) and 2. you are so nerved up during the transaction it can get downright frustrating trying to make sure that all of the I(s) are dotted (except the capital ones) and all of the T(s) are crossed. There are all sorts of accounting tricks in double entry accounting systems with credits and debits for instance that sometimes it takes a PhD in accounting to figure it all out. Nobody likes to be cheated. Mistakes do happen. Most of what I have seen above have been explained pretty well by daggo.....and don't let that go to your head Tom . God forbid.......even he can make a mistake . Although I haven't seen it yet..... But I'm keeping an eye on him.........when he does....then straight to heIl he goes!
12-12-2011 03:12 PM
daggo66 Set in my ways? If that means knowing that you need to order the dial top option to get both tops, you're right, I'm set in my ways.
12-12-2011 03:08 PM
ThePalmBeachYeti
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
You don't add an engine either.

Look, you can argue all you want and add all your little passive aggressive digs, it's not going to change the facts. I don't need to argue because I own a Wrangler already. I was trying to help answer some questions. Since you already know all the answers, go ahead and buy your Wrangler already.

You probably could in Europe with a diesel, or if the srt8 becomes available here next year.

It is surprising that with it written in clear text you still don't see it
You seem to be set in your ways and I am fine with that
Simply was trying to enlighten, not to argue
12-12-2011 02:54 PM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
I think at this point your best suggestion is to tell them to buy a Land Cruiser and there won't be any confusion on what top.
12-12-2011 02:54 PM
kjeeper10 My god (pun intended) this is really the Jesus jeep.
12-12-2011 02:52 PM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jk'n View Post


This thread appears to be coming to a close. I wonder if you can tell how I know........

daggo, I saw your comment above.....I hope you weren't picking on me.....you know my feelings are hurt easily.....
Me pick on you? Never.

You were smart enough to realize what was going on when the actual wording was shown to you. Not everyone is capable of that it would seem.
12-12-2011 02:48 PM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePalmBeachYeti View Post
Online brochure you say

Why wouldn't it pertain to anything if it is nothing more than an online brochure

For example

You don't add a spare tire in build my own because it is included in Key Features



Build my own allows you the ability of adding features not included in key features such as

Limited-Slip
Tow Package
etc.
You don't add an engine either.

Look, you can argue all you want and add all your little passive aggressive digs, it's not going to change the facts. I don't need to argue because I own a Wrangler already. I was trying to help answer some questions. Since you already know all the answers, go ahead and buy your Wrangler already.
12-12-2011 02:36 PM
jk'n

This thread appears to be coming to a close. I wonder if you can tell how I know........

daggo, I saw your comment above.....I hope you weren't picking on me.....you know my feelings are hurt easily.....
12-12-2011 02:33 PM
ThePalmBeachYeti Online brochure you say

Why wouldn't it pertain to anything if it is nothing more than an online brochure

For example

You don't add a spare tire in build my own because it is included in Key Features



Build my own allows you the ability of adding features not included in key features such as

Limited-Slip
Tow Package
etc.

Edit
In addition
Would it be safe to say that the dual top option. Are for every model Wrangler available?
12-12-2011 02:20 PM
daggo66 That page is nothing more than an online brochure. Continue through to "build my own". I'll wait.
12-12-2011 02:05 PM
ThePalmBeachYeti Jeep - Compare Vehicle and Model Specifications - Highlights

If your trying to argue your point please click the link and I will refrain from calling you derogatory terms from public record or to your face, haha

Add Arctic & Look at all the Key Features.

Key Features

Freedom Top Storage Bag
Sun Rider Soft Top

"Features" what does the word mean to you


All that aside if it is a accidental typo it is what it is and requires someone to fix it, but as it goes I ordered a vehicle which is supposed to have everything it FEATURES.

Tell me you at least have a high School diploma because it is getting to the point where you need to focus less on extra curricular activities and more on basic reading.
12-12-2011 01:58 PM
sheetsd66 Save yourself some aggravation....go to another website, like cars.com, and build your vehicle. It'll give you both the MSRP and invoice price. Then get yourself a TL membership and take 1% off the invoice. Edmunds.com will let you build one too, I think.
12-12-2011 01:29 PM
rics1997
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
The idea of these special editions is for the dealer to make money, not for you to save money on packaged options. That's why there is always something on there that you can't get any other way, such as stickers and interior trim.
I think at this point your best suggestion is to tell them to buy a Land Cruiser and there won't be any confusion on what top.
12-12-2011 01:21 PM
basecamper
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbwwolf View Post
Favre's coming back, and wants to be a Viking. Just what I heard.
oh that hurt Not even Farve can help the Vikings this year
12-12-2011 01:19 PM
bigjerm646 How bout them!
12-12-2011 01:19 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by basecamper View Post
who?
Favre's coming back, and wants to be a Viking. Just what I heard.
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