|Today 09:13 AM|
|Barmanvarn||Well said bud.|
|Today 09:11 AM|
|Today 09:07 AM|
The online community for Wranglers is great, but be careful not to lose your perspective. Chatting on forums tends to make folks believe they're speaking with the ENTIRE ownership base, which they're not.
An overview of the forum population would make you think every wrangler owner is out there is a shadetree mechanic who wheels all weekend. Yet a look around on your morning commute will show you otherwise. Nobody joins a forum to post about how they've made no modifications, had no problems, and don't do anything particularly "jeepy" with their jeep.
Excluding those who have modified their suspensions, what percentage of 2007-2015 Wranglers do you suppose have had their bolts changed out? What percentage of those stock 2007-2015 Wranglers do you suppose have experienced death wobble?
The numbers are very, very low. Very low.
If you keep your suspension unmodified, your odds of ever experiencing death wobble (i.e., the primary reason you'd do the bolt swap being discussed here) are extraordinarily small. Not zero mind you, but very, very small. The risk of death wobble is simply part of having a solid front axle (something only the Wrangler does anymore to maintain its offroad superiority), and Chrysler's choice of bolts here wasn't the best to guard against it.
But that's not really a problem. There are undoubtedly many tens of thousands of stock JKs out there with many tens of thousands of miles that have never experienced death wobble and have never changed their bolts. Chrysler may not have used the very best bolts, but all vehicles are full of compromises and the vast (vast, vast) majority of users in this situation have no problem.
That said, you can swap out the bolts if you like. If you do so properly, death wobble will be even less likely on a stock Wrangler. And certainly if you modify your suspension by installing a lift, this would be something you'd want to add to the process.
|Today 08:43 AM|
If you stay stock, there shouldn't be anything to worry about as everything is torqued to spec at the factory.
If you start fiddling with things, then expect to fix it... or not.
|Today 07:58 AM|
|jg13jkur||Silly question, but in two weeks I'll be installing a lift. I went ahead and got the bolt kit. It came with 8 bolts (control arms), plus two more (track bar). Is the bolt kit for the front only? What about the bolts in the rear, are those fully threaded, no collar, too?|
|Yesterday 11:13 PM|
|H3br3whamm3r81||If you want to make lemonade from lemons, just think of it as getting acquainted with your Jeep's suspension. Better yet, upgrade your suspension (i.e., install a lift) when you do it, so you knock out two birds with one stone.|
|Yesterday 11:09 PM|
|Fr8dawg||The vast majority of lightly driven, street only, non modified Wranglers on stock wheels and tires will probably be fine with the threaded bolts... But why risk it? Dealing with death wobble at 30-40,000 miles where the average dealership mechanic will just start replacing things (other than the problematic bolts lol)... Or do it yourself off the bat and prevent future headaches.|
|Yesterday 11:05 PM|
|CrossOps||$32k brand new for a 2015, and this? I am a little taken back at the moment.|
|Yesterday 10:59 PM|
|Yesterday 10:58 PM|
There's no way to know. Easy test is, pick a suspension bolt. Remove it. If the bolt is fully threaded up to the head, then in all likelihood all the other suspension bolts on control arms and track bar are also fully threaded.
I really, really doubt the Jeep engineers will change the bolt design for the remainder of the JK's production. One, it will add more expense. Two, it will almost give the owners of the previous years a reason to go to the dealer and demand the dealer replace the "defective" fully threaded bolts. After all, if there isn't a problem with fully threaded bolts, why would (hypothetically) Jeep all of a sudden change the design?
|Yesterday 10:56 PM|
There are guys on here with bone stock under 10k miles that noticed unusual wear when changing the bolts. Cheap insurance to prevent Death Wobble!
|Yesterday 10:49 PM|
|CrossOps||Ok, I will go ahead and state that I am very new to jeeps. But to clarify... are you saying my brand new 2015 Wrangler is going to need to do this? Brand new?|
|Yesterday 10:16 PM|
|SteedGun||One more thing I did on mine. I put Tri-Flow on all the bushings as I put them back. The bushings will start to squeak once they dry out and it will drive you nuts trying to find the one squeaking. I know I spent almost a month hunting down some serious squeakers on my 2010. So, when I was replacing all the bolts on my 2014 I put Tri-Flow on all the bushings. Mine is quiet as a mouse.|
|Yesterday 08:56 PM|
|T3Knical5urg3||How is this not stickied? This is far more important then some of the other stickied topics.|
|Yesterday 05:43 PM|
|07-21-2014 08:16 PM|
|07-21-2014 06:48 PM|
|07-21-2014 06:36 PM|
I loosened all the bolts on the ground and and then put the Jeep frame on jack stands and the axle on smaller ones when we needed to support it or support it on one side or the other to let the other side down to put in springs. With the Jeep and axle on stands, we changed to bolts, one by one. Sometimes it took a little gentle persuasion to get the holes to line up. But if you do one at a time and everything is supported, it's never more than a 1/4 inch or so.
Once you're done and all the nuts are on securely, put the Jeep in the ground and go around tightening and torquing them. It ain't fun but it can be done. Don't tighten the nuts before it's on the ground. The idea of loosening the bolts and all the CA's and TB's is to let those rubber bushings relax. If you snug up the nuts in the air, you could compress the bushing and it will twist when you put the Jeep on the ground.
Now, if you want to cheat, you can leave the axles on jack stands for some of the bolts. Just too hard to get at, the rear mainly. The Jeep was sitting on the springs with just the tires off and the axles supported (one axle at a time, of course). That should sit at ride height if you position the jack stands at about ride height under the axle.
Having the extra stands was handy. If you don't have a smaller 2 ton pair, get some. If you don't have the 6 ton jacks, get those to get the Jeep higher in the air to give your self room to lower the axles.
|07-21-2014 06:25 PM|
Got it! That's what I was thinking but for some reason, I was doubting myself. So, for suspenion bolts, I could drive her up the ramps. For springs and shocks, I need to jack up the body so the entire axle/ wheel pair is off the ground.
So, how would you do springs/ shocks/ all suspension bolts altogether? You have to unbolt control arms and track bars while doing the spring/shocks, right?
If what I'm thinking is right, then I should be using jack/ jackstands on the body, then replace the suspension bolts and springs/shocks while Jeep is on jackstands, but don't torque suspension bolts to spec until Jeep is on ground. Is that right? If that's right, it would be a waste to get ramps for this install, right?
|07-21-2014 05:30 PM|
|07-21-2014 02:25 PM|
Since I happened to see this thread, I thought I'd mention I changed out my bolts, lowers and TB's, when I installed my 2.5 TF lift. 1800 miles and my bushing were already scored. Only a couple of trips off road, maybe 30 miles total out of the 1800 and nothing serious. Just two tracks and dirt roads with a bit of rocks but pretty easy stuff.
Glad I changed them out! It sucked loosening, removing, tightening and re-torquing all those bolts but I had to loosen and re-torque anyway with the lift install. Now, I have some piece of mind that my bushings aren't being torn to shreds.
|07-21-2014 02:10 PM|
Cool, thanks guys. I might just go with the Rhino ramps then.
I've never done suspension work on a Jeep. From my understanding, to install springs, you need to lower the axle with a hydraulic jack underneath. I'm not going to have any problem doing that with the Jeep on ramps, right?
|07-21-2014 01:22 PM|
|NoGaBiker||rhino ramps are what I've been using since 1995. Good stuff if you don't need a super high lift.|
|07-21-2014 11:47 AM|
I have used jack stands for years, but recently bought two sets of RhinoRamps ($45/set) and really love the convenience. They offer about 7" of lift and they're wide enough for stock Rubicon tires.
I use 4-low to make it easy to drive onto the ramps and they never slip on my driveway.
|07-21-2014 07:53 AM|
I wouldn't worry about a Jeep falling off the ramps sideways. Next to impossible. Assuming you can get it to climb up on all four ramps at the same time, without skidding some or all of them across your floor, you will be good.
I had so much trouble with ramps skidding that I drilled two holes in my concrete floor, inserted screw-in anchors, and then used a 2x4 that I would lightly bolt into those anchors any time I wanted to use ramps. I'd just nose the ramps up against the 2x4 and they would finally stay put. Otherwise, I've not had good luck. They do work better on coarse-finish driveway concrete than on slicker garage floors.
|07-21-2014 12:18 AM|
I was thinking about buying two pairs of ramps for the Jeep. Place each ramp in front of each tire, so each axle (pair of tires/wheels) ends up on top of a ramp once I drive up. That would give me more room to work underneath.
Question is, has anyone done this? I'm wondering if it's safe. I was thinking I can buy some 4x4s and stack them on each side of the ramp, in case a tire falls off the ramp, it won't send the entire Jeep down. Also, I could put chocks behind the tires while they're on the ramp.
I need to swap all four springs, all four shocks, and replace all the suspension bolts in a day or two. Just want to make this as easy as possible for me.
Here's what I was thinking of...supposedly adds 10" of space.
Amazon.com: Race Ramps RR-XT-2 67-Inch XT 2-Piece Race Ramp: Race Ramps: Automotive
|07-20-2014 04:49 PM|
If any of you end up doing the UCAs you might want to PM me as there are a few tricks to getting two of the bolts started. I can save you a lot of time.
|07-20-2014 04:06 PM|
She is done.
Just did this today. I know how to turn wrenches but do not work as a mechanic and I am OLD. Took me 3 hours with basic hand tools and a couple of breaks. All bolts looked good. LCA bushings were scarred from the bolts. 50K on the Jeep and have not had DW. Did not notice any difference after the change.
|07-06-2014 04:29 PM|
Read this entire thread over the long weekend. Lots of really good information, and I thank the contributors.
I am seriously thinking about changing tb bolts. I inquired at my dealer, and they refused to install any non-Mopar part.
I am a bit reluctant to tackle this on my own because I am not sure how to remove the stock bolts and then torque the new bolts to spec in the tight confines of the underside of the jeep. Perhaps the jackstand options will allow more leverage, but getting the proper tools into the tight areas looks daunting. Perhaps I am making this harder than it really is considering how many have successfully done this mod.
I think my first step will be to try and torque the stock bolts to spec. I suppose that if I can do that then I can tackle the bolt replacement.
|06-27-2014 06:16 AM|
Synergy Kit installed
Had the big Synergy Kit installed while doing the lift...
all bolts are in
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