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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-04-2014 03:24 PM
mika
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
That guy said that his mechanic showed him excessive wear throughout. He's replacing $1000 worth of stuff, yet people point to the bolts as the problem, lol.

It's an interesting problem because of course the steering components on all wranglers eventually wear - bushings get old, bolts stretch and loosen, damage occurs, etc. Looking at these bolts specifically, even if the bolt itself is perfectly snug and torqued, eventually the bushing around it is going to give. It's just a matter of time, and when it does, it doesn't matter what bolt you've got in place because no bolt will secure a worn bushing. With that in mind, every wrangler out there should eventually succumb to death wobble if it were only these bolts to blame. Yet it doesn't, at least apparently not.

And yet the bolts do seem to help some people. My guess is that the wobble only occurs when there is a combination of worn parts or damage which not only allows a certain amount of play in the linkage, but also allows the geometry to change such that the oscillation can occur. Toe in, caster - something else has to be wrong besides these bolts.

The real problem is that these bits are wearing out at 50,000, sometimes 20,000 miles, ostensibly on cars that don't even see the back country. Best thing anyone can do is to periodically inspect and re-torque everything.
12-04-2014 01:03 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaDude View Post
^ this

If "death wobble" were even a somewhat common issue with stock JKUs, there would be a huge uproar and a recall for sure, as it would pose a huge safety issue and open Chrysler up to massive liability.

I'll change my bolts if/when I do a lift. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/ju...e-1002441.html

There ya go.
12-04-2014 01:01 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaDude View Post
^ this

If "death wobble" were even a somewhat common issue with stock JKUs, there would be a huge uproar and a recall for sure, as it would pose a huge safety issue and open Chrysler up to massive liability.

I'll change my bolts if/when I do a lift. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it.
This is one of the most naive posts I have seen on this forum. I have a stock Jeep with death wobble at 20,000 miles. If you drive on the road all the time you will probably never get DW because you aren't pounding the front end. If you do some moderate offroading in a stock Jeep there is a very good chance you will develop death wobble.
12-04-2014 12:38 PM
Jedi9
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I've see both used so I don't know.
I just checked torque on mine (axle side was not torqued all the way) and same size bolt both ends. the standard socket fit tighter than the metric one and a fine thread 9/16 nut threaded easily on the stub of both bolts.
2014 JKU
12-04-2014 12:26 PM
All Terrain JK I have changed them on my '15 JK, wife's '14 JKU, and daughter's '11 JK. All had the same bolts and the same grooves worn in the bushings albeit worse on the '11.
12-04-2014 11:12 AM
BareBones13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalDan View Post
So I see this thread was started some time ago. I just took delivery on a 2015 JKU. It this still an issue?

I changed them out on my 15 JKU. They are threaded all the way through, which causes the issue along with not being torqued.
12-04-2014 11:07 AM
mika There's a good discussion of this on another forum which argues the bolts were never a problem but rather improper torque; i.e., if the sleeve is spinning like shown in the OP, then the bolt wasn't torqued right.
12-04-2014 10:34 AM
TacticalDan So I see this thread was started some time ago. I just took delivery on a 2015 JKU. It this still an issue?
09-27-2014 10:44 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpixel8 View Post
where? Edit: Haha, right on their front page. Thanks!!
rofl :d
09-27-2014 10:24 AM
Dpixel8
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post


Did anybody see Northridges recent deal
Free bolt kit with lift purchase ?
Where?

Edit: haha, right on their front page. Thanks!!
09-27-2014 08:03 AM
tabber02
Quote:
Originally Posted by myjeepandmydog View Post
I have a stock 2011 jku. Have suffered with death wobble for the last yr. Only 35000 miles. Dealer said replace steering stabilizer. Well that worked for about a month. Then death wobble was back. I just recently changed the bolts and what a difference. My jeep feels completely different. Thank god to this forum and to you knowledgeable folks. Don't ask just change your bolts. Chrysler sucks.
09-27-2014 05:40 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by myjeepandmydog View Post
I have a stock 2011 jku. Have suffered with death wobble for the last yr. Only 35000 miles. Dealer said replace steering stabilizer. Well that worked for about a month. Then death wobble was back. I just recently changed the bolts and what a difference. My jeep feels completely different. Thank god to this forum and to you knowledgeable folks. Don't ask just change your bolts. Chrysler sucks.


Did anybody see Northridges recent deal
Free bolt kit with lift purchase ?
09-27-2014 05:39 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
What bolt size fits 2012+ front frame-side track bar bracket? 14mm or 9/16"? Thanks .
I've see both used so I don't know.
09-27-2014 03:07 AM
m998dna What bolt size fits 2012+ front frame-side track bar bracket?

14mm or 9/16"?

Thanks

.
09-26-2014 11:13 PM
myjeepandmydog I have a stock 2011 jku. Have suffered with death wobble for the last yr. Only 35000 miles. Dealer said replace steering stabilizer. Well that worked for about a month. Then death wobble was back. I just recently changed the bolts and what a difference. My jeep feels completely different. Thank god to this forum and to you knowledgeable folks. Don't ask just change your bolts. Chrysler sucks.
09-26-2014 03:54 PM
Billett To each his own. You should still check on them when you service your vehicle.

And feel free to hop on the ole youtube and search death wobble. There are quite a few videos of stock JKs with the issue.
09-26-2014 03:43 PM
TampaDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Of course not.

The online community for Wranglers is great, but be careful not to lose your perspective. Chatting on forums tends to make folks believe they're speaking with the ENTIRE ownership base, which they're not.

An overview of the forum population would make you think every wrangler owner is out there is a shadetree mechanic who wheels all weekend. Yet a look around on your morning commute will show you otherwise. Nobody joins a forum to post about how they've made no modifications, had no problems, and don't do anything particularly "jeepy" with their jeep.

Excluding those who have modified their suspensions, what percentage of 2007-2015 Wranglers do you suppose have had their bolts changed out? What percentage of those stock 2007-2015 Wranglers do you suppose have experienced death wobble?

The numbers are very, very low. Very low.

If you keep your suspension unmodified, your odds of ever experiencing death wobble (i.e., the primary reason you'd do the bolt swap being discussed here) are extraordinarily small. Not zero mind you, but very, very small. The risk of death wobble is simply part of having a solid front axle (something only the Wrangler does anymore to maintain its offroad superiority), and Chrysler's choice of bolts here wasn't the best to guard against it.

But that's not really a problem. There are undoubtedly many tens of thousands of stock JKs out there with many tens of thousands of miles that have never experienced death wobble and have never changed their bolts. Chrysler may not have used the very best bolts, but all vehicles are full of compromises and the vast (vast, vast) majority of users in this situation have no problem.

That said, you can swap out the bolts if you like. If you do so properly, death wobble will be even less likely on a stock Wrangler. And certainly if you modify your suspension by installing a lift, this would be something you'd want to add to the process.
^ this

If "death wobble" were even a somewhat common issue with stock JKUs, there would be a huge uproar and a recall for sure, as it would pose a huge safety issue and open Chrysler up to massive liability.

I'll change my bolts if/when I do a lift. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it.
09-26-2014 02:32 PM
tabber02
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billett View Post
Does it really handle any better or does it just prevent death wobble?

And, at the risk of sounding like a giant d*** because of my last post, isn't "affect" the correct word to use there?
absolutely, "affect" was the right word. yes it can help in the prevention of death wobble. how - the shouldered bolts allow the bushings in the trackbar and in the control arms to "ride" on the shoulder, rather than on threads. with threads, the bushing is sitting on a little slop. not nearly as tight as it'd be on something with no threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaDude View Post
Why isn't there a TSB on this, then? Y'all are making it sound like a STOCK JKU could suddenly develop death wobble. That sounds like a serious safety issue. I can't believe Chrysler would open themselves up to liability like that.
no, i'm not saying a stock JKU or a JKU on 40s is going to break up in death wobble. no need to go off the deep end here. the stock bolts are fine, keep using them

if you want your bushings to last a little longer, go ahead and replace them with shouldered bolts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billett View Post
So don't change them.

EDIT: But I would seriously consider checking the torque on them along with your standard service/oil change.
folks should be doing that anyways. especially if you take your jeep offroad.
09-26-2014 02:24 PM
Billett So don't change them.

EDIT: But I would seriously consider checking the torque on them along with your standard service/oil change.
09-26-2014 02:06 PM
TampaDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabber02 View Post
yes, it would "affect" a stock JKU. regardless of lift, getting shouldered bolts in the trackbar and the lower control arms (mainly) will make a difference in the handling of the jeep.
Why isn't there a TSB on this, then? Y'all are making it sound like a STOCK JKU could suddenly develop death wobble. That sounds like a serious safety issue. I can't believe Chrysler would open themselves up to liability like that.
09-26-2014 02:02 PM
Billett Does it really handle any better or does it just prevent death wobble?

And, at the risk of sounding like a giant d*** because of my last post, isn't "affect" the correct word to use there?
09-26-2014 01:57 PM
tabber02
Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaDude View Post
Sooooo...will this affect a stock JKU, or only one that is lifted?
yes, it would "affect" a stock JKU. regardless of lift, getting shouldered bolts in the trackbar and the lower control arms (mainly) will make a difference in the handling of the jeep.
09-26-2014 01:45 PM
TampaDude Sooooo...will this affect a stock JKU, or only one that is lifted?
09-26-2014 01:21 PM
Billett
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
You can probably tell if they were changed without pulling them. If you've got grey/silver flanged bolt heads on your control arm brackets, then those are stock. The Northridge and Synergy bolts will be gold in color and not flanged, just regular hex head bolts.
Thanks for the info! Wasn't even thinking about that, but yeah that would definitely be the easiest way to check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
The Northridge kit is good to go. Grade 8 bolts are grade 8 bolts. It only replaces the TB and lower CA bolts but the upper CA bolts don't see the same stresses so they don't usually have the same issues.
True to a certain extent. As a materials engineer working for a major aerospace company I've seen some interesting things. Not saying this is the case with these bolts, but sometimes raw material comes from certain places or countries where the Quality standards are slightly more lax... Granted, the front suspension is a little less precise than what I usually work on haha. I'm not trying to start an argument over it, so if there has been good reviews here with the kit that's all I'm looking to hear! I appreciate the help!
09-26-2014 11:46 AM
flyfishnevada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billett View Post
Any forum discount for Northridge? I have a 2012 that I've noticed the steering wheel is just slightly starting to wobble on. 35k miles on it, could be nothing, but the PO installed a Teraflex BB and I'm assuming they didn't do the bolts while they were in there. I'll pull one or two out today just to make certain, but I figured I'd ask about the Northridge kit before I ordered. Definitely worth it if it's half the price of most others, but is the quality still there?
You can probably tell if they were changed without pulling them. If you've got grey/silver flanged bolt heads on your control arm brackets, then those are stock. The Northridge and Synergy bolts will be gold in color and not flanged, just regular hex head bolts.

The Northridge kit is good to go. Grade 8 bolts are grade 8 bolts. It only replaces the TB and lower CA bolts but the upper CA bolts don't see the same stresses so they don't usually have the same issues.
09-26-2014 09:01 AM
Billett Any forum discount for Northridge? I have a 2012 that I've noticed the steering wheel is just slightly starting to wobble on. 35k miles on it, could be nothing, but the PO installed a Teraflex BB and I'm assuming they didn't do the bolts while they were in there. I'll pull one or two out today just to make certain, but I figured I'd ask about the Northridge kit before I ordered. Definitely worth it if it's half the price of most others, but is the quality still there?
09-11-2014 03:38 PM
Show Killer Did most of this conversion yesterday. I got all the LCA bolts done and 1 of the rear track bar bolts done before i couldn't stand the heat any more. It got about 100* here in San Antonio yesterday. I am gonna finish the last 3 bolts tomorrow morning before it gets super hot again.

From what i could tell my stock bolts hadn't done much/any damage to date. Mine is an '09 JKUR with 63,400 on the clock.

Phil
09-11-2014 09:17 AM
All Terrain JK
Quote:
Originally Posted by El of Eye View Post
That's great! Thank you for all of the answers about the strength of the bolts. I was a little worried about how much torque they could handle because the bolts in the northridge kit are grade 8 and the factory bolts they replaced are a 10.9 grade.
Metric 10.9 is the rough equivalent to SAE grade 8.
09-11-2014 09:14 AM
El of Eye That's great! Thank you for all of the answers about the strength of the bolts. I was a little worried about how much torque they could handle because the bolts in the northridge kit are grade 8 and the factory bolts they replaced are a 10.9 grade.
09-10-2014 07:13 PM
flyfishnevada Grade 8 9/16-18 bolts can handle way more than 130. Maybe upwards of 200 ft-lbs.
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