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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-31-2011 02:36 PM
Barmanvarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbwwolf


Happy New Year, dawg!
Same to you! Be safe tonight.
12-31-2011 02:31 PM
kbwwolf

Happy New Year, dawg!
12-31-2011 02:29 PM
Barmanvarn If in the end I'm sitting at or slightly higher than now the ds angle should be in issue I don't think.

I may be adding more lift than I have now but I'll be compressing that down with bumpers and winch.

I'll keep you posted.
12-31-2011 02:20 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn View Post
Ok, I re-read thru the entire thread. Sorry KB, I guess it looked like I was asking questions that you had already answered but I completely missed one of your earlier posts.

Yes, I know about the 19/60s, but didn't know they also went by the moniker of Rubi springs. So at least I've got that cleared up.

I'm kinda leaning towards the 2.5 kit plan and, if after adding the bumpers it's sitting lower than I want, I can use some of the TF leveling kit I have to make slight tweeks in overall height and front-to-back height. In the end, I'd likely be at or slightly higher than I am now, which still keeps me out of the way of some of the issues we know about regarding taller lifts.

All good?
Exactly what I've been saying...

The ONLY issue is the shocks, if you decide to go that route. I KNOW you want them to be less than 27.5" to avoid ds/exhaust contact. However, if you decide to buy something like Bilstein 5100's (which are 27.5"), could you get around the issue entirely by using one of the TF exhaust spacers? I don't know the answer to that...I dismissed that as an option when I bought my FT lift, since I also bought a new ds at the same time.

Even with all that, there's still gonna be the issue of the angle of your ds, especially in the front. Probably should look into that.

But I think you're on the right track.
12-31-2011 02:14 PM
Barmanvarn Ok, I re-read thru the entire thread. Sorry KB, I guess it looked like I was asking questions that you had already answered but I completely missed one of your earlier posts.

Yes, I know about the 19/60s, but didn't know they also went by the moniker of Rubi springs. So at least I've got that cleared up.

I'm kinda leaning towards the 2.5 kit plan and, if after adding the bumpers it's sitting lower than I want, I can use some of the TF leveling kit I have to make slight tweeks in overall height and front-to-back height. In the end, I'd likely be at or slightly higher than I am now, which still keeps me out of the way of some of the issues we know about regarding taller lifts.

All good?
12-31-2011 02:06 PM
Barmanvarn @KB

I totally missed one of your earlier posts. I think you answered some questions that I just asked. Let me read thru all of this and I'll post back later.

Happy new year!
12-31-2011 02:00 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn View Post
Good info KB....looks like I was on the right track and not being a complete idiot.

My springs are 14/55 so I would definately notice a difference w/ the Rubi springs. Are those the 19/60s I've been reading about or is this something completely different?

Wow. I've been giving you advice based on the assumption you had a JKU. Just re-checked your profile...my bad. With springs that weak, you probably will get close to 2" out of some 19/60's (yeah, Rubi springs).

If I did go w/ the Rubi springs do we know for sure that I'll get about 2" out of them? Is this confirmed? Just wondering if I'd be better off gong w/ the TF or RK 2.5 kit so I'm assured I'll get what I'm looking for. Do we know the spring rates on the 2.5 kits? I tried looking around but didn't have any luck.

No idea what the spring rates for those kind've kits would be, but they'll be plenty stiff.

As for shocks, I definately want to upgrade them from stock while I'm at it. Whether I get a kit w/ or w/out shocks is yet to be decided.

That's the only part I'd be hesitant about. For example, I'd recommend against the Bilstein 5100's (without a new ds) for the '12, simply because shocks of that height will cause the ds/exhaust contact I described earlier, IMO. Though I THINK you'd be okay with the VSS9550's that come with the (version 3) TF 2.5" kit. Needs to be verified, though. Even if you avoid the ds/exhaust contact issues, however, your front ds gonna be at a pretty steep angle at the final lift height. And on a 2-dr, since it's a shorter wheelbase than the JKU, there are some concerns about the rear ds over time, as well. I haven't really looked into that a whole lot.

That said, there are a ton of folks with '12's who've gone with the 2.5" lifts, so maybe it's not an issue. Or maybe, in the next 1-2 years, we're gonna see a lot of threads about ds's losing their grease and seizing.

Hope not.


Also, I looked up RK and they don't appear to have a 2.5 leveling kit, just a 2.5 lift. Could I reuse my TF front spacers to remove the rake if I used the RK 2.5 lift? And I looked and TF and their 2.5 isn't just listed as a lift as well, but it looks like it includes the components to remove rake.

I think you should save your TF spacers regardless, at least until after you get your Jeep where you want it to be, height-wise. I don't know if they'd work w/the RK stuff or not, but don't see why they wouldn't. They're just spacers...

From what I saw on the TF site (I was only there abt 5 mins), they have 3 types of 2.5" lifts for Jeeps. The basic lift is a standard coil lift, but doesn't come with the adapters (or other shock mods) you'd need to run your stock shocks. The second version is the same as the first, but DOES come with the adapters. And the third version is the one with the replacement shocks I mentioned above.

Of course I'll end up calling both TF and RK and some point but I'm too lazy at the moment.
Laziness won't get your build done, chief.

Kidding. It IS New Year's Eve...
12-31-2011 01:41 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn
Good info KB....looks like I was on the right track and not being a complete idiot.

My springs are 14/55 so I would definately notice a difference w/ the Rubi springs. Are those the 19/60s I've been reading about or is this something completely different?

If I did go w/ the Rubi springs do we know for sure that I'll get about 2" out of them? Is this confirmed? Just wondering if I'd be better off gong w/ the TF or RK 2.5 kit so I'm assured I'll get what I'm looking for. Do we know the spring rates on the 2.5 kits? I tried looking around but didn't have any luck.

As for shocks, I definately want to upgrade them from stock while I'm at it. Whether I get a kit w/ or w/out shocks is yet to be decided.

Also, I looked up RK and they don't appear to have a 2.5 leveling kit, just a 2.5 lift. Could I reuse my TF front spacers to remove the rake if I used the RK 2.5 lift? And I looked and TF and their 2.5 isn't just listed as a lift as well, but it looks like it includes the components to remove rake.

Of course I'll end up calling both TF and RK and some point but I'm too lazy at the moment.
I though you knew about the springs? (19/60's)
12-31-2011 01:39 PM
Barmanvarn Good info KB....looks like I was on the right track and not being a complete idiot.

My springs are 14/55 so I would definately notice a difference w/ the Rubi springs. Are those the 19/60s I've been reading about or is this something completely different?

If I did go w/ the Rubi springs do we know for sure that I'll get about 2" out of them? Is this confirmed? Just wondering if I'd be better off gong w/ the TF or RK 2.5 kit so I'm assured I'll get what I'm looking for. Do we know the spring rates on the 2.5 kits? I tried looking around but didn't have any luck.

As for shocks, I definately want to upgrade them from stock while I'm at it. Whether I get a kit w/ or w/out shocks is yet to be decided.

Also, I looked up RK and they don't appear to have a 2.5 leveling kit, just a 2.5 lift. Could I reuse my TF front spacers to remove the rake if I used the RK 2.5 lift? And I looked and TF and their 2.5 isn't just listed as a lift as well, but it looks like it includes the components to remove rake.

Of course I'll end up calling both TF and RK and some point but I'm too lazy at the moment.
12-31-2011 01:03 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn View Post
I'm sure I'm not asking the questions correctly, so thanks for bearing with me.

The key pieces of the puzzle (for me) is 1) how to stay at or slightly higher than my current stance and 2) keeping the front at or slightly lower than the rear.

Let's say that I went w/ something like a 2.5" suspension lift. The front would be lower than the rear and adding a winch would drop it even further. So unless I'm missing something, on top of lifting the whole setup to compensate for bumper sag, I need to have something "extra" in the mix to lift up the front some. This is where I'm thinking the front spacers from the leveling kit could be repurposed. Whether I used 1 pair or 2 would depend on how much I needed to raise up the front to level it out.

The one thing I want to avoid for now is getting into that lift range where alot of the other components have to be altered.
Okay. I see where you're coming from now. I think if you stay at or below a 2.5" lift (forget front/rear ratios, for now...your spacers can take care of that later, if necessary) you'll be fine.

I would simply recommend a 2.5" leveling kit with shocks, except I'm not certain of what the shock lengths are for most of those lifts. It's not that big a problem with earlier year-models, but the with '12's it can be.

As I said when I did my lift install, on the '12's a set of 27.5" (or greater) shocks will cause the stock ds to hit the exhaust pipe...IF you disco the front swaybars. It's not a question...I stood right there w/my Jeep on a lift, lift kit installed, and with the swaybar still connected there was less than 1/4" of clearance between the ds and the exhaust.

With that said, here are your options as I see em:

Go with the Rubi springs for now. I think NEW ones from Mopar are $160. However, you need fairly weak springs – 14/55's or so – to realize the higher-end benefit of a 2" lift. What are your current spring rates?

Get a 2.5" lift from TF or RK. Took a quick look at the TF stuff...they make a 2.5" coil lift (you want the one with adapters to use with your Jeep's stock shocks); and a 2.5" coil lift with shocks...the shocks they use are their own VSS9550 shocks. As best as I could determine, those are 27" long, so they SHOULD work with your stock ds (though I'd check with some of the forum vendors, as well as TF themselves, to be certain). Keep in mind, however, that most TF lifts run a little high, so you may end up with closer to 3" initially...though bumper/winch should knock that down some.

Aren't you glad you got a '12?
12-31-2011 12:32 PM
Barmanvarn Good to go? Yes and no.

Yes, I could had new bumpers now with no problem, but the issue I have w/ that is that the weight will sag me back down close to where I was prior to adding the leveling kit. I added the kit not to compensate for bumper weight, but to give me more clearance with the tires. Simply adding bumpers now, while doable, would negate all of the work I've put into gaining extra tire clearance.

I want to add more lift so that when I do add the new bumpers, I don't lose all of the clearance I've created. I know that to do this the leveling kit will likely be replace by something else and I'm cool with that. That's what Ebay is for.
12-31-2011 12:09 PM
kjeeper10 Wait-your higher in the front now?

The you should be good to go, right?

I think for the most part-depends on the coils. Softer stockers will sag more than a good lift kits coils. Or 19's if you have those.

Edit--on the same track as KW--I think
12-31-2011 12:06 PM
kbwwolf Sorry. Had to eat...

Lemme see if I got this straight:

You currently have a 1.5" TF leveling kit. Not a question...

You PLAN on buying some 19/60 Rubi springs? If so, what are your current spring rates? If they're something fairly weak, like 14's / 54's, you may indeed see a 2" gain from the Rubis. If they're 16's / 57's you might only end up with about an inch or so, in which case the added bumper weight would almost completely negate them (working within the parameters of your 1" loss theory.)

So...if your current springs suck, it's to your benefit. If you put 19's on the front and get the 2", plus use the 1.5" TF spacers, you'll end up with 2.5" after adding a bumper and winch. On the rear, remove the spacers and put in the 60 springs, you'll end up with 1" of lift. Meaning the front would be higher than the rear (unless you added the spacer back to the rear, and even then there would be a 1/2" diff).

All of which is dependent on not adding weighty items down the road...such as skid plates or other armor, etc.

Is that the plan?
12-31-2011 12:00 PM
Barmanvarn I'm sure I'm not asking the questions correctly, so thanks for bearing with me.

The key pieces of the puzzle (for me) is 1) how to stay at or slightly higher than my current stance and 2) keeping the front at or slightly lower than the rear.

Let's say that I went w/ something like a 2.5" suspension lift. The front would be lower than the rear and adding a winch would drop it even further. So unless I'm missing something, on top of lifting the whole setup to compensate for bumper sag, I need to have something "extra" in the mix to lift up the front some. This is where I'm thinking the front spacers from the leveling kit could be repurposed. Whether I used 1 pair or 2 would depend on how much I needed to raise up the front to level it out.

The one thing I want to avoid for now is getting into that lift range where alot of the other components have to be altered.
12-31-2011 11:51 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn

I'm tracking what you guys are saying. I just didn't want drawn into a discussion of how much exactly the new bumpers would drop me. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that the new bumpers will drop me 1" and I want to stay where I'm at now.
Understood.
12-31-2011 11:44 AM
Barmanvarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
The 2" (or so) you would achieve from 19/60's is still "stock"
2" up from what they started with.

What I'm trying to say. I'm sure someone going with a 2" lift would sit higher then the stiffer coils.

Could be way off (as usual)

Agree with KW. I think the only way you be able to tell is after you add the extra weight. I think there are other variables to consider.
I'm tracking what you guys are saying. I just didn't want drawn into a discussion of how much exactly the new bumpers would drop me. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that the new bumpers will drop me 1" and I want to stay where I'm at now.
12-31-2011 11:39 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn
No, I'd be where I am now.

Let's look at the rear:
From stock, it's +1 thanks to the leveling kit.
Now, let's take the kit out and the rear is back to +0.
Now add in the 60 spring, and the rear is up to +2.
Add a rear bumper and the rear is back to +1 (roughly).

This logic seems solid to me.

EDIT: Maybe I can make it simpler. What if I just added the 19/60 to what I already have. I'd likely be a little taller than I am now, but not so much that I'd be into the 3"+ range that requires other mechanical alterations.
The 2" (or so) you would achieve from 19/60's is still "stock"
2" up from what they started with.

What I'm trying to say. I'm sure someone going with a 2" lift would sit higher then the stiffer coils.

Could be way off (as usual)

Agree with KW. I think the only way you be able to tell is after you add the extra weight. I think there are other variables to consider.
12-31-2011 11:28 AM
Barmanvarn No, I'd be where I am now.

Let's look at the rear:
From stock, it's +1 thanks to the leveling kit.
Now, let's take the kit out and the rear is back to +0.
Now add in the 60 spring, and the rear is up to +2.
Add a rear bumper and the rear is back to +1 (roughly).

This logic seems solid to me.

EDIT: Maybe I can make it simpler. What if I just added the 19/60 to what I already have. I'd likely be a little taller than I am now, but not so much that I'd be into the 3"+ range that requires other mechanical alterations.
12-31-2011 11:19 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn

I went out and measured and indeed the front is around 3/4 higher than the rear now. So you appear to be correct.

But note in my "plan" where the only piece from the leveling kit that I would be reusing would be a single set of spacers in the front (as opposed to the 4 total I have now). The spacers in the rear would be removed.
So after the bumper/winch you will be riding close to stock?
12-31-2011 11:08 AM
Barmanvarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Don't know if this is correct but. I thought
that some go with a leveling kit to bring up the front. So when you do add a bumper/which- it will even out a bit but still
give you some clearance.
I guess you could look into some good springs for the front only?
I went out and measured and indeed the front is around 3/4 higher than the rear now. So you appear to be correct.

But note in my "plan" where the only piece from the leveling kit that I would be reusing would be a single set of spacers in the front (as opposed to the 4 total I have now). The spacers in the rear would be removed.
12-31-2011 11:04 AM
Barmanvarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbwwolf View Post
It's a tidy theory...however, it's all gonna depend on your bumper selection. If you try to select a bumper based on where you want your ride height to end up, you're gonna be seriously limited.

Better to choose the bumpers, and deal with the ride height afterwards, IMO.
That's why I said let's just assume that the bumpers will drop me 1" (for easy math) as I don't see it being that much as i know I won't be buying some 1-ton monstrosity. If it ends up dropping me less and I end up w/ my rig being slightly higher than it is now, that's not a problem.
12-31-2011 11:01 AM
kbwwolf It's a tidy theory...however, it's all gonna depend on your bumper selection. If you try to select a bumper based on where you want your ride height to end up, you're gonna be seriously limited.

Better to choose the bumpers, and deal with the ride height afterwards, IMO.
12-31-2011 11:00 AM
kjeeper10 Don't know if this is correct but. I thought
that some go with a leveling kit to bring up the front. So when you do add a bumper/which- it will even out a bit but still
give you some clearance.
I guess you could look into some good springs for the front only?
12-31-2011 10:43 AM
Barmanvarn
The planning for new bumpers begins

Some of you know that I like to do my research and plan ahead whenever working out my next mod. In this case, I'm planning out the addition of new bumpers.

At this time, I don't know what model I'll get so let's not worry about that piece at this time. Before I get the bumpers I want to plan out what else I'll need to do to keep stance I have now.

My current setup is 33s w/ a 1.5 Teraflex leveling kit. I really like the stance I have now and would like that to remain unchanged w/ the additional weight of the new bumpers (and a winch as well).

I've looked through some other threads on this topic and I'm seeing that I can expect to drop about 3/4" with the additional weight (give or take a little, depending on weight).

So let's just say, for the sake of this discussion, that I'll lose 1" with the new bumpers installed. What can I do do compensate for this?

I sort of have an idea, let me know where I'm incorrect......

Let's say my front is currently +2 (inches) over stock and the rear is +1. This is where I want to be when all is said and done.

The talk I've seen seems to agress that the 19/60 springs (w/out the leveling kit) would make my Jeep +2 front and +2 rear.

For easy math, let's say the new bumpers drop me 1". So w/ the 19/60 and bumpers, I'd be at +1 front and +1 rear.

Adding a single spacer to the front from the leveling kit would get me back to +2 front and +1 rear. This gets me back to where I am now.

Also planning to upgrade the shocks while I'm at it.

This seems too simple to me so I'm obviously completely wrong in my assumption that this is a good plan.

Please point out my errors. thanks

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