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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-15-2015 12:59 PM
mbehr55
Fix for 2wd JK 4dr

Had the DW for the 1st time with my '09 2wd 4dr JK last month. Found the stabilizer leaking oil and knew I had to replace it. Same thing happened seven years ago with my '07 but that one was under warranty. No warranty this time since the '09 has 84500 miles.

Read this thread and checked everything as advised. No issues except the stabilizer leaking oil. Replaced it with a Rancho Suspension RS5407. Noticed some slack in the mounting bolt sleeve for the axle mount but went ahead and finished the install.

Guess what? It lasted about 3 weeks and I had another episode of DW. This time I took it to a good brake and alignment shop that has been around for many years. They knew exactly what I was talking about. They checked out the entire front end and found nothing loose or worn. They suggested I try a dual stabilizer, but I decided not to do that.

I ordered an ORV Rugged Ridge stabilizer, pn 18040.05 from Amazon. When I took the Rancho stabilizer off I looked at the axle mounting bolt and saw that it was threaded all the way and had a small amount of slack in the bracket mounting holes. Went to Lowe's and bought a Grade 8 1/2" bolt 2 1/2" long with washers and a lock nut. The new bolt took the slack out of the axle mount and there was none at the drag link mount.

After I completed the install, I noticed the Rancho stabilizer had leaked some oil from the shaft seal. Made a "painless" return to Advance Auto Parts for a refund.

I highly recommend the bolt replacement as outlined above as I think it is definitely part of the problem. I'm optimistic that this will fix the problem but will certainly post a new reply to this thread if it does not.
01-14-2015 01:17 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post
I just spoke with Taylor over there and he said 90% of the time their drag link won't fit with stock or stock backspacing wheels in the OE or flipped position. That being said the 4.5 or 4.25 backspacing requirement on their site is a bit overstated for a safety margin and wheel manufacturer differences. A Wheel Spacer will of course effectively lessen back spacing and give you the clearance you'd need to run this in the OE or flipped position with stock or stock backspacing wheels. Let me know if that isn't clear or if anyone has any other questions! -Ryan
Detective Ryan
01-14-2015 12:14 PM
XTRyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I believe 4.5 is called out but running it flipped.
I would call Synergy to confirm.
I just spoke with Taylor over there and he said 90% of the time their drag link won't fit with stock or stock backspacing wheels in the OE or flipped position. That being said the 4.5 or 4.25 backspacing requirement on their site is a bit overstated for a safety margin and wheel manufacturer differences.

A Wheel Spacer will of course effectively lessen back spacing and give you the clearance you'd need to run this in the OE or flipped position with stock or stock backspacing wheels.

Let me know if that isn't clear or if anyone has any other questions!

-Ryan
01-14-2015 11:26 AM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post
I checked through the Install Instruction to see if they mention back spacing on either the OE or flipped position. I haven't personally installed one of those drag links, but from the instructions I have it looks like it should work just fine with factory wheels in the factory position. If anyone has first hand experience to the contrary I'll have the site adjusted to reflect that, just let me know! -Ryan
I believe 4.5 is called out but running it flipped.
I would call Synergy to confirm.
01-14-2015 10:21 AM
XTRyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildboy View Post
So...the Synergy DL can be used as a stock replacement/stock position with stock wheels and no additional parts? I have seen some installation specs that talk about backspace issues but not entirely sure what that means other than it sounds like it is too long to work without increasing backspace of wheels. Can anyone confirm?
I checked through the Install Instruction to see if they mention back spacing on either the OE or flipped position. I haven't personally installed one of those drag links, but from the instructions I have it looks like it should work just fine with factory wheels in the factory position.

If anyone has first hand experience to the contrary I'll have the site adjusted to reflect that, just let me know!

-Ryan
01-14-2015 09:25 AM
wildboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
The Synergy drag link can be run in the stock position or flipped over the Knuckle (high steer) You're good with the synergy drag link.

Here's a pic of a high steer kit Both the drag link and track bar are raised up 3"
This is something you do lifted 3+ inches to correct geometry and reduce bumpsteer.
So...the Synergy DL can be used as a stock replacement/stock position with stock wheels and no additional parts? I have seen some installation specs that talk about backspace issues but not entirely sure what that means other than it sounds like it is too long to work without increasing backspace of wheels. Can anyone confirm?
01-13-2015 09:39 AM
XTRyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
I have the Currie drag link on my 2 dr JK and ran it in the stock position, and later, flipped.

It is nice, but not worth the extra cost over the Synergy.
Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback!

-Ryan
01-12-2015 08:39 PM
planman
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post
Synergy does make some nice stuff! The Crown kit Kjeeper recommended and that we talked about in PM looks like it work really well for you. Let me know if you have any other questions about it. On a side note, does anyone run the Currectlync set up on their JK? That was always the go-to for TJ and I run it on mine. It's a really stout set-up, although you pay for the strength. I was just curious why it's not run on more JKs. -Ryan
I have the Currie drag link on my 2 dr JK and ran it in the stock position, and later, flipped.

It is nice, but not worth the extra cost over the Synergy.
01-12-2015 02:32 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildboy View Post
Thanks for the help you two. The drag link was a concern especially with it being listed as "high steer." No idea what that means. I will follow both of your links along with keeping in mind the Synergy DL will not work. Seems like most people are high on synergy and recommend that brand when possible so I thought I would go with it. The main desire is to go with quality parts at a reasonable price that will not need to be replaced a year down the road.
The Synergy drag link can be run in the stock position or flipped over the Knuckle (high steer) You're good with the synergy drag link.

Here's a pic of a high steer kit Both the drag link and track bar are raised up 3"
This is something you do lifted 3+ inches to correct geometry and reduce bumpsteer.
01-12-2015 02:13 PM
XTRyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildboy View Post
Thanks for the help you two. The drag link was a concern especially with it being listed as "high steer." No idea what that means. I will follow both of your links along with keeping in mind the Synergy DL will not work. Seems like most people are high on synergy and recommend that brand when possible so I thought I would go with it. The main desire is to go with quality parts at a reasonable price that will not need to be replaced a year down the road.
Synergy does make some nice stuff! The Crown kit Kjeeper recommended and that we talked about in PM looks like it work really well for you. Let me know if you have any other questions about it.

On a side note, does anyone run the Currectlync set up on their JK? That was always the go-to for TJ and I run it on mine. It's a really stout set-up, although you pay for the strength. I was just curious why it's not run on more JKs.

-Ryan
01-12-2015 12:06 PM
wildboy Thanks for the help you two. The drag link was a concern especially with it being listed as "high steer." No idea what that means. I will follow both of your links along with keeping in mind the Synergy DL will not work. Seems like most people are high on synergy and recommend that brand when possible so I thought I would go with it. The main desire is to go with quality parts at a reasonable price that will not need to be replaced a year down the road.
01-11-2015 11:45 AM
planman Good catch.
01-10-2015 05:55 PM
kjeeper10 The Synergy tie rod will not work with factory backspaced wheels. 4.5 is required using new wheels or spacers.

More times than not the factory drag link ends wears out first. I think he'll be fine with a stock Crown tie rod ($125), synergy drag link and ball joints,
http://www.extremeterrain.com/crown-...m=&XTID=J19549
01-10-2015 05:46 PM
planman The Synergy drag link, tie rod, and ball joints will work perfectly for your daughter's stock height jeep.

You can get them with free shipping from Northridge4x4.com, and maybe with an additional discount if you call in your order.
01-10-2015 02:50 PM
wildboy Thanks for the great information. Trying to remedy this on my daughters 2007 Wrangler X. The jeep is a 2-wheel drive with 72,000 miles and is bone stock except for factory 17" wheels with Goodyear wrangler 255/75R17 tires that were put on by the previous owner. I'm not looking to trick this thing out though upgraded parts over factory replacement are the logical way to go. Two episodes of DW and it is now parked. Went through your videos and checklist to find that the ball joints, draglink, and tie rod need work/replacement. The track-bar looks to have been replaced in July and bolts look good. Steering dampner is a Rancho and looks good.

Here is the plan:
Drag-link. Synergy #syn8001 Will it bolt right up like stock?
Tie-rod: Looking for an "all inclusive" replacement to bolt right up. Any suggestions?
Ball Joints: Synergy #8009-12. Looks like the right ones?

Any suggestions will be appreciated as long as we understand I'm staying stock just looking for better than stock parts that don't blow the budget.
12-26-2014 09:13 AM
FingerTight
Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
At idle? At speed? At a certain rpm? Do you feel it in the steering? Is it all the time? Is it easy to replicate? How violent is the vibration?
Yes, more info needed! Might want to start your own thread. I noticed on my 2014 I can really feel the vacuum pump when it kicks on
12-25-2014 09:34 PM
planman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny321 View Post
My engine is vibrating and making my whole jeep vibrate what could cause that any info would be nice 2014 jk rubicon 2 door no lift everything stock
At idle? At speed? At a certain rpm? Do you feel it in the steering? Is it all the time? Is it easy to replicate?

How violent is the vibration?
12-25-2014 04:39 PM
Kenny321 My engine is vibrating and making my whole jeep vibrate what could cause that any info would be nice 2014 jk rubicon 2 door no lift everything stock
12-12-2014 06:42 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonathan View Post
I have a 1990 Jeep YJ Wrangler. A rather large tree fell on the hood and damage is quite extensive. I have repaired most of the damage. My question is the drivers side front tire is considerably cantered in at the top. What would usually bend to cause this condition. I have jacked it up and spin the tire and there is no wobble. runs straight. any ideas would be appreciated Thank you
Axle. have it aligned. If the axle tube is bent, both tires should show negative camber.
12-12-2014 05:48 PM
jdonathan I have a 1990 Jeep YJ Wrangler. A rather large tree fell on the hood and damage is quite extensive. I have repaired most of the damage. My question is the drivers side front tire is considerably cantered in at the top. What would usually bend to cause this condition.
I have jacked it up and spin the tire and there is no wobble. runs straight.
any ideas would be appreciated
Thank you
11-01-2014 10:46 PM
kjeeper10 People with multiple DW episodes can develop steering box issues. You mentioned flex or play in the sector shaft. I would bring focus to the steering box.
11-01-2014 08:38 PM
Kiddmen57 All the rubber bushings look new too....
11-01-2014 08:35 PM
Kiddmen57 Pretty much. DW'd then to tire shop for balance and rotate. Home and went through the checklist. Found slight play in drag link ends and upper driver ballpoint had visible vertical movement. All other TREs were solid and all bolts checked out good.

Haven't done alignment yet for reasons stated earlier.

A couple DW episodes later including one after installing a new drag link and going through the checklist note the tie rod ends are now seemingly loose. Track bar still torqued and re-checked holes- no sign whatsoever of ovaling.

I know the dampener is toast but is just a bandaid. Sector shaft appears to have some flex in it, hard to tell by eye. There is a clunk though from it when going back and forth. Thus new tie rod, Ball joints, and adding a sector shaft brace and compatible track bar.

Once I'm done with those items I'll get an alignment and have the tires balanced again just for good measure.
11-01-2014 06:42 PM
planman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddmen57 View Post
So I am just now experiencing the horrors of DW. I have just under 20K on my 2013 JKUR and 15k since I did my AEV 3.5 lift. I followed all the proper setup procedures (torquing under load etc) and the jeep has been a dream to drive since. That is until this week when I hit a construction plate in the road and went into full on DW, first time it ever happened. Had to stop in the road and continue. Happened twice more before I got home. Found this article and checked the front end out. A bit of history...I grease the chassis/ driveline components, rotate tires, check major component torques, and change oil every 3K miles. As I went through the front end I noted that the drag link TREs were looking a bit worn and the upper driver balljoint has a bit of vertical play (visually able to see it). So I ordered a new drag link. This did not solve the issue and I had a DW episode on my test drive (same initial DW construction plate). So I went over everything again, my TB holes are not ovaled, the bolt hasn't moved since originally installed (yes i used 9/16 upgrades on the TB). Now my mind is going crazy. The TREs on the tie rod seem worn out now, I still have a clunk in the drag link (brand new Synergy) which I think might be the sector shaft and still don't have a definitive solution. Again, my track bar has been 100% fine every time i've checked it. Now, I did not yet check alignment, tires were balanced immediately after the first DW day and rotated as well. So now my plan is new ball joints, new synergy tie rod, track bar, track bar and sector arm brace, fox ATS stabilizer (my OME blew with the first DW episode) and after all that an alignment and another tire balancing. I Just have this sickness in my gut that makes me think it'll still be there after all this and $1600 in new parts and alignment. 2013 JKUR with AEV 3.5 SC (with geo correcting brackets) and BFG AT 315/70's on stock wheels with 1.5 spidertrax spacers (also torque checked every tire rotation - never one loose). Im just really hoping that replacing/ upgrading all the steering components and such will fix this as I never did find one smoking gun, but a couple minor possibly worn parts.
Did you perform the comprehensive inspection checklist in post number two of this thread, all in one sitting?
11-01-2014 06:20 PM
Kiddmen57 So I am just now experiencing the horrors of DW. I have just under 20K on my 2013 JKUR and 15k since I did my AEV 3.5 lift. I followed all the proper setup procedures (torquing under load etc) and the jeep has been a dream to drive since. That is until this week when I hit a construction plate in the road and went into full on DW, first time it ever happened. Had to stop in the road and continue. Happened twice more before I got home. Found this article and checked the front end out.

A bit of history...I grease the chassis/ driveline components, rotate tires, check major component torques, and change oil every 3K miles. As I went through the front end I noted that the drag link TREs were looking a bit worn and the upper driver balljoint has a bit of vertical play (visually able to see it). So I ordered a new drag link. This did not solve the issue and I had a DW episode on my test drive (same initial DW construction plate). So I went over everything again, my TB holes are not ovaled, the bolt hasn't moved since originally installed (yes i used 9/16 upgrades on the TB). Now my mind is going crazy. The TREs on the tie rod seem worn out now, I still have a clunk in the drag link (brand new Synergy) which I think might be the sector shaft and still don't have a definitive solution. Again, my track bar has been 100% fine every time i've checked it.

Now, I did not yet check alignment, tires were balanced immediately after the first DW day and rotated as well. So now my plan is new ball joints, new synergy tie rod, track bar, track bar and sector arm brace, fox ATS stabilizer (my OME blew with the first DW episode) and after all that an alignment and another tire balancing.

I Just have this sickness in my gut that makes me think it'll still be there after all this and $1600 in new parts and alignment.

2013 JKUR with AEV 3.5 SC (with geo correcting brackets) and BFG AT 315/70's on stock wheels with 1.5 spidertrax spacers (also torque checked every tire rotation - never one loose).

Im just really hoping that replacing/ upgrading all the steering components and such will fix this as I never did find one smoking gun, but a couple minor possibly worn parts.
09-04-2014 02:49 PM
ASE_MasterTech A mechanics take on "Death Wobble"

The kingpin axis inherent in every coil spring steerable solid live axle that I'm aware of, due to the nature of the available geometry, lends itself to a tire scrub radius prone to perpetuating wheel oscillation - resulting in 'Death Wobble'.

For lack of a simpler description;
Think of 'Scrub Radius' on a steerable solid axle as the usually calm pair of 800lb gorillas in the room..
Add in loose steering/suspension parts-higher lift/increased angles-larger tires-more rim offset-etc, etc.. now hitting a bump is like poking one of the gorillas, one gets upset-then both get upset-start fighting each other..
I think most can imagine the results of that scenario...

In other words, I don't believe any one of the above are a specific 'reason for' but more so a 'result of', the "geometrically dynamic" limitations inherent to these type suspension/steering systems.

You can't redesign the laws of physics so you'll have to take some bad with the good.
If you want a 'simple to lift-high articulation-solid live axle' like coil spring types, you're gonna have to deal with a negative aspect or two..
However, by keeping steering & suspension components tight, most shouldn't have any issues...
09-03-2014 08:08 PM
kjeeper10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wkdstx View Post
Just installed a RoughCountry 3.5" lift on my 2014 4 door JK. Followed everything in instructions to a tee (I thought). Took it for a test drive, "wa la" Death Wobble. And I mean bad. Slowly drove home and began dissecting components like Planman's write up. Loose bolt on the track bar mount at the axle. Bolt wasn't long enough to properly engage the lock nut and came Louise. Went to the hardware store and got longer Grade-8 and "bam" .......DW gone. I tried to hit small dips and pot holes to ensure my find was correct and I'm glad to report no issues. Going to alignment shop in the am. Thank you very much Planman, for a excellent write up.


Did you go through everything 100%
DW can cause a lot of damage. Worn track bar holes, ball joints, tre's, steering box/sector shaft.
Don't want it to sneak back up on you.
09-03-2014 07:07 PM
eh384 Just dropped mine off at the shop to fix my wobbles. I have a 2010 Unlimited, 4 inch lift, 37 inch Nittos. My guess is its the ball joints...
09-03-2014 06:39 PM
Wkdstx Just installed a RoughCountry 3.5" lift on my 2014 4 door JK. Followed everything in instructions to a tee (I thought). Took it for a test drive, "wa la" Death Wobble. And I mean bad. Slowly drove home and began dissecting components like Planman's write up. Loose bolt on the track bar mount at the axle. Bolt wasn't long enough to properly engage the lock nut and came Louise. Went to the hardware store and got longer Grade-8 and "bam" .......DW gone. I tried to hit small dips and pot holes to ensure my find was correct and I'm glad to report no issues. Going to alignment shop in the am. Thank you very much Planman, for a excellent write up.
09-03-2014 12:58 AM
i82much Not gonna read all this but I got very clear, repeatable DW on a 2013 with 19k miles, no lift, and 32s. Tightening the track bar bolts fixed it.

Seems clear to me Planman is on to something.
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