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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-24-2014 07:48 AM
SilverSahara
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
IMHO, this is just a good excuse to put a lift on. I mean if you're taking all the bolts out anyway, might as well toss some taller springs in there, right?
That's when I did mine
07-23-2014 08:41 PM
jg13jkur
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
If you got the Northridge 4x4 kit or the Synergy lower kit, you'll do the front and rear track bars and front and rear lower control arms. The uppers, from what I understand, don't see the stresses the lowers do. You can do the uppers, Synergy sells a kit that will do all of them, but you don't have too.

And you don't have to do the lowers either. I did it because I want my Jeep to last and I do wheel it fairly often. I already saw scoring on my bushings at 1800 miles but it was very slight. I bet lots of Jeeps are running around with scored bushings and have zero problems. It's cheap insurance and usually nothing more.

Like MTH said, we are a special group. We aren't typical. Just like you get the impression you need to drop $5000 on a new Jeep to make it off road worthy by reading this forum, you also get the impression every other Jeep is a lemon. No one runs here to brag about their bone stock sport they use to drive to grandma's house and take the kids to soccer and no one runs here to tell us their Jeep is running perfectly and their getting decent mileage. We get to hear all the problems.

IMHO, this is just a good excuse to put a lift on. I mean if you're taking all the bolts out anyway, might as well toss some taller springs in there, right?
I wholeheartedly agree! I don't feel like having my brand new RK control arms screwed up because of fully threaded bolts! (See what I did there?! Lol!)
07-23-2014 08:37 PM
H3br3whamm3r81 Not a problem!
07-23-2014 08:36 PM
jg13jkur
Quote:
Originally Posted by H3br3whamm3r81 View Post
Yeah, I guess it really does pay to read the freaking instructions. Lol! I didn't see that on their site.
Thanks!!
07-23-2014 01:59 PM
H3br3whamm3r81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jg13jkur View Post
I got the Northridge kit.
See this:
http://northridge4x4.com/store/media...8_Bolt_Kit.pdf
07-23-2014 12:55 PM
jg13jkur
Quote:
Originally Posted by H3br3whamm3r81 View Post
Not sure what kit you got. Who did you buy it from, and what's the part number?

I got this kit (Synergy) and it's top and bottom, front and rear. In other words, all the suspension bolts.
I got the Northridge kit.
07-23-2014 12:25 PM
H3br3whamm3r81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jg13jkur View Post
Silly question, but in two weeks I'll be installing a lift. I went ahead and got the bolt kit. It came with 8 bolts (control arms), plus two more (track bar). Is the bolt kit for the front only? What about the bolts in the rear, are those fully threaded, no collar, too?
Not sure what kit you got. Who did you buy it from, and what's the part number?

I got this kit (Synergy) and it's top and bottom, front and rear. In other words, all the suspension bolts.
07-23-2014 12:00 PM
flyfishnevada
Quote:
Originally Posted by jg13jkur View Post
Silly question, but in two weeks I'll be installing a lift. I went ahead and got the bolt kit. It came with 8 bolts (control arms), plus two more (track bar). Is the bolt kit for the front only? What about the bolts in the rear, are those fully threaded, no collar, too?
If you got the Northridge 4x4 kit or the Synergy lower kit, you'll do the front and rear track bars and front and rear lower control arms. The uppers, from what I understand, don't see the stresses the lowers do. You can do the uppers, Synergy sells a kit that will do all of them, but you don't have too.

And you don't have to do the lowers either. I did it because I want my Jeep to last and I do wheel it fairly often. I already saw scoring on my bushings at 1800 miles but it was very slight. I bet lots of Jeeps are running around with scored bushings and have zero problems. It's cheap insurance and usually nothing more.

Like MTH said, we are a special group. We aren't typical. Just like you get the impression you need to drop $5000 on a new Jeep to make it off road worthy by reading this forum, you also get the impression every other Jeep is a lemon. No one runs here to brag about their bone stock sport they use to drive to grandma's house and take the kids to soccer and no one runs here to tell us their Jeep is running perfectly and their getting decent mileage. We get to hear all the problems.

IMHO, this is just a good excuse to put a lift on. I mean if you're taking all the bolts out anyway, might as well toss some taller springs in there, right?
07-23-2014 09:13 AM
Barmanvarn Well said bud.
07-23-2014 09:11 AM
CrossOps Thanks brother.
07-23-2014 09:07 AM
MTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossOps View Post
Ok, I will go ahead and state that I am very new to jeeps. But to clarify... are you saying my brand new 2015 Wrangler is going to need to do this? Brand new?
Of course not.

The online community for Wranglers is great, but be careful not to lose your perspective. Chatting on forums tends to make folks believe they're speaking with the ENTIRE ownership base, which they're not.

An overview of the forum population would make you think every wrangler owner is out there is a shadetree mechanic who wheels all weekend. Yet a look around on your morning commute will show you otherwise. Nobody joins a forum to post about how they've made no modifications, had no problems, and don't do anything particularly "jeepy" with their jeep.

Excluding those who have modified their suspensions, what percentage of 2007-2015 Wranglers do you suppose have had their bolts changed out? What percentage of those stock 2007-2015 Wranglers do you suppose have experienced death wobble?

The numbers are very, very low. Very low.

If you keep your suspension unmodified, your odds of ever experiencing death wobble (i.e., the primary reason you'd do the bolt swap being discussed here) are extraordinarily small. Not zero mind you, but very, very small. The risk of death wobble is simply part of having a solid front axle (something only the Wrangler does anymore to maintain its offroad superiority), and Chrysler's choice of bolts here wasn't the best to guard against it.

But that's not really a problem. There are undoubtedly many tens of thousands of stock JKs out there with many tens of thousands of miles that have never experienced death wobble and have never changed their bolts. Chrysler may not have used the very best bolts, but all vehicles are full of compromises and the vast (vast, vast) majority of users in this situation have no problem.

That said, you can swap out the bolts if you like. If you do so properly, death wobble will be even less likely on a stock Wrangler. And certainly if you modify your suspension by installing a lift, this would be something you'd want to add to the process.
07-23-2014 08:43 AM
membrain
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossOps View Post
$32k brand new for a 2015, and this? I am a little taken back at the moment.
Your fenders are made outta plastic and your roof outta fiberglass...

If you stay stock, there shouldn't be anything to worry about as everything is torqued to spec at the factory.

If you start fiddling with things, then expect to fix it... or not.
07-23-2014 07:58 AM
jg13jkur Silly question, but in two weeks I'll be installing a lift. I went ahead and got the bolt kit. It came with 8 bolts (control arms), plus two more (track bar). Is the bolt kit for the front only? What about the bolts in the rear, are those fully threaded, no collar, too?
07-22-2014 11:13 PM
H3br3whamm3r81 If you want to make lemonade from lemons, just think of it as getting acquainted with your Jeep's suspension. Better yet, upgrade your suspension (i.e., install a lift) when you do it, so you knock out two birds with one stone.
07-22-2014 11:09 PM
Fr8dawg The vast majority of lightly driven, street only, non modified Wranglers on stock wheels and tires will probably be fine with the threaded bolts... But why risk it? Dealing with death wobble at 30-40,000 miles where the average dealership mechanic will just start replacing things (other than the problematic bolts lol)... Or do it yourself off the bat and prevent future headaches.
07-22-2014 11:05 PM
CrossOps $32k brand new for a 2015, and this? I am a little taken back at the moment.
07-22-2014 10:59 PM
Fr8dawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossOps View Post
Ok, I will go ahead and state that I am very new to jeeps. But to clarify... are you saying my brand new 2015 Wrangler is going to need to do this? Brand new?
Thats what Im sayin! Its amazing such a huge design flaw like this was never corrected at the factory... Oh well, bolts are relatively cheap and will be going on someday (whenever rock krawler suspension sends my dang coils lol)
07-22-2014 10:58 PM
H3br3whamm3r81 There's no way to know. Easy test is, pick a suspension bolt. Remove it. If the bolt is fully threaded up to the head, then in all likelihood all the other suspension bolts on control arms and track bar are also fully threaded.

I really, really doubt the Jeep engineers will change the bolt design for the remainder of the JK's production. One, it will add more expense. Two, it will almost give the owners of the previous years a reason to go to the dealer and demand the dealer replace the "defective" fully threaded bolts. After all, if there isn't a problem with fully threaded bolts, why would (hypothetically) Jeep all of a sudden change the design?
07-22-2014 10:56 PM
jason75087
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossOps View Post
Ok, I will go ahead and state that I am very new to jeeps. But to clarify... are you saying my brand new 2015 Wrangler is going to need to do this? Brand new?
Yep! Unless they change from 14mm, no collar, bolts to 9/16 with a collar (which is what the kits provide).

There are guys on here with bone stock under 10k miles that noticed unusual wear when changing the bolts. Cheap insurance to prevent Death Wobble!
07-22-2014 10:49 PM
CrossOps Ok, I will go ahead and state that I am very new to jeeps. But to clarify... are you saying my brand new 2015 Wrangler is going to need to do this? Brand new?
07-22-2014 10:16 PM
SteedGun One more thing I did on mine. I put Tri-Flow on all the bushings as I put them back. The bushings will start to squeak once they dry out and it will drive you nuts trying to find the one squeaking. I know I spent almost a month hunting down some serious squeakers on my 2010. So, when I was replacing all the bolts on my 2014 I put Tri-Flow on all the bushings. Mine is quiet as a mouse.
07-22-2014 08:56 PM
T3Knical5urg3 How is this not stickied? This is far more important then some of the other stickied topics.
07-22-2014 05:43 PM
Tnewcomb
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteedGun View Post
You will be sore for days. I am very glad mine are all done. I actually did the LCAs, TBs, and UCAs. I bought both bolt kits from Synergy. I did them all just to be sure. I am very glad I have a long breaker bar and torque wrench. This is real work for sure but really worth the time and effort.

If any of you end up doing the UCAs you might want to PM me as there are a few tricks to getting two of the bolts started. I can save you a lot of time.
You are not kidding about being sore but still glad I did it myself and I do feel some difference hitting the bumps on the roads going back and forth to work.
07-21-2014 08:16 PM
NoGaBiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013 Moab View Post
I did my spring swap while on ramps, it was very easy actually. Just put a floor jack under the side that you are working and remove that one ramp, now just drop the floor jack down ant you have plenty of travel.
But then you aren't "up on ramps," are you, hence my answer.
07-21-2014 06:48 PM
2013 Moab
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
well, yeah, you sure are. The wheel can't lower if it's on a ramp. For springs you'll need to be on jackstands.
I did my spring swap while on ramps, it was very easy actually. Just put a floor jack under the side that you are working and remove that one ramp, now just drop the floor jack down ant you have plenty of travel.
07-21-2014 06:36 PM
flyfishnevada I loosened all the bolts on the ground and and then put the Jeep frame on jack stands and the axle on smaller ones when we needed to support it or support it on one side or the other to let the other side down to put in springs. With the Jeep and axle on stands, we changed to bolts, one by one. Sometimes it took a little gentle persuasion to get the holes to line up. But if you do one at a time and everything is supported, it's never more than a 1/4 inch or so.

Once you're done and all the nuts are on securely, put the Jeep in the ground and go around tightening and torquing them. It ain't fun but it can be done. Don't tighten the nuts before it's on the ground. The idea of loosening the bolts and all the CA's and TB's is to let those rubber bushings relax. If you snug up the nuts in the air, you could compress the bushing and it will twist when you put the Jeep on the ground.

Now, if you want to cheat, you can leave the axles on jack stands for some of the bolts. Just too hard to get at, the rear mainly. The Jeep was sitting on the springs with just the tires off and the axles supported (one axle at a time, of course). That should sit at ride height if you position the jack stands at about ride height under the axle.

Having the extra stands was handy. If you don't have a smaller 2 ton pair, get some. If you don't have the 6 ton jacks, get those to get the Jeep higher in the air to give your self room to lower the axles.
07-21-2014 06:25 PM
H3br3whamm3r81 Got it! That's what I was thinking but for some reason, I was doubting myself. So, for suspenion bolts, I could drive her up the ramps. For springs and shocks, I need to jack up the body so the entire axle/ wheel pair is off the ground.

So, how would you do springs/ shocks/ all suspension bolts altogether? You have to unbolt control arms and track bars while doing the spring/shocks, right?

If what I'm thinking is right, then I should be using jack/ jackstands on the body, then replace the suspension bolts and springs/shocks while Jeep is on jackstands, but don't torque suspension bolts to spec until Jeep is on ground. Is that right? If that's right, it would be a waste to get ramps for this install, right?
07-21-2014 05:30 PM
NoGaBiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by H3br3whamm3r81 View Post
Cool, thanks guys. I might just go with the Rhino ramps then.

I've never done suspension work on a Jeep. From my understanding, to install springs, you need to lower the axle with a hydraulic jack underneath. I'm not going to have any problem doing that with the Jeep on ramps, right?
well, yeah, you sure are. The wheel can't lower if it's on a ramp. For springs you'll need to be on jackstands.
07-21-2014 02:25 PM
flyfishnevada Since I happened to see this thread, I thought I'd mention I changed out my bolts, lowers and TB's, when I installed my 2.5 TF lift. 1800 miles and my bushing were already scored. Only a couple of trips off road, maybe 30 miles total out of the 1800 and nothing serious. Just two tracks and dirt roads with a bit of rocks but pretty easy stuff.

Glad I changed them out! It sucked loosening, removing, tightening and re-torquing all those bolts but I had to loosen and re-torque anyway with the lift install. Now, I have some piece of mind that my bushings aren't being torn to shreds.
07-21-2014 02:10 PM
H3br3whamm3r81 Cool, thanks guys. I might just go with the Rhino ramps then.

I've never done suspension work on a Jeep. From my understanding, to install springs, you need to lower the axle with a hydraulic jack underneath. I'm not going to have any problem doing that with the Jeep on ramps, right?
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