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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-15-2012 04:33 PM
meneedjeep Yep, 1% is really not that much. I'm happy with what I'm getting. I don't even have the jeep yet. I've never owned a jeep, so I'm pretty excited about this. I'll really enjoy making it the way I want it.
08-15-2012 03:44 PM
Dollar
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuba_steve

I agree.

Frankly, I'd rather take 1% below invoice with a local, convenient reputable dealer than drive two hours for another 1% off and then have to deal with any issues after the fact by driving back there...perhaps more than once.
+1. I think some people forget that 1% of 30K is $300. Sometimes it's not worth the extra aggravation.

With that said, I'll still be trying to get below 1%. LOL!
08-15-2012 03:28 PM
scuba_steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinc View Post
So glad to hear that ethics still exist. I do wonder sometimes.

I agree.

Frankly, I'd rather take 1% below invoice with a local, convenient reputable dealer than drive two hours for another 1% off and then have to deal with any issues after the fact by driving back there...perhaps more than once.
08-15-2012 03:25 PM
scuba_steve One other thing to consider -- the dealer also makes money at least five other ways:
  1. Dealer-added options
  2. Service plans
  3. Your trade-in
  4. Dealer financing
  5. Dealer fees


If they don't have dealer-added options, you have no trade-in, finance elsewhere, and they have reasonably small standard fees, then yes, I agree with this thread.


That said, some fraction of folks stating that they got a significant percentage under invoice are likely to have not noticed that their dealer shifted the profit to one of these other areas. For example, they may have traded in a vehicle at far less than they could have gotten elsewhere. Even if you sell at wholesale (the max of what the dealer should normally be willing to pay...but often they offer less), they may be able to flip your trade for a 1 or 2k profit. I have a friend who sold cars for years who stated that this is where his dealership made most of their profit.


Furthermore, many folks who look at their paperwork carefully notice that the dealer financing paperwork doesn't always agree with the deal that they thought that they negotiated.


My advice:
  • Negotiate each aspect of the deal separately
  • Never pay for dealer-added options. Tell them they have no value to you. If they resist, tell them they can remove them. They won't.
  • Consider selling your trade to a private party instead. You will get closer to the retail blue book value...and craigslist is free. An extra 1 or 2k here is worth a heck of a lot more than an extra 1% under invoice.
  • Don't finance - buy a car that you can afford to pay for with cash on hand. It is a depreciating asset...and financing depreciating assets is usually a bad idea.
  • If you do need to finance, shop around. You can usually do better than the dealer...unless there is a special manufacturer promotional rate. Also, if you need to finance for more than 48 months, you are probably buying too much car for your current financial situation.
  • Check your paperwork carefully...and ensure that it agrees with the deal that you negotiated.
$0.02
08-15-2012 03:20 PM
Zinc
You Rock, meneedjeep!

So glad to hear that ethics still exist. I do wonder sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meneedjeep View Post
My deal isn't complete yet, but I did have a vehicle shipped from another dealer to my dealer. So, I've commited to purchase the vehicle at 1% below invocie. I'm going to have to be ok with that, if I can't get something more out of him.

Once I make a commitment to somebody, and they begin doing work for me, I don't have much choice but to follow through. It's a personal thing.
08-15-2012 02:49 PM
meneedjeep My deal isn't complete yet, but I did have a vehicle shipped from another dealer to my dealer. So, I've commited to purchase the vehicle at 1% below invocie. I'm going to have to be ok with that, if I can't get something more out of him.

Once I make a commitment to somebody, and they begin doing work for me, I don't have much choice but to follow through. It's a personal thing.
08-15-2012 12:19 AM
Xavier1911 As someone else mentioned, USAA pricing hasn't been avail on the Wrangler since Jan 2012. If you use their service they give you the ZAG "Target" price which is about invoice.

Looking around here last month, in the DC area. Costco pricing was $500 off invoice for in-stock vehicles ONLY. USAA pricing was just invoice. TL is set to 1% below invoice.

What I've learned from researching on here and other resources on the web...
All Jeeps and perhaps other Chrysler vehicles have a 3% dealer Hold Back (HB) amount factored into the invoice price. This is 100% profit for the dealership.
So lets say the invoice price is 30K, the HB will be $900. Dealers also receive possible hidden kick backs such as bonuses for meeting sales numbers, goals, etc.. That the average customer won't be able to find out about.

In reality, if you are getting 1-2% off invoice, that's really crap. If you want to push the envelope, start by finding the invoice price then asking for at least 3% off. Then add any incentives.. Anything less than that is not a good deal.

For the buyers who have gotten several thousands off the MSRP.. Refer to the "other" hidden kick backs that dealers get. If someone knows how to find out what that amount is, please let us know!

Bottom line:
Use ZAG to find out the average selling price.
Start haggling at 3% under invoice minimum.
Look for extra dealer fees: Freight, processing fees, etc.
Get a sale price in writing.
Add incentives if you qualify.
08-14-2012 10:44 PM
meneedjeep
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsA View Post
I just ordered my JKUR for 3% under "invoice"/FWP at a Dallas-area dealership. No haggling, no need for TL membership, nada.

LarsA
3% under invoice, no haggling, no nothing. I had one here in California that quit talking to me when I mentioned TL! I guess it all depends where you are, and possibly a bunch of other variables.
08-14-2012 08:37 PM
LarsA I just ordered my JKUR for 3% under "invoice"/FWP at a Dallas-area dealership. No haggling, no need for TL membership, nada. Thanks to "Blazer"s recommendation (he had already pinged all the dealerships in town), the whole experience was quite painless. The sole Costco-affiliated dealer in town only quoted at straight invoice. There's also just one local dealer in the USAA program, and they're way over in Fort Worth; besides, they only offered FFP (1% under FWP) when I first contacted them.

I'm wondering if these "below invoice" prices will disappear once the 2013 JK marketing campaign kicks in, and the masses start flocking the dealerships in search of new JKs?

FWIW,

LarsA
08-14-2012 08:22 PM
meneedjeep Using the tread lightly. I just bought a 2012 Rubicon Unlimited. $39K. Fully loaded. We haven't completed the transaction yet. I just need to go to the dealership to do that. I may have been able to get it below the 1%, but I didn't try. I've bought quite a few cars from this guy, so I'll see what I can do when i get there.
02-21-2012 06:59 PM
Old Shadow Yep USAA incentive ended 31 Jan. I got my JK 27 Jan and used it!
02-21-2012 04:48 PM
Sherifftruman
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinion View Post
If the USAA site will let you in after you log in, I'm guessing yes, but you might have to call to be sure. The only thing is, the USAA $1000 is over as near as I can tell for the Wrangler. Last I looked they were not offering it for anything but the Patriot and Compass right now. Seems like it ended at the end of January.
Having just been down this road, there is definitely not an extra $1000 off via the USAA program right now.
02-21-2012 04:46 PM
flyinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalearyous View Post
i currently bank with USAA even though i have no ties to the military, can i still use USAA's pricing and discount? i plan on using tread lightly as well.
If the USAA site will let you in after you log in, I'm guessing yes, but you might have to call to be sure. The only thing is, the USAA $1000 is over as near as I can tell for the Wrangler. Last I looked they were not offering it for anything but the Patriot and Compass right now. Seems like it ended at the end of January.
02-21-2012 04:44 PM
Sherifftruman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Cricket View Post
Sad to see such conversations take place with all these false figures.. (and by false figures I mean the idea that the manufacturer and/or dealer are the ones who set up these "invoice" prices... Invoice should mean cost. No one should be able to buy a good product (not a left over, etc) for less than cost. When I hear people use terms like "x% under invoice" it makes me a bit sad to think that this game is still played (by both buyer and seller). Where else can you go to buy an expensive product and have the salesman look at you with a straight face and offer a price that is x% below cost?

Sorry for the rant... Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.
I usually put "invoice" in quotes just because of what you are saying. Unfortunately, while it is better for the buyer now with forums like this and the other sources of info, it is still a rigged game.

The guy I was dealing with said he still had people walk off the street and pay sticker on Wranglers.
02-21-2012 04:07 PM
dalearyous i currently bank with USAA even though i have no ties to the military, can i still use USAA's pricing and discount? i plan on using tread lightly as well.
02-21-2012 04:00 PM
bofa I'm not sure if you are serious or not...

The "invoice" is not the actual amount the dealer paid for the vehicle.

Edit - reread it and I think you are arguing that we shouldn't be negotiating with fake figures... such as cost, invoice, MSRP, etc. I agree... but it's part of the game I suppose.
02-21-2012 03:51 PM
Fishin Cricket Sad to see such conversations take place with all these false figures.. (and by false figures I mean the idea that the manufacturer and/or dealer are the ones who set up these "invoice" prices... Invoice should mean cost. No one should be able to buy a good product (not a left over, etc) for less than cost. When I hear people use terms like "x% under invoice" it makes me a bit sad to think that this game is still played (by both buyer and seller). Where else can you go to buy an expensive product and have the salesman look at you with a straight face and offer a price that is x% below cost?

Sorry for the rant... Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.
02-21-2012 03:33 PM
flyinion I was going to go with Tread Lightly, even signed up. Then after that I found out about USAA and was able to use them in January when they were still offering 1% + $1000 off. That $1000 is the only reason I bothered to use them since I'd already signed up at TL. Oh well, I know my $60 to TL went to a good cause, and I still potentially have other benefits from it.
02-21-2012 02:27 PM
bofa Thanks for all the replies so far.

I was playing around on NFCUs buying program site and kept hitting script errors so I decided to call. I found out that you can't get the pricing until you provide your information and visit a dealer. Pretty disappointed with that .

After some more research it sounds like their program is through Affinity, which I believe is the same as the Costco program, so I'll assume about 1% below invoice.
02-21-2012 08:56 AM
Sherifftruman If the service at USAA has gone downhill, thats amazing.. As it is, I almost feel embarrassed at how nice they are every time I call and we just started dealing with them 6 months ago.

Like you said, it may be more of an indictment of everyone else though.
02-21-2012 08:43 AM
Vyper340
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoneypit View Post
Love USAA, great bank, great member service.
Used to have... Greatness has given way to "good". As a 25 year member I have seen a downward shift of service levels. The sad part is that the alternatives are that much worse so it appears the USAA is better.

Jim Collins states in the book Good to Great that good IS the enemy of Great. Think about it
02-21-2012 07:06 AM
SilverSport I casually mentioned to the salesman I was a USAA member and got the USAA price without asking.
02-21-2012 07:05 AM
Sherifftruman I just bought and used USAA at first, but ended up using Tread Lightly because the dealer that had the Jeep we wanted was not participating in the USAA program. (three in the area do participate and three or four don't) Also, the pricing we got with USAA was just 100 less than the Tread Lightly discount.

The USAA program is actually run by Truecar by the way.

It was nice having several options to go to dealers with so most of the negotiating was done via email before we even went in.
02-21-2012 06:51 AM
Cosmic Charlie I started with the Tread Lightly discount. First quote from a dealer with the TL was $900 ABOVE invoice. I laughed at them. Other dealers would honor it, but would not go below 1% under invoice. So, I checked out truecar.com and also the Bank of America car buying service. Bofa quotes were better in my case. The dealer I chose was about 3.3% below invoice and was willing to honor that price on a special order. I placed the order for my Arctic. I turned out to be a day late for ordering the Arctic so I decided to take the one they had on the lot. In the end, my price was 4% under invoice for that Arctic on the lot.
02-21-2012 01:18 AM
lovecheese I completely haggled. Talked them down to 24 and slapped a 21K check on the desk. My salesman said they won't budge from 24K... I got up and started to walk out and he said "whoa whoa whoa, hang on... let me get my manager."

So in end... Money talked. Having cash (outside preapproved loan) > trying to be dealer approved.
02-21-2012 01:03 AM
ronrad
Truecar.com

I went in originally with tread lightly, asking for a 2% on an order.

They came back with a bit about "allocation" and only able to do 1%. I went to truecar.com and had one dealer come back with a quote of $900 under invoice, and out the door price that worked out a bit less than $600 under the 1% tread lightly. I went back to my original tread lightly dealer and asked for and received the 2% under invoice (which is still slightly more than the truecar price, however, the treadlightly dealer is much closer to home, so it was worth the $300 diff to me)

At any rate, I would highly recommend trying the truecar route. Looks like they can often beat affiliate, it's just as simple / haggle free, and it doesn't require getting a membership. However, I don't mind the membership anyway, and I'm probably going to use the 100 GoodYear rebate as well.
02-20-2012 07:45 PM
smaxberry I used edmunds.com. Then searched the Internet of dealers I might buy from. The one closet to or under invoice I called and got the skinny. Found out what their out the door with all costs compared their interest verses cash back plus interest from my bank. A dealer who will show you what you need to bring to buy, line by line is a good salesman. And if they have a different number when you show walk. You never owe money regardless of what they say to ship or obtain a vehicle, except for destination fee, can't get around that one.
02-20-2012 06:09 PM
Mr. Fish Costco = 1% below invoice, no questions asked. Got a bit more off through haggling.
02-20-2012 04:27 PM
bofa
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0nx View Post
USAA price here. 3.3% under invoice. No other way to buy.
Interesting. Was that with the extra $1000 incentive they were running or was that what was on the price sheet?
02-20-2012 04:23 PM
themoneypit Love USAA, great bank, great member service.
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