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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-27-2012 09:20 PM
Oldguy Your rig, your choice

I think you'll end up with a good setup out of it and I hope it goes well
02-27-2012 08:58 PM
Colo-TJ Well I have decided to stick with my original plan and do a straight swap with the truss system that I posted earlier TJ 8.8 Swap Kit with Truss. If later i decide to go 4 link the truss can be modified to accept it. so there you have it. I just ordered the truss. I hope to have this upgrade done by the end of April so I can enjoy it this summer. I truly do appreciate and respect all of your input but I think this will do fine for what I need at the moment. And later I may kick myself in the rear but for now I'm smiling...
02-27-2012 07:53 PM
Oldguy Yup, that's an axle all right. First thing you need to do is strip everything off the tubes and plug the brake connections. Hope it wasn't a leaf spring setup. Those cast leaf mounts are a bitch to cut off...
02-27-2012 06:37 PM
Colo-TJ here she is in all her beauty. just got it home... Gentlemen start your welders
02-26-2012 04:59 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
you have choices, I usually go with the long arm set ups. Using the factory length links and pickup points is kind of limiting TJ links are just to short
Yeah, that's why I'm building from scratch. Current layout has 24" horizontal links on a bolt on cross member. Heavy lower links cuz they will get a lot of abuse if I start chasing you up waterfalls
02-26-2012 04:31 PM
wanderlust you have choices, I usually go with the long arm set ups. Using the factory length links and pickup points is kind of limiting TJ links are just to short
02-26-2012 04:25 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
on the stock components roughly have a +/- 20% if you modify the truss you can get that to a -20% to a +40% I think it is in the area of 65% antisquat if you just throw it on. I would have to look at my notes, those are in my toolbox at work, so do not quote me as of yet.. I have never taken this set up over 4 inches of lift FYI. I think all is out the window over 4inches of lift. I usually wind up in the 3.5 inch range. highlined and if needed a 1inch body lift puts it on 35-37s depending.
That's better than I expected, I can see why you would use the kit. Since, if I remember right the kit uses stock lower links and all the frame link mounts 3.5 would be the realistic upper limit on spring lift. I assume all adjustment is on the truss brackets. 65% isn't a bad starting point, especially if it is driven on the street. Taking it to 85% or 105% would be all I could see for rocks, that is all I'm planning for at this point. If I am missing something here please let me know while I'm still in the planning stages
02-26-2012 03:00 PM
wanderlust on the stock components roughly have a +/- 20% if you modify the truss you can get that to a -20% to a +40% I think it is in the area of 65% antisquat if you just throw it on. I would have to look at my notes, those are in my toolbox at work, so do not quote me as of yet.. I have never taken this set up over 4 inches of lift FYI. I think all is out the window over 4inches of lift. I usually wind up in the 3.5 inch range. highlined and if needed a 1inch body lift puts it on 35-37s depending.
02-26-2012 02:29 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
The RK kits are easy to get the squat out of. The biggest problem with most current TJ setups is the axle loading and unloading "hop" they get. I took a new friend out yesterday to RAM to shake down his setup and see where we needed to go with it. He has a rubicon express 5.5 longarm, procomp adjustable piggyback shocks and has been bastardized by a ton of different people over the years. He is running a 37inch radial IROK tire. Friday night I gave it a good inspection and centered his axles. Had to actually cut his trackbar threads to get more adjustment just to get the damn front axle to center, was a total mess. we set his wheelbase at 94.5 inches, squared everything up and decided to go with it.

So, the story, his jeep is great on ledges and seems to now drive on the street better. We are going to lower it by an inch, go to a 4link rear and ditch the rubicon express radius arms..

The problem is the thing just hops like a pissed off monkey if it gets in any type of traction loss. We where messing around on a few 3 ledge waterfall type climbs at the park. I would rate one of them an 8 and one a solid 6. there was a buggy that got denied on the 8. It took a little work but I made it up, THE only reason I did is I get ZERO hop out of my setup and can let my tires spin and find the traction they need. Dude with the buggy was very confused, but realized his setup was wrong and he would get axle hop something fierce.

Moral to all this is a well thought out setup is splitting hairs and taking your time. I will update on the TJ after I get my dirty little hands on it again. My friend is all in so I am unsure of what I am going to do with it. I like his crossmember and will build off of that for the 4link rear. I may go with the synergy truss on this jeep. From a blank canvas I choose the RK stuff hands down, only because I have spend a ton of time with it.

p.s. I am no longer on a four link rear, I am back to a factoryish rear setup unitl I get my 3link stuff sorted out.
I like the synergy truss, nice and snug to the housing. Think I am going to be hacking mine so that I can set the links lower. I'm trying to keep my lift as low as possible and it's getting a little tight on top. I know that I will be swearing a blue streak at some point: "OK, idiot, now exactly how did you think you were going to get a wrench on that nut?" Oh, well

Oh yeah, now I remember what I was going to ask, when you tweak the RC setup, how much adjustment can you get on the anti squat percentage?
02-26-2012 02:15 PM
wanderlust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
Ohhh kayyy, 35's, long wheel base, close to stock rear suspension. Even with a very high driver quotient, isn't that kinda pushing it?
a little, skidplates get a workout
02-26-2012 01:53 PM
Colo-TJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
ram video.m4v - YouTube

here is a short gopro video on what we where playing on. The camera is on my winch
looks like she did pretty good to me
02-26-2012 01:50 PM
Colo-TJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageless Stranger View Post
Congrats on the upgrade bud. You'll love the 8.8 with an ARB in it. That's what I have, and I love the lockers. My lockers were 850 apiece this time last year. Sucks that the price went up that much in only a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
Chad, watch 4WheelParts for one of their big sales. You can usually get about 20 percent off, and I'd guess the ARB stuff would apply. They a big labor day sale 3 or 4 years ago and I got my Detroit Trutracs for like 25 percent off. On high buck items it can save a major chunk of change.
yeah thats my luck... i always decide to do these things just a little too late. oh well Like you say Ed i am sure i'll catch them on sale if i'm patient. problem is I want it and I want it now...LOL
it's all good. the 8.8 that i bought has the factory locker so I can run it untill I get my lockers and re-gear figured out
02-26-2012 01:48 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
ram video.m4v - YouTube

here is a short gopro video on what we where playing on. The camera is on my winch
Ohhh kayyy, 35's, long wheel base, close to stock rear suspension. Even with a very high driver quotient, isn't that kinda pushing it?
02-26-2012 01:25 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageless Stranger View Post
Congrats on the upgrade bud. You'll love the 8.8 with an ARB in it. That's what I have, and I love the lockers. My lockers were 850 apiece this time last year. Sucks that the price went up that much in only a year.
Chad, watch 4WheelParts for one of their big sales. You can usually get about 20 percent off, and I'd guess the ARB stuff would apply. They a big labor day sale 3 or 4 years ago and I got my Detroit Trutracs for like 25 percent off. On high buck items it can save a major chunk of change.
02-26-2012 10:43 AM
wanderlust ram video.m4v - YouTube

here is a short gopro video on what we where playing on. The camera is on my winch
02-26-2012 10:26 AM
Ageless Stranger Congrats on the upgrade bud. You'll love the 8.8 with an ARB in it. That's what I have, and I love the lockers. My lockers were 850 apiece this time last year. Sucks that the price went up that much in only a year.
02-26-2012 10:20 AM
wanderlust The RK kits are easy to get the squat out of. The biggest problem with most current TJ setups is the axle loading and unloading "hop" they get. I took a new friend out yesterday to RAM to shake down his setup and see where we needed to go with it. He has a rubicon express 5.5 longarm, procomp adjustable piggyback shocks and has been bastardized by a ton of different people over the years. He is running a 37inch radial IROK tire. Friday night I gave it a good inspection and centered his axles. Had to actually cut his trackbar threads to get more adjustment just to get the damn front axle to center, was a total mess. we set his wheelbase at 94.5 inches, squared everything up and decided to go with it.

So, the story, his jeep is great on ledges and seems to now drive on the street better. We are going to lower it by an inch, go to a 4link rear and ditch the rubicon express radius arms..

The problem is the thing just hops like a pissed off monkey if it gets in any type of traction loss. We where messing around on a few 3 ledge waterfall type climbs at the park. I would rate one of them an 8 and one a solid 6. there was a buggy that got denied on the 8. It took a little work but I made it up, THE only reason I did is I get ZERO hop out of my setup and can let my tires spin and find the traction they need. Dude with the buggy was very confused, but realized his setup was wrong and he would get axle hop something fierce.

Moral to all this is a well thought out setup is splitting hairs and taking your time. I will update on the TJ after I get my dirty little hands on it again. My friend is all in so I am unsure of what I am going to do with it. I like his crossmember and will build off of that for the 4link rear. I may go with the synergy truss on this jeep. From a blank canvas I choose the RK stuff hands down, only because I have spend a ton of time with it.

p.s. I am no longer on a four link rear, I am back to a factoryish rear setup unitl I get my 3link stuff sorted out.
02-25-2012 10:44 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colo-TJ View Post
This is what it looks like now under there. sprry about the mud ..havent had a chance to wash it out from last weekend yet
axle crap pictures by Bealach01 - Photobucket
Hey don't sweat it, you should see the mess under mine If I didn't know what links I have I couldn't identify them on a prayer Look like big mud covered hotdogs...

Ok, so your lowers are stock. Assume your uppers are also. Thought you might have installed the Teraflex long arm when you did your lift. No matter, probably better to start clean.

Lets wait and see what Wanderlust has to suggest about the RC kit. Would probably work fine if you got rid of the squat.
02-25-2012 05:57 PM
Colo-TJ This is what it looks like now under there. sprry about the mud ..havent had a chance to wash it out from last weekend yet
axle crap pictures by Bealach01 - Photobucket
02-25-2012 10:50 AM
Oldguy Question for you, Chad. You have a 3 1/2 Teraflex lift, right? What control arms are you using with that?
02-25-2012 10:03 AM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
you are right, the RK stuff is not perfect, but can be modified easy enough. Agian, I am lazy so When doing jobs for others I start with prefabed stuff and adapt it to my standards
I use the cost effective approach. If it is cheaper for me to fabricate or if I can't find exactly what I want, then I fabricate. I always have to figure in welding costs since any suspension stuff that I do is tig welded by a certified welder.

The axle truss is a case in point. I went with the Synergy truss because it was exactly what I wanted and to fabricate it would have been a major PITA. Everything else is pretty easy so I'll just make all that myself. I intend to build it with a lot of adjustment capability so I doubt that I could even find exactly what I need.
02-25-2012 09:48 AM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
you found my secret Very good article and the links to the link calculators are priceless
Well, I promise not to tell anyone else

It really is an excellent starting point. Fred Williams is a very sharp guy.

Been through a lot of the four link threads on Pirate, lot of good information and perspectives on four links pertaining to rock crawling. Lot of gobblety-gook also so it's a good idea to have the basics down before you start digging through a twenty page thread
02-25-2012 09:27 AM
wanderlust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
If a four link is set up correctly they are far superior to stock, especially with a lift. Check out Imped's build thread. He started with a RC four link. He talks a lot about its' good and bad points. The only real issue he had was excessive squat. That he corrected with different mounting points.

See the biggest problem with a lot of the production four link kits is they try to use existing link mount points. This, in the long run, sucks because your roll axis will be skewed and the anti squat is also going to be out of control.

This is why I am building mine from scratch. That way you can get a good roll axis (horizontal) and can set up to adjust the anti squat anywhere from 50 to 100 percent. This simply cannot be done using existing bracketry.

If your interested I'll try to post some of my planning work and where I 'm trying to go with it.

See, and you thought it was going to so easy
you are right, the RK stuff is not perfect, but can be modified easy enough. Agian, I am lazy so When doing jobs for others I start with prefabed stuff and adapt it to my standards
02-25-2012 09:22 AM
wanderlust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post
TRS Magazine - 4-Link Suspension

Here is a link to a very good article on four link design. While the particular design doesn't suit itself to swb Jeeps, it covers all the basic concepts needed to plan and understand four link suspensions.

If you have questions, please ask, the first few times through it can be pretty confusing
you found my secret Very good article and the links to the link calculators are priceless
02-25-2012 08:39 AM
Oldguy TRS Magazine - 4-Link Suspension

Here is a link to a very good article on four link design. While the particular design doesn't suit itself to swb Jeeps, it covers all the basic concepts needed to plan and understand four link suspensions.

If you have questions, please ask, the first few times through it can be pretty confusing
02-25-2012 05:25 AM
Colo-TJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy View Post



If your interested I'll try to post some of my planning work and where I 'm trying to go with it.

See, and you thought it was going to so easy
Please do.... anything worth doing is ALMOST never easy.
thanks for the input . this is exactly the kind of stuff I Need.
02-25-2012 05:24 AM
Colo-TJ [QUOTE=

If your interested I'll try to post some of my planning work and where I 'm trying to go with it.

See, and you thought it was going to so easy [/QUOTE]

Please do.... anything woth doing is ALMOST never easy.
thanks for the input . this is exactky the kind of stuff i'm talking about.
02-24-2012 10:50 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colo-TJ View Post
point well made Ed

Ok I see how it works now. how are the road manners wth this type of rear sus?
If a four link is set up correctly they are far superior to stock, especially with a lift. Check out Imped's build thread. He started with a RC four link. He talks a lot about its' good and bad points. The only real issue he had was excessive squat. That he corrected with different mounting points.

See the biggest problem with a lot of the production four link kits is they try to use existing link mount points. This, in the long run, sucks because your roll axis will be skewed and the anti squat is also going to be out of control.

This is why I am building mine from scratch. That way you can get a good roll axis (horizontal) and can set up to adjust the anti squat anywhere from 50 to 100 percent. This simply cannot be done using existing bracketry.

If your interested I'll try to post some of my planning work and where I 'm trying to go with it.

See, and you thought it was going to so easy
02-24-2012 10:33 PM
Oldguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
BTW 4 link kicks butt, I already miss mine
Yes, but you can console yourself with dreams of your three link
02-24-2012 09:20 PM
Colo-TJ defenatly got me thinking.....
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