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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-11-2008 03:20 PM
Rawkon I disagree, Ive been working with heat exchangers and radiators on boats and truck/cars for years. and have worked with several radiator shops. and have never been told that more rows isnt better. Yes i agree you can have too many rows and over compact it/hindering its air flow capabilities. but a proper designed 2 or 3 row copper will always out perform a 1 row of the same metal. the only way you will see a 1 row out perform a multiple row radiator is when the 1 row is 3 times the size of multiple row rad. its pretty simple how it works. Saying less cooling passages means more cooling doesnt add up. You add more cooling passages properlly you get better cooling.

I just looked at griffen and they make 2 rows or more. they do have 1 row but its a custom job for vehicles like dragsters who dont need to run for long periods of time.
05-11-2008 02:42 PM
mr4x4 what if you get a 1 core radiator thats core is the same width as a two row
exept that the 1 core is aluminum and the 2 core is brass
05-11-2008 01:21 PM
Jerry Bransford Aluminum vs. brass doesn't affect the cooling differences between 1, 2, or 3 row radiators. All that means is with the same design, aluminum cools better no matter how many rows there are. They are independent of each other and either can be a constant. An aluminum 1 row cools better than a brass 1 row, and an aluminum 2 row cools better than a brass 2 row. But an aluminum 1 row cools better/more efficiently than a 2 row aluminum.

Blaine described it so well in his recent post I quoted above that it really helped my understanding of the issue, even though I had finally figured out that more rows doesn't equate to better cooling years ago.
05-11-2008 01:10 PM
Rawkon what doesnt make sense in my head is for the past X amount of years all the racing application and higher end radiators have more tubes and more fins per square inch then stock. and in return they kick ass when it comes to cooling.
If your talking about only aluminum rads, well you have to take into account that aluminum dissapates the heat waaay better then most metals, which means you can have less rows and add more airflow. theres a reason when you buy a tow package on a heavy duty truck it doesnt come with a 1 row radiator. but it has 3 or more rows and more fins per square inch.
I wheel the same deserts you do so i know what your talking about. even with my E fan and 3 row rad, when i was in the mojave national preserve in the spring on a 100 degree day my coolant temp was hovering around 220.
05-11-2008 12:25 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawkon View Post
how do you figure Jerry, adding more rows adds to the cooling exchange capacity of the radiator. the more fluid you get to the radiator at the cooling fins the more heat exchanging you get. which means a more efficiant radiator. the only way your gonna get a more efficiant single core is if the radiator is 4'x8'.
I can't say it any better than Blaine Johnson (mrblaine) said it recently at http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showp...6&postcount=24

"The balance point you speak of is not the number of tubes, it's the relationship between the surface area of the tubes and the amount of fin contact. The fins are folded into V's. If you put wide V's in with lots of distance between the two peaks, you high air flow with minimal heat extraction. If you put the peaks very close together, you have lots of heat extraction, but have restricted the airflow.

The balance point is maximum contact of the fins and their surface area without restricting airflow.

As far as your two row, again, it's all about surface area. Radiators have a fixed dimension front to back that the core can fit into. There is a minimum distance from the front edge and the same from the back edge that the coolant tubes can fit into. There is also a minimum distance that tubes can be from one another.

Anytime you add a space, you have to make the tube shorter front to back. More spaces equals narrower tubes.

The maximum use of space is 1 row of a much wider tube. It's just an issue of real estate available in the front to back width.

The only reason 1 row radiators weren't used in more apps sooner is because the equipment and metallurgy for making them wasn't good enough. As higher quality aluminum alloys have come about to deal with the longer walls front to back in the tubes, they've been able to make them longer and more efficient." (end of Blaine's comment)

While it seems logical more rows equals better cooling, that's really not the case. Go look at some of the really nice but expensive all-aluminum radiators made for extreme offroading needs and you'll find they are usually a single row design. Especially if they're made for hot desert wheeling conditions as I wheel in.
05-11-2008 12:15 PM
mr4x4
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubthechub View Post
Its only a temporary fix till I get my electric fan. If anyone knows of a good one please let me know. I've heard that a taurus sho fan works well, but I only have a little over 4 inches between my water pump and the aftermarket radiator I put in and it won't fit. Thanks
the taurus two speed fan does work I have one in my jeep and just installed one in a friends jeep you need to trim it down and mount it upside down
heres some pics with it installed

and installed in my jeep

the overflow bottle bracket I made
05-11-2008 11:56 AM
Rawkon how do you figure Jerry, adding more rows adds to the cooling exchange capacity of the radiator. the more fluid you get to the radiator at the cooling fins the more heat exchanging you get. which means a more efficiant radiator. the only way your gonna get a more efficiant single core is if the radiator is 4'x8'.

the water channel size doesnt effect the cooling as much as the fins per square inch. the more fins per square inch the better off you are. also bigger tubes means faster movement of the coolant, which also means less cooling , and yes having tubes too small will also hurt you becasue you wont have enough flow.
05-11-2008 11:17 AM
Jerry Bransford What temps are you getting now?

By the way, going from your OE 2-row to a 3-row radiator just made it harder for your cooling system to cool. Staying with a 2-row or going to a 1-row would have been better as less rows mean bigger water channels which are more efficient at cooling. Jeep even went from 2-row to 1-row radiators a few years ago for this reason.

One more thought, your fan shroud is still in place right?
05-11-2008 11:11 AM
bubthechub I spun it by hand the other night and there was a little resistance, but when I took it off and spun it about ten times it loosened up to where there was almost no resistance at all. I welded the thing so it is direct drive and it doesn't overheat so I'm pretty sure it was my problem. Its only a temporary fix till I get my electric fan. If anyone knows of a good one please let me know. I've heard that a taurus sho fan works well, but I only have a little over 4 inches between my water pump and the aftermarket radiator I put in and it won't fit. Thanks
05-05-2008 12:59 AM
AzTJ First, the next day before driving it, pop the hood and try spinning the fan as hard as you can. If it spins more than like 5 times, the clutch is more than likely toast and needs replacing.
05-04-2008 11:49 PM
mr4x4 try your fan clutch
you can replace you 5 blade fan with a 7 blade fan
05-04-2008 11:49 PM
ct-tj +1 on the fan clutch, Id still go with an electric fan though.
05-04-2008 01:41 PM
parrot head Fan Clutch
05-04-2008 12:37 PM
Triple88a Is your AC on? Maybe ur clutch is worn out or something so its not engaging strong enough?

People that have problems with over heating do hood vents however there are not many of them.
05-04-2008 12:30 PM
bubthechub
Need Overheating Help!!!

So I've been trying to solve the overheating problem in my jeep for a long time now and I've replaced the thermostat, radiator (put in a three row), water pump (high flow), and flushed the system. I'm pretty sure I've done everything short of replacing the belt driven fan with an electric and that's my next step. What will happen is it will run at temperature till I either go off road or am in bad traffic at lower speeds. Any suggestions on what could be causing this would be appreciated.


99 TJ w/ 4.0 automatic

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