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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-03-2014 04:33 AM
rdg04578
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
I am glad to see some love for REAL winter tires in this thread. I have no doubt that Duratracs are a fantastic all-around tire and, by all accounts, do quite well in most winter conditions. It is another thing to say that, studded or not, they are equal to a dedicated (especially studded) winter tire on the road in icy conditions.

Notice that certain types of tire always tend to share certain characteristics. MT's - big voids to sling mud, which in turn requires hard compounds because of the relatively low contact area. AT's - moderate voids, more siping, still relatively hard compound to ensure longevity. Winter tire - small voids, substantial amounts of siping, and a soft compound that will not hold up under summer temperatures.
nicely put and everyone here is big on Durtacs but bottom line they are just all terrain tires and studded helps but they are not snow tires
01-02-2014 12:49 PM
i82much I am glad to see some love for REAL winter tires in this thread. I have no doubt that Duratracs are a fantastic all-around tire and, by all accounts, do quite well in most winter conditions. It is another thing to say that, studded or not, they are equal to a dedicated (especially studded) winter tire on the road in icy conditions.

Notice that certain types of tire always tend to share certain characteristics. MT's - big voids to sling mud, which in turn requires hard compounds because of the relatively low contact area. AT's - moderate voids, more siping, still relatively hard compound to ensure longevity. Winter tire - small voids, substantial amounts of siping, and a soft compound that will not hold up under summer temperatures.
01-02-2014 12:35 PM
Michel347
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_saint View Post
The articles posted above are GREAT.

I wish they tested the non-studded Hakka 7 or 8s versus them with studs.

I also wish that we had access to the tires that they have overseas.

The differences in stopping distances on ice between the best and worst WINTER tire is AMAZING.
In the report provided here you have the results for the studded Hakka 8 and non-studded Hakka R2. From other tests I have seen the non-studded R2 are superior to the non-studded R8, so this can give you some sort of idea. Really the R8 are meant to be studded.

But again these tests are often just a good indication.

For the north american SUV market in the non-studded, here is another ranking.

As a side note these were from some tests made in 2012 they don't show the 2013-2014 results yet, you have to pay...

The one for the cars is from 2013-2014 (where studded Hakka R7 are the top).

Automobile Protection Association | 2013 Winter Tire Reviews: SUV Tires

Automobile Protection Association | 2013 Winter Tire Reviews: Passenger Car Tires
01-02-2014 10:42 AM
the_saint
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Jeep Guy View Post
The Hakkapeliita 7 are available in dimensions suited to the Wrangler and are amazing dedicated winter tires IMHO. They are available with or without studs which is good as studs are not legal everywhere.

The articles posted above are GREAT.

I wish they tested the non-studded Hakka 7 or 8s versus them with studs.

I also wish that we had access to the tires that they have overseas.

The differences in stopping distances on ice between the best and worst WINTER tire is AMAZING.
12-30-2013 10:29 AM
That Jeep Guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPhoto JK View Post
Some info..

Studded vs Studdless from Nokian Studded or Non-studded Tires

As awesome as the Nokian tire may be, it is still offered studdable.

Nokian Hakkapeliita 5 studded https://www.1010tires.com/Tires/Revi...akkapeliitta+5

Studded vs non studded review http://www.aveq.ca/uploads/9/3/4/2/9...d_r_review.pdf

Consumer report Putting studded, studless winter tires to the test
The Hakkapeliita 7 are available in dimensions suited to the Wrangler and are amazing dedicated winter tires IMHO. They are available with or without studs which is good as studs are not legal everywhere.
12-30-2013 05:52 AM
mainemuscle I live in Maine where snow driving and ice driving is the norm. This is my first winter with duratracs and I love them so far!!!!
12-29-2013 11:49 PM
JTPhoto JK Some info..

Studded vs Studdless from Nokian Studded or Non-studded Tires

As awesome as the Nokian tire may be, it is still offered studdable.

Nokian Hakkapeliita 5 studded https://www.1010tires.com/Tires/Revi...akkapeliitta+5

Studded vs non studded review http://www.aveq.ca/uploads/9/3/4/2/9...d_r_review.pdf

Consumer report http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...test/index.htm
12-29-2013 04:29 PM
Breitling I use to drive with Blizzak's on my previous Grand Cherokee's (09 & 11) and this is my first winter on Duratracs/JKU combo. In fact I drove on 5 different models of Blizzak's considering my another smaller car's. Overall and if I turn On 4hi - JKU drives well on snow with Duratrack's, however it is not as near as confident feelings as on Blizzak's. 2hi will spin Duratracs and slide your Jeep on turns, I wouldn't suggest 2hi at all while on snow and ice.


12-29-2013 03:08 PM
rdg04578 bottom line the durtracs are an aggressive all terrain tire--so the are a compromise of technology and will perform well in a magnitude of situations but they are not designed to or will out -perform a mud tire in mud (deep cloppy mud), a road tire on the road (dry and wet braking and handling), and certianly not a winter tire on ice and snow.
12-29-2013 02:42 PM
the_saint
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
Amazing how those duratrac engineers made a better winter tire than all the other tire engineers making dedicated winter tires. come on.

This is my point that I was trying to make....

The Blizzaks are better than the studded Generals on ice due to the technology being significantly better.

Of course adding 1/2 inch studs/screws to the a tire will make it better on ice, and adding street studs to the same tire will make it better than the same tire non-studded.

But for the street I suspect the Hakka 7s will be better than the studded Duratracs.

On the ICE tracks (racing) studded tires with studs that you would not use on the road will be superior.

Scandinavian winter tire tests show this already in testing.
12-28-2013 05:55 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPhoto JK View Post
Ever gone to ice races ... Evidently not.
Amazing how those duratrac engineers made a better winter tire than all the other tire engineers making dedicated winter tires. come on.
12-28-2013 05:08 PM
JTPhoto JK
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
Hah! Hey if you are going to make something up at least go long, I give you credit for not being shy.
Ever gone to ice races ... Evidently not.
12-28-2013 05:05 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPhoto JK View Post

As for the tire comparison. Blizzacks are awesome hands down, however, they will NOT keep up with a studded Duratrac period in any winter condition.
Hah! Hey if you are going to make something up at least go long, I give you credit for not being shy.
12-28-2013 05:01 PM
Vt rider I'd go for the Duratracs for spring, summer and fall.
For serious winter driving, I do Nokian Hakkapellitta studded tires.
IMHO there is nothing better.
However, I don't do off road in the winter, but do drive rural, dirt roads in Vermont without a problem.
12-27-2013 08:09 PM
JTPhoto JK
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_saint View Post
I would love to see this comparison. The studded Duratrac versus the Blizzak and the Nokian Hakka 7. I suspect that even the non-studded Hakka 7s would beat the studded Duratrac.
Not likely. We have auto ice races in the winter here and they have different classes for studded and unstudded. Unstudded cannot go near as fast as the studded class on a circuit track.

I also photograph ice racing motorcycles and although they are a bit different stud (not a spike) then a car tire they can grip glare black ice.
12-27-2013 07:58 PM
the_saint
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPhoto JK View Post

As for the tire comparison. Blizzacks are awesome hands down, however, they will NOT keep up with a studded Duratrac period in any winter condition.
I would love to see this comparison.

The studded Duratrac versus the Blizzak and the Nokian Hakka 7.

I suspect that even the non-studded Hakka 7s would beat the studded Duratrac.
12-27-2013 07:18 PM
JTPhoto JK
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
Maybe some more folks from Canada could chime in here. Will Dura-tracs meet the new requirements?
Yes Duratracs meet the Canadian requirement. They are classified as an aggressive A/T Not an M/T. There are very few tires that have the snowflake emblem on them.

As for the tire comparison. Blizzacks are awesome hands down, however, they will NOT keep up with a studded Duratrac period in any winter condition.
12-27-2013 05:22 PM
Michel347 We are up to almost 3 feet of snow here, in this early winter, I agree, the Blizzak DM-V1 blow away the Michelin X-Ice 3 of my wife's and X-Ice 2 of my daughter.

To my surprise, after now 3000 km, to don't show any wear yet, but it is still early to comment about wear. As far as traction and braking I must say they are impressive.
12-27-2013 04:48 PM
the_saint Have had the General Arctic Altimax on the JKU for a few months.

Thoughts:

1. Better than stock tires.
2. Better than Duratracs on ice/slush according to the Jeep that slid into an intersection while I had no issues stopping in the same conditions (we were side by side, until he couldn't stop).
3. Quite stable in the snow/slush. Better than Michelin X-Ice2s on my AWD Subaru or my wifes Mercedes 4matic.
4. Ice traction is satisfactory for a winter tire. Requires a much more 'gentle' turn in to maintain traction, I suspect the weight of the Jeep has a large aspect to this, but nowhere near the confidence I have with the Michelins.

I just put a set of Blizzaks on my dad's Maxima (his uncool Christmas gift) this afternoon and took it for a road test and they blow the Michelins and General Altimax away for ice-grip as well as snow.

My next set for the Jeep will be the Nokian Hakka Whatever they will be selling in 4 years.


Final Verdict: I am very glad that put winter tires on the Jeep and feel that they are a worthwhile investment. I don't drive through snow more than 12 inches deep very often so can't comment on that kind of performance.
12-27-2013 01:01 PM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Jeep Guy View Post

I apologise for my lack of DuraTrac love here, I know they are claimed to be magical but I drive in real on and off road situations and am not the kind to trust in magic.
Smart guy here. There is no magical tire that is optimal under all circumstances. The Duratrac may be the best compromise ever, but it is not a true winter tire. For that matter, it is not a true mud tire. It may be pretty darn good in the mud and pretty darn good in the winter, and it may be the best choice for 95% of folks. But if your first concern is really driving on the road in the winter, and in particular black ice or glare ice, a TRUE winter tire is your best bet besides chains.
12-27-2013 12:59 PM
That Jeep Guy
Oops

I forgot to mention that I do go off road in winter with the Discoverer MS. I've winched out a number of time in mud holes in the rest of the year but, so far, not in winter. (no mud holes I guess)

They are not perfect or the greatest - off road in winter - but will do fine until I fit the ST Maxx.
12-27-2013 12:55 PM
That Jeep Guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepinNW View Post
I've been assuming that when I buy my Jeep I will have a set of summer tires/wheels and a set of winter tires/wheels.

I need proper winter tires (with the mountain/snowflake logo) for the winter. In the world of cars, you generally don't use your winter tires in the summer.

I now see that I might be thinking about this all wrong. The DuraTrac tires (which seem to be popular among Jeep owners?) are severe snow rated.
Wrangler DuraTrac | Goodyear Tires

Is anyone here (in areas where winter tires are needed in the winter) using two different sets or do you just choose a good tire that is also snow rated and use it all year round?

Perhaps it would be more useful/economical to do this:
- Buy the Jeep with the cheapest wheel/tire option. That's the 16" steel rims with the Wrangler ST tires. I would throw these on for long highway road trips.
- Buy a second set (15" rims with 33" DuraTrac?) for offroad/local/winter use. Realistically these would sit on the car most of the time.
As Omar mentioned, according to Goodyear in Europe, DuraTracs are not winter rated. Yes, I understand that they do have the snowflake. But it is more than a bit odd that the manufacturer would advertise the same exact product as having certain properties in one part of the world but not in another - unless there are differing definitions of "sever winter conditions"

I am currently running Cooper Discoverer MS on a 2013 JKU and ran this same set of tires on my 2010 JKU for three years. That should say something about my satisfaction with the wear and the grip of these tires.

But, around september I was planning to put the Cooper ST Maxx on - but winter crept up on me before I could solve the issue of added weight on the stock spare tire carrier (my dear wife was understanding enough to just shake her head and roll her eyes when I announced I was replacing 5 perfectly good tires with 5 new and expensive ones, but convincing her of the added cost of a new bumper and tire carrier didn't happen before winter arrived. Fingers crossed for a solution by next year.)
With the DuraTracs not a legal option here (and probably not a sensible one either due to our icy roads) I just put on the old 17" Coopers.

As far as the OPs original question goes, I would recommend:
Keep what came on the Jeep for long trips like on-road family vacation trips etc. for the mpg, ride, and noise.

Definitely get the ST Maxx for off road, if your budget allows for a tire carrier (or my alternate plan of four ST Maxxs and the original spare).

And in the winter use an actual winter tire, preferably studded where legal, and I highly recommend the Cooper Discoverer MS based on actual experience.

I apologise for my lack of DuraTrac love here, I know they are claimed to be magical but I drive in real on and off road situations and am not the kind to trust in magic.
12-27-2013 12:50 PM
ptp023
Duratracs

I've only been driving on mine for about two months, but I live in the Harsh Winter Wastleand of ND... & they've worked great for me so far on ICE & SNOW...
12-27-2013 11:22 AM
JerryJeepster I don't do winter driving here in Florida but the Duratracs are stud compatible!
12-27-2013 11:14 AM
Omar Brannstrom Howdy from Sweden

Goodyear in Sweden say that Dura trac is not a winter tire and then not allowed in Sweden in wintertime. So Dura trac is not a true winter tire, so maybe the rubber is to hard or to few saipings?

But what do they mean? Ofcourse Goodyear want to sell tires but they say that Dura Trac is not a tire for the winter use. They only mension UltraGrip SUV here as a legal tire here.


Goodyear-däck*

I think here the manufacturer says here what is legal or not.

I wanted a aggressive wintertire and I went with Cooper st Maxx and according to Cooper in Sweden it is a wintertire and then it is legal in Sweden.

ST maxx have less sieps than a duratrac but is legal here, but if Goodyear sold st maxx they would probably not be concidered as a wintertire and not be legal.

A true wintertire is better but looks boring thats why I went with the most aggressive approved wintertire here and I got mine studded 265/70/17 Cooper st Maxx

12-27-2013 11:00 AM
Strokerswild
Quote:
Originally Posted by robskully View Post
I have been using BFG All-Terrain T/A KO tires on all my trucks for 25 years all year round. The last 11 years I have even plowed with them on my 3/4 ton Dodge. Never got stuck or slid of the road in Winter.
Rob .....
My previous favorite all-around tire.
12-27-2013 10:43 AM
robskully I have been using BFG All-Terrain T/A KO tires on all my trucks for 25 years all year round. The last 11 years I have even plowed with them on my 3/4 ton Dodge. Never got stuck or slid of the road in Winter.
Rob .....
12-27-2013 10:04 AM
i82much
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancake House View Post
Duratracs are the *only* MT that is rated for winter and compliant with the new driving laws. That being said, a 12.5" wide tread face is often undesirable with it's lower contact patch psi.

Studded arctic claw tires on my Jku, sandbags and my recovery gear right on the axle for more weight
We had a horrible storm of 5hrs of freezing rain, followed by a 12" dump of snow, then a -25 deep freeze. Hard pack glare ice for 2 weeks everywhere.

Setup worked great.
I wouldn't really call a Duratrac a mud terrain. Closer than an all-terrain, but not a true MT.
12-27-2013 09:10 AM
Pancake House
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
Maybe some more folks from Canada could chime in here. Will Dura-tracs meet the new requirements?

Duratracs are the *only* MT that is rated for winter and compliant with the new driving laws. That being said, a 12.5" wide tread face is often undesirable with it's lower contact patch psi.

Studded arctic claw tires on my Jku, sandbags and my recovery gear right on the axle for more weight
We had a horrible storm of 5hrs of freezing rain, followed by a 12" dump of snow, then a -25 deep freeze. Hard pack glare ice for 2 weeks everywhere.

Setup worked great.
12-27-2013 09:03 AM
i82much Just because it has a snowflake does not mean it is a true winter tire. Ice performance from anything other than a dedicated winter tire is going to be iffy at best.
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