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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-02-2012 03:54 PM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbilly View Post
Looks like ur the one who cant let it rest, there. Let me guess, ur a car dealer? lmao
Well aren't you Captain Obvious!
06-02-2012 02:14 PM
Fishin Cricket
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratex79 View Post
How do you tell a car buyer is lying? Their lips are moving.
There, I fixed that for you.

lol

You people...
06-02-2012 02:02 PM
Paratex79 How do you tell a car salesman is lying? Their lips are moving.
06-02-2012 01:55 PM
woodbilly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Cricket View Post
Do you have to practice at being such an argumentative jerk, or does it just come naturally?
Looks like ur the one who cant let it rest, there. Let me guess, ur a car dealer? lmao
06-02-2012 01:45 PM
Up Hill Bill Well, that'll be about it for this thread then.....
06-02-2012 01:11 PM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslee97206 View Post
For a new car dealer you are correct. I have a few friends that have a dealer license and sell their own cars so in that case they are one in the same. You seem to be a bit of a grouch towards others today. Wake up on the wrong side of bed?
Not argumentative at all. He wants to throw insults, he should expect them in return. I'd already mentioned I'd been in auto sales and was THANKFULLY fired because I wasn't scummy enough. That's all I said. I also said that all salesmen aren't scumbags. I made that clear. If he FAILED to read what I was stating, that's not my fault. I can't be held accountable for someone else's reading comprehension issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Cricket View Post
Do you have to practice at being such an argumentative jerk, or does it just come naturally?
I'm sure in your line of swindling, you have far more experience than I do.
06-02-2012 01:00 PM
jameslee97206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
A dealer and salesperson are entirely different entities.
For a new car dealer you are correct. I have a few friends that have a dealer license and sell their own cars so in that case they are one in the same. You seem to be a bit of a grouch towards others today. Wake up on the wrong side of bed?
06-02-2012 12:53 PM
Fishin Cricket
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
Don't care what ya think, people who don't think salespeople are shady scumbags are in the minority.

Coming from the mouth of a car salesman, I'm sure all your comments are staples of credibility.
Do you have to practice at being such an argumentative jerk, or does it just come naturally?
06-02-2012 12:42 PM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Cricket View Post
Ah, but you don't have to do business with THOSE guys.

Feel free to continue your diatribe, though.. I'm sure we'll all consider the source.



Like I said, consider the source. lol
Don't care what ya think, people who don't think salespeople are shady scumbags are in the minority.

Coming from the mouth of a car salesman, I'm sure all your comments are staples of credibility.
06-02-2012 12:34 PM
Fishin Cricket
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
People continue to deal with them BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PURCHASE A NEW VEHICLE ANYWHERE BUT THROUGH A DEALERSHIP.
Ah, but you don't have to do business with THOSE guys.

Feel free to continue your diatribe, though.. I'm sure we'll all consider the source.

Quote:
congrats on your fail
Like I said, consider the source. Rude people say rude things like this.
06-02-2012 12:06 PM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslee97206 View Post
So which one is is it con artist?
A dealer and salesperson are entirely different entities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin Cricket View Post
He doesn't know, he's just talking to hear his ego rattle.

People such as he describes are only still in business because people like him will continue to deal with them. Period.
Congrats on your fail. People continue to deal with them BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PURCHASE A NEW VEHICLE ANYWHERE BUT THROUGH A DEALERSHIP.
06-02-2012 11:53 AM
Fishin Cricket
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslee97206 View Post
So which one is is it con artist?
He doesn't know, he's just talking to hear his ego rattle.

People such as he describes are only still in business because people like him will continue to deal with them. Period.
06-02-2012 11:27 AM
jameslee97206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post

The fact remains that dealers are scumbags, period. "
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post

I believe there are some decent people in car sales.

So which one is is it con artist?
06-02-2012 04:30 AM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslee97206 View Post
^^ Unethical business practice does start at the top. Doing blow or cheating on your wife has nothing to do with the car business. I'm a car guy and don't use drugs or cheat on my wife. That happens anywhere, not just car dealerships. I'm with you on that particular guy being a scumbag
I know all about working for a company who practices unethical business practices. Do a Google Search on "The Ballenger Group."

The fact remains that dealers are scumbags, period. I'd agree it starts at the top, but it doesn't say much about the people who continue to "play the game."
06-01-2012 10:28 PM
jameslee97206 ^^ Unethical business practice does start at the top. Doing blow or cheating on your wife has nothing to do with the car business. I'm a car guy and don't use drugs or cheat on my wife. That happens anywhere, not just car dealerships. I'm with you on that particular guy being a scumbag
06-01-2012 10:21 PM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslee97206 View Post
As stated above it really starts with the owner of the dealership. I've been in the industry Many many years. I've worked for less than ethical dealerships, seen it all from blow in the sales office to sawdust stuffed in transmissions. This doesn't make all dealers bad people as there is a lot of car guys that are out to do the right thing. The lot I work at has been in business since 1974 and has has a huge base of return customers. We keep them happy no matter the cost. I've been there 5 years. It really pisses me off seeing bad practice and shady crap from other dealers. The worst part is seeing crap like this from a franchise dealer like the OP is dealing with. Watch these 2 clips from the movie suckers, I've worked at lots like this.
Suckers Pt 1 - YouTube

Suckers Pt 2 - YouTube

On another note, I've helped a few people on here with dealer disputes, my advice is sound and free. I must fit that scum bag car dealer profile right.
Wow, that's funny. I didn't realize it "started at the top" when it came to snorting coke and cheating on your wife while at work. Care to explain? I don't recall that being covered during my sales training.
06-01-2012 10:16 PM
jameslee97206 As stated above it really starts with the owner of the dealership. I've been in the industry Many many years. I've worked for less than ethical dealerships, seen it all from blow in the sales office to sawdust stuffed in transmissions. This doesn't make all dealers bad people as there is a lot of car guys that are out to do the right thing. The lot I work at has been in business since 1974 and has has a huge base of return customers. We keep them happy no matter the cost. I've been there 5 years. It really pisses me off seeing bad practice and shady crap from other dealers. The worst part is seeing crap like this from a franchise dealer like the OP is dealing with. Watch these 2 clips from the movie suckers, I've worked at lots like this.
Suckers Pt 1 - YouTube

Suckers Pt 2 - YouTube

On another note, I've helped a few people on here with dealer disputes, my advice is sound and free. I must fit that scum bag car dealer profile right.
06-01-2012 09:49 PM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueNorth View Post
Just about shot coffe out my nose when I read this.

I was a lowly lot attendant teenage car wash kid back in the 80's and MAN oh MAN did you hit the nail on the head!!!

Lines on desks, sex in the breakroom, whisky bottle in the drawer and hand rolled "smokes" at every break.
Those guys would sell thier mother a lemon to make a sale.
Can't say the mechanics or detailers were any better. Old parts painted black going into cars, thick yellow stuff called motor honey to quiet worn out motors, and funny how no used car they sold ever had over 80K on it?

Nobody seemed to give a crap about anything as long as cars went out the door and money came in.
It was a debaucherous mess and everyone there was in on it but me.

I was given a Datsun 280Z with a deep rod knock and thick coat of Porche red paint over rust when I left for college.
Gee, thanks guys! Your the best.

But I'm sure thats all changed since then and used car salesmen are straight and legit as politicians now.
Lemme tell ya all about this one sleazebag. This guy was at his desk one day with his "mistress" when his wife walks into his office and wants to go to lunch. Know what he says to his wife? "Lemme finish up with this customer and then I'll be right out!"

Yeah, that's right. This scumbag was getting visits from his "side piece" at work and had the audacity to blow off his wife. The best part about the whole entire thing is that his "side piece" KNEW this woman was his wife!

Sure, lemme apologize for the reputation of car salesman, I mean, we're in the wrong for disliking car salesmen. This experience, plus my own, now equates to AT LEAST TWO dealerships in separate locations that this behavior's going on.
06-01-2012 06:20 PM
TrueNorth
Quote:
Stereotypes are based on truths. People didn't just wake up one day and decide, "Ya know what, let's accuse car salesmen/women of being slimey, coke-snorting, dirtbags."
Just about shot coffe out my nose when I read this.

I was a lowly lot attendant teenage car wash kid back in the 80's and MAN oh MAN did you hit the nail on the head!!!

Lines on desks, sex in the breakroom, whisky bottle in the drawer and hand rolled "smokes" at every break.
Those guys would sell thier mother a lemon to make a sale.
Can't say the mechanics or detailers were any better. Old parts painted black going into cars, thick yellow stuff called motor honey to quiet worn out motors, and funny how no used car they sold ever had over 80K on it?

Nobody seemed to give a crap about anything as long as cars went out the door and money came in.
It was a debaucherous mess and everyone there was in on it but me.

I was given a Datsun 280Z with a deep rod knock and thick coat of Porche red paint over rust when I left for college.
Gee, thanks guys! Your the best.

But I'm sure thats all changed since then and used car salesmen are straight and legit as politicians now.
06-01-2012 12:37 PM
Threecard
Quote:
Originally Posted by carguyco View Post
I'm feeling very hurt right now..

did you know that "most" car salesman are regular guys just like you guys?
Did you know that "most" car salesman are honest guys that are just trying to make a living?

Sigh..

I'm starting a thread.....

"this is why I hate car buyers who hate car salesman"
If it helps, I've had very good experiences with nearly every vehicle I've purchased. And I've purchased quite a few.
06-01-2012 11:42 AM
jrode I had a pretty lousy experience the other day. It was my first time going in to attempt buying a vehicle (everything I drove through HS and college was passed down). I took a 2007 X (60k miles) for a test drive and really liked it. The price I saw online was $17,427, which was a fair price according to Bluebook, but I went in hoping I could get them down to around 16 or so.

After taking it for a spin, I asked him what the sticker on it was and he said he'd have to go look because it's "live market pricing," which I've never heard of. My dad hadn't either. So we go inside and are looking over the CarFax and stuff and the guy asks if I'd been looking at any other Jeep's. I said yeah, I found a 2006 Sport with 14k less miles than the one he was trying to sell me and that it was about $3k less. I explained that I like the JK a little bit more and was willing to pay a little more for it. He asked what price I was thinking and (knowing to start lower), I said i could probably do $15k or so ($16k would have been the absolute max I could have afforded). He acted very insulted by that price and then explained that he couldn't move $1 off the sticker price because it's "live market" pricing. I asked what that meant and he said it was the dealerships computer system. They search a 300 mile radius (allegedly) and the computer then prices the car competitively with other vehicles. I questioned that, saying the 06 I was looking at was $3k less. He then explained that their computer only looks for the same year model, so it was only looking at 07s.

I then told him that having a vehicle a year older with less miles didn't bother me and that if he couldn't move off of that price at all, I guess that wasn't the Jeep I was going to be purchasing. I was fine with that, I had no problem with them not budging much since it was a fair price according to KBB, but they ran me through the ringer afterwards. They made me and my dad wait at least another hour. He went to get his sales manager to try to hook me into a long-term loan to afford it and I told them time and time again what I could afford and what/how long I wanted to make payments and they kept on going. Should have just up and left. Next time I will.
06-01-2012 10:31 AM
toms01TJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichabod View Post
It all starts with the guy/gal who owns the dealership. If he/she is a crook, the staff will all be crooks.
A lot also depends on the "usual" clientele of the dealership.
Bingo!

I spent about 3 years in car sales (new & used) before my conscience got the better of me. Salespeople at most Dealerships are rewarded and put upon a pedestal if the can sell the whole package, whether the customer wants it or not.

In most cases - The salesperson will make more money selling you an extended warranty or "protection package" than they will in actual commission (especially w/new car sales).

Most dealerships do encourage this behavior because for every person who revolts against it - Three or four will simply accept it, and allow it to be rolled into the loan. Most banks will allow 20% in add-ons for a loan to a customer with decent credit. This means that if you buy a 10k used wrangler, they will finance up to 2k in "extras." Everyone profits, except the borrower. That's why I do not use any dealer financing, and have myself pre-approved thru my personal bank prior to making a deal anywhere.

At one dealership I worked (total of 2) they had a guy whose only job was to sell you something extra. You were not getting out of there without buying something, even if it was only a couple of floormats or a pin-stripe. Once you agreed to the basic sale, you had to sit with him prior to meeting with the finance person. Salespeople were in awe of him, and would have carried him around on their shoulders if they could have. He was their hero.

It made me sick how they competed to see how hard they could screw a customer, and sat around high-fivin' one another after a particularly hard screwing. At the Mandatory Monday sales meeting, the sales manager would reward those same salespeople for their unethical practices with crisp $100 bills. It's a culture that still exists, although I believe that dealers are probably more honest than they used to be (thank you Internet!).

My .02
06-01-2012 10:05 AM
Ichabod It all starts with the guy/gal who owns the dealership. If he/she is a crook, the staff will all be crooks.
A lot also depends on the "usual" clientele of the dealership and what they will tolerate.

My wife has a GMC Acadia. She started having transmission problems and drove it to the GM dealer nearest to where she works that we aren't very familiar with. It's in a kinda run down part of town in a different county.
.
I picked her up, and later the dealership calls and says the transmission is shot and needs to be replaced or rebuilt, but they have to wait for GM to authorize the work under the manufacturers warranty.

We didn't really care because it's costing us zilch.

They have the car for two weeks and give it back to us with what they claim is a rebuilt tranny.
Six weeks later, more trouble and we take it to the dealer nearest to our house.

Long story short, this dealer tells us that the other dealer probably scammed GM out of the warranty work (inflated labor costs and used parts charged to GM as new), and that they are known for unethical behavior. They took pictures of the damage and said they would report it to GM, but didn't expect much to happen.

As of this past Tuesday, we have a brand new transmission, and we got the car back in four days with a free extended warranty.

The difference between the two GM dealerships is night and day. i would guess it works the same with Chrysler.
06-01-2012 08:48 AM
Zurn I remember when I bought my 05 YJ new. We arm wrestled for several hours till I got the deal I wanted. The next day I get a phone call that my financing fell through for the 95, only had 3 left on the lot as the 97s were on the truck coming to the dealership, BUT they could get me in a Tracker at the same price. I told them I would be there in 30 minute to return the YJ and have my trade in car ready for me to drive home. They literally started stuttering on the phone and said they would "Make it work". They had 30 Trackers on the lot. lol Very low brow move on their part. Only other time I went back to that dealership was for a warranty fix on my front driver's side wheel bearing. I am told it is finished and go outside to pick it up. They had destroyed my light bar by running it through their car wash without even telling me they were going to. They got to cut me a check on the spot for the repairs. I never went back after that.
06-01-2012 08:35 AM
Con Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by carguyco View Post
I'm feeling very hurt right now..

did you know that "most" car salesman are regular guys just like you guys?
Did you know that "most" car salesman are honest guys that are just trying to make a living?

Sigh..

I'm starting a thread.....

"this is why I hate car buyers who hate car salesman"
Stereotypes are based on truths. People didn't just wake up one day and decide, "Ya know what, let's accuse car salesmen/women of being slimey, coke-snorting, dirtbags."

That being said, I believe there are some decent people in car sales, and having been in car sales myself for a VERY BRIEF period, I'd met some, BUT most of them I worked amongst met the stereotype to the T. I could tell all kinds of stories about some of the things I witnessed for that one month I was in car sales, starting with the fact I was fired because I wasn't willing to "rape" little old ladies who hadn't a clue when it came to purchasing a vehicle. We were instructed to just tack on options, (Scotchguard, rust protectant, etc.) regardless what the customer wanted, and just cross our fingers and hope the customer didn't realize they were taken for a ride until 3 days after making their purchase. That's only one story.

In the end, I'm glad I got fired. It was a sure clarification I wasn't a scumbag.
06-01-2012 07:13 AM
trfjones
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyPrawn View Post
In 2007 when I started looking for my first Jeep, I went to a dealership in Freehold, NJ. It was close to home, and one of the first places I looked. I wasn't in a rush to get a vehicle, so I had all the time in the world to shop.

I'm talking to the salesman with my dad, and he's showing me this Jeep. I don't remember full details about it, but I remember it was around 2 years old with like 60k miles on it. I remember looking under the Jeep and just seeing tons of rust. The salesman told me that they just got the Jeep in and they hadn't looked at it yet. Honestly, I liked the Jeep enough that I was willing to take a bit of a risk on it... especially since my dad and I could fix anything we would need to. All I asked was for him to guarantee that the Jeep would pass inspection. He refused and told me it would only be sold as is.

Of course, I walked. I remember leaving and the salesman actually said: "Good luck finding a used Jeep for cheaper in better condition."

I found one a year newer, half the miles, and 3k cheaper than he was asking for. Plus, the new dealership took off all the decals I didn't want before I left and changed my top for me. I never did, but I should have, taken the Jeep to the first dealership and showed him what he swore I would never find.

And that's why I walk if a dealer seems shady or starts playing games, especially since I'm a woman and that immediately makes a salesman think I'm gullible.
showing them the jeep you found is pointless.... they KNOW you are right, they are just liars...
akin to my story... yelling at rodney because i agreed to prep the jeep shouldnt mean agreed to some bogus extra package... the reality is he KNOWS i didnt agree, he just plays dumb
06-01-2012 07:11 AM
trfjones
Quote:
Originally Posted by carguyco View Post
I'm feeling very hurt right now..

did you know that "most" car salesman are regular guys just like you guys?
Did you know that "most" car salesman are honest guys that are just trying to make a living?

Sigh..

I'm starting a thread.....

"this is why I hate car buyers who hate car salesman"

fair enough...i'm sorry if this thread hurt your feelings - i am big enough to admit that i was wrong to project that on all salesmen (esp car salesmen)... i was just venting at the shitty experience i had with one particular dealership
05-31-2012 01:26 PM
FiveBoro
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxstarD View Post
You think I give a crap if you believe me? You don't think they inflate prices for wiggle room. It wasn't new I purchased it with 12,000 miles on the odometer. You can call me a liar if you want, that's the deal I made.
Was the Jeep you purchased used too?
05-31-2012 11:50 AM
TreeClimber1
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxstarD View Post
It wasn't new I purchased it with 12,000 miles on the odometer.
05-31-2012 11:36 AM
daggo66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Charlie View Post
This aimed at me?
I wasn't "aiming" it at anyone or even at this thread, it's just my personal opinion from reading all the jeep forums for the past few years.
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