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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-06-2012 07:14 PM
JeeperJake I've done hard $cost comparison back a few years ago when I was trying to figure out whether to buy a diesel pickup or gas.

At the time, diesel was at 35/cents/gallon less than gas. That ain't the case now.

And comparing F250 and Ram CTD with same running gear, my numbers told me it would have been close to 200,000 miles to the break even point before either FACTORY OEM started 'saving money'.

For my use, that would mean at least 10+ year before any 'cost advantage'. I'm at the point where I don't like to drive my rigs that long anyway, so there was no point for me.

Currently in my area, diesel is running 10-25 cents/gallon MORE expensive than gas....and I'm SURE not drive anywhere near as much as just 2 years ago.
10-06-2012 06:51 PM
951Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyJeepMan View Post
You could see that mpg easy on the highway in a light vehicle such as a Jeep. Your truck weighed probably almost half of what a 2 door JK would.

On 37" tires, 32mpg? As stated from Bruiser...

I think you also meant my truck weighed 2 times as much as a 2dr JK.
10-04-2012 06:34 PM
IndyJeepMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by 951Jason
The swap just doesn't seam practical. Having just sold my 05 F-250 Diesel, I can tell you now, your not going to be saving any money with the diesel. I can't see anyone getting 32 mpg with 37's on anything, even with a tail wind..

If you really want to spend 18k+, just buy yourself a economy car, and call it a day. I bought a 2011 Hyundai Elantra for 17k (30+mpg) and it's a damn nice car with a 100k mile warranty.

Insurance will give you a multi-car discount so you'll save a bit of coin there as well..

Another option is to just drive the Jeep, enjoy the Jeep, fill up a bit more often, and enjoy it. Isn't that the reason we all bought the darn things.. to drive them!

-Jay
You could see that mpg easy on the highway in a light vehicle such as a Jeep. Your truck weighed probably almost half of what a 2 door JK would.

Its an expensive mod for sure, im enjoying my 3.9l 4BT in my cummins, and in Indiana insurance didnt seem to care, and we have no emissions, even if we did its 32 years old. Lol.
10-04-2012 06:22 PM
951Jason The swap just doesn't seam practical. Having just sold my 05 F-250 Diesel, I can tell you now, your not going to be saving any money with the diesel. I can't see anyone getting 32 mpg with 37's on anything, even with a tail wind..

If you really want to spend 18k+, just buy yourself a economy car, and call it a day. I bought a 2011 Hyundai Elantra for 17k (30+mpg) and it's a damn nice car with a 100k mile warranty.

Insurance will give you a multi-car discount so you'll save a bit of coin there as well..

Another option is to just drive the Jeep, enjoy the Jeep, fill up a bit more often, and enjoy it. Isn't that the reason we all bought the darn things.. to drive them!

-Jay
10-04-2012 05:45 PM
Jeep_88
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3JKs1H1 View Post
Unfortunately you will likely never get your money back. Using easy numbers, say you drive 18000 mile a year, that's about 1000 gallons of gasoline. Even if diesel was at the same price as unleaded (it is not) and you used only 600 gallons, those 400 gallons saved only saves you ~$1600/yr. So your payoff is around 12 yrs.

As soon as you pull your factory drivetrain, you are pretty much on your own. The factory network can't really support it since your diesel properly talk to your cluster, tipm, etc. Not saying a diesel shop can't do it, but it's pretty specialized.

Modern diesel fuel systems (CRD) are relatively simple to understand, but often difficult and expensive to troubleshoot and repair.

In 2006 I put a 5.9 Cummins CRD in an H1, did all the work myself and it was expensive. Driveshafts, radiators, fan, shrouds, intercoolers, motor mounts, tranny mounts, integration into the electronics, fitment, heater and (possible a/c fitment issues, etc)

Doing a conversion is a labor of love, you learn how everything works, but it costs a lot of time and money.
I totally hear ya on the conversion being a labor of love... I'm a huge diesel fan myself however, like most are saying it's not really worth it, at least now anyway so like I said earlier, I strongly considered it but in the end it wasn't worth it for me, even with some possible cost savings down the road, the issues you face with registration and insurance, more wear and tear on the front end are most likely too high, plus if we're lucky when our 2013's are worn out close to 2025 when the corporate average fuel economy has to be close to 55mpg maybe they'll have more fuel efficient wranglers we will just have to hope that they don't turn it into a Fiat Panda that 'might' be an open top model like the Chrysler rep said about the 2016's
10-04-2012 02:04 PM
BruiserConversion Hello everyone! Thanks for your interest in our conversion. As it has been said in the thread, to get our conversion with the sole purpose of saving money on gas, based on current value, may not be the best idea.

At current gas prices, you are saving about $2.03 per gallon (19 mpg stock @ $3.49 per gallon vs. 32 mpg stock @ $3.85 per gallon). This means every 32 miles you drive (1 gallon) our conversion will save you $2.03 compared to stock, which means, you would have to drive about 340,000 miles to cover the cost of the conversion. This kind of mileage is definitely possible with a Cummins as most last between 300,000 - 500,000 depending on usage and maintenance. Whether or not it will actually benefit you depends on how much you drive it and how long you keep it (and the cost of gas vs diesel).

One factor that can skew these results is gearing/tire size. The stock engine has a harder time running larger tires which can reduce its mpg, whereas the diesel doesn't see a significant drop in mpg based on tire size (unless you are going huge). We are running 37s with 4.10s on our 2007 and seeing 32 mpg on highway, our truck also has steel skid plates, bumpers, etc. which definitely don't help the mpg. For instance, let's say you are experience more like 15mpg, this would make the break even point at about 190,000 miles instead!

The cost of our conversion starts at $18,500, but our most popular package is $21,500. I based my calculation on the $21,500 cost.

Most of our clients end up doing our conversion for one or more of the following factors: current engine no longer working, more off-road power, diesel love, bio-diesel, its badass, etc.

Thanks and let me know if I can be of further assistance,
Andre
10-04-2012 01:52 PM
3JKs1H1 Unfortunately you will likely never get your money back. Using easy numbers, say you drive 18000 mile a year, that's about 1000 gallons of gasoline. Even if diesel was at the same price as unleaded (it is not) and you used only 600 gallons, those 400 gallons saved only saves you ~$1600/yr. So your payoff is around 12 yrs.

As soon as you pull your factory drivetrain, you are pretty much on your own. The factory network can't really support it since your diesel properly talk to your cluster, tipm, etc. Not saying a diesel shop can't do it, but it's pretty specialized.

Modern diesel fuel systems (CRD) are relatively simple to understand, but often difficult and expensive to troubleshoot and repair.

In 2006 I put a 5.9 Cummins CRD in an H1, did all the work myself and it was expensive. Driveshafts, radiators, fan, shrouds, intercoolers, motor mounts, tranny mounts, integration into the electronics, fitment, heater and (possible a/c fitment issues, etc)

Doing a conversion is a labor of love, you learn how everything works, but it costs a lot of time and money.
10-04-2012 01:40 PM
2five22 Here in the U.S., the EPA is getting far more stringent about Diesel engines and few companies are willing to put up with meeting the regulatory standards. I am still surprised BMW did in their 3 series for the U.S. market.

Diesel is effectively dying off in U.S. passenger vehicles and the air quality regulations only get tougher, never easier.

For $18,500 USD, a Jeeper could buy several 3.6L crate motors, drive the heck out of them, and replace the existing engine with a new one every 5-6 years. It would meet EPA standards, be road worthy and legal in every State, and could be sold to another buyer without a problem.

I remain unconvinced that this conversion will ever realize a penny in actual savings, based on the total costs of acquisition, maintenance, and repair. The engine may very well last 500,000 miles before a rebuild, but what about the rest of the Jeep? The costs of repairing and replacing the remaining Jeep parts over the years must be factored in as well.
10-04-2012 01:39 PM
Summertime Boss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep_88 View Post
Researched it a lot, with a cost analysis up here in Canada with the amount of money it costs (I was quoted 18,500USD), you could definitely make the money back in the long term and have a sweet drivetrain but...

1. How do you insure it? you could just not tell your insurance company and avoid the registration issues that go along with it but then do you really want 18.5k uninsured if it's stolen or someone runs into you?

2. What if they pull you over and you get a vehicle inspection? you won't be able to register it.

3. From what I found the 3.9BT doesn't have glowplugs so you'll have to figure that out.

4. If you take the cost of the conversion plus the headaches why not just get one with the pentastar... or wait until your drivetrain is worn out (around 180,000mi) or more if you take care of it then worry about it then, by that time my Jeep will be 10-15years old and I will make it into a project vehicle and try to drop in whatever newer diesel I can transplant into it that's road legal (there will probably be a lot more diesel choices out there from other manufacturers as they try to meet the EPA regs coming up that you could pick up from a salvage yard).

Just my .02 cents.
Dude. Totally what I needed to hear. I'd been convincing myself to spend the cash and I totally don't need to. You make very good points. Your two cents, in my opinion, are worth much more. Thanks.
10-04-2012 12:37 PM
Jeep_88 Researched it a lot, with a cost analysis up here in Canada with the amount of money it costs (I was quoted 18,500USD), you could definitely make the money back in the long term and have a sweet drivetrain but...

1. How do you insure it? you could just not tell your insurance company and avoid the registration issues that go along with it but then do you really want 18.5k uninsured if it's stolen or someone runs into you?

2. What if they pull you over and you get a vehicle inspection? you won't be able to register it.

3. From what I found the 3.9BT doesn't have glowplugs so you'll have to figure that out.

4. If you take the cost of the conversion plus the headaches why not just get one with the pentastar... or wait until your drivetrain is worn out (around 180,000mi) or more if you take care of it then worry about it then, by that time my Jeep will be 10-15years old and I will make it into a project vehicle and try to drop in whatever newer diesel I can transplant into it that's road legal (there will probably be a lot more diesel choices out there from other manufacturers as they try to meet the EPA regs coming up that you could pick up from a salvage yard).

Just my .02 cents.
10-03-2012 01:25 PM
Summertime Boss Interesting points. Who is it that does this conversion then? They seem to be a thriving business. What is the upside?
10-03-2012 01:18 PM
2five22 Having just looked at the website, it states "off-road only usage".

Unless you are independently wealthy or just won the Powerball lottery and love mechanical toys, it is a very expensive luxury item.
10-03-2012 01:11 PM
2five22 You would have to drive a LOT of miles to amortize 30,000 dollars in an engine swap before you'd ever see one penny's worth of fuel savings. Keep in mind that Diesel engines require [not just suggest] oil changes every few thousand miles and that the fuel is roughly ten percent more, per gallon, in cost than a gallon of gasoline. There are other expenses as well.

Unless you are going to drive your Jeep for many hundreds of thousands of miles, if not a million or more, you will never realize the savings that you are hoping for.

Likewise, I looked at buying a Diesel engine when I bought my F350. It was a $5,000 option then. No matter how I processed the numbers, I couldn't justify the initial expense, the fuel costs, the oil change and maintenance costs [service hour cost for a Diesel tech are much more expensive], and the repair costs [Diesel parts are very spendy] versus the amount of miles I drove annually, even with a toy hauler in tow on a long vacation.
10-03-2012 12:51 PM
Posts On Percocet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summertime Boss View Post
It is not street legal for sure, though the website makes it look like they are on the cusp of getting certified in the next year (maybe). Anyway, I'm pretty sure that I could find a garage to give me a sticker regardless if I went with the mod. Question is...who has done this? The site looks legit, but nobody seems to actually know someone that has had the conversion done.

Cost benefit analysis. It's not worth it. You could buy a car that's good on gas for that type of money and have both. Not to mention the hassle, and you'd destroy the resell value.
10-03-2012 12:46 PM
Summertime Boss It is not street legal for sure, though the website makes it look like they are on the cusp of getting certified in the next year (maybe). Anyway, I'm pretty sure that I could find a garage to give me a sticker regardless if I went with the mod. Question is...who has done this? The site looks legit, but nobody seems to actually know someone that has had the conversion done.
10-03-2012 11:44 AM
bo9roadking I'd like to do a diesel conversion too, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to register my Jeep for street use when it is done.

I've been over the Texas motor vehicle regulations and I can't find a definitive answer. Some counties require emissions testing too and I don't know if I would be able to get an exemption waiver for it.
10-03-2012 08:26 AM
Jackster3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summertime Boss View Post
I've been looking at ways to get more power and fuel economy out of my 2011 JKU and stumbled across the Bruiser Diesel Conversion website. Has anyone done this? It looks like it would be great for folks that rock crawl their Jeeps, but mine is a daily driver (40 mile commute each way). I'd love the fuel economy of a diesel, but I also plan on driving my Jeep for another ten or more years and need it to last. Does anyone have experience with this conversion? How are the handling characteristics on the highway? It is a very expensive modification, is it worth it?
Its anywhere from $18,000-$30,000 at least from what Ive seen.
Id be scared to put that much money into it lol
10-03-2012 08:11 AM
Summertime Boss
Bruiser Diesel Conversion...anybody done it?

I've been looking at ways to get more power and fuel economy out of my 2011 JKU and stumbled across the Bruiser Diesel Conversion website. Has anyone done this? It looks like it would be great for folks that rock crawl their Jeeps, but mine is a daily driver (40 mile commute each way). I'd love the fuel economy of a diesel, but I also plan on driving my Jeep for another ten or more years and need it to last. Does anyone have experience with this conversion? How are the handling characteristics on the highway? It is a very expensive modification, is it worth it?

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