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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-22-2013 10:37 PM
cls152 I know that this is old post however....

Couldn't you have kept the OEM Pillar panel instead of buying Rugged Ridge'd Pillar?

Was interested in doing this mod and just trying to save a couple bucks.
10-07-2012 09:02 PM
mikeym Anytime, good luck with it, its fairly simple to do, just take it a wire at a time and it should go pretty smoothly
10-05-2012 02:38 PM
Jeep757 Thanks Mikeym.

I eventually will be getting an aux light setup and plan to use you guide here. Also plan on getti.g one of those oogah horns (like the original old fashioned ones if possible) and setting it up on this switch panel. Then ill sill have to spares if i decide to setup something else.

Thanks again
10-05-2012 02:13 PM
mikeym Sure, here is the link, no picture on it though. I googled the part number and here is the picture for it as well

HELLA H84988001 4-Way Mini Relay Box Kit : Amazon.com : Automotive

10-05-2012 01:17 PM
Jeep757 Do you have a link for the relay box you found by chance?
10-05-2012 12:08 PM
mikeym
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynskey View Post
The old double pole, single throw mix-up. Glad you had the line fused and seperate from the CANBus system.

Aside for the wiring gauge covered previously, my one recommendation would be to use connectors that have a coating/rubber end to them. It looks like all of the connectors plugged into the relays are just bare metal plugs? I always use ends that have a coating on them due to the minimal distance between the + and - on the relays.

Ohterwise really a good idea and execution.

Yea, this was my first time doing something this indepth, so it was a learning experience all the way through. I had the general idea mapped out in my head, and after a few days of thinking about it decided to pull the trigger. I was really glad I didnt tie into any factory wiring, if I would have, and made the mistake with the relays that I did, Im pretty sure my jeep would have been hurtin. The connectors I used had a plastic coating on them (on the ends) but I am not happy with only the ends having the coating. like you said, it is better to run fully coated connectors, especially if they get wet. I not lookin too good in the bank account, but when I get some extra cash, I found for $30 on amazon, a relay box made by Hella, Im going to order one of those soon, fabricate a bracket and re-wire it all to it. The box is water tight, holds 4 relays, and allows you to connect each terminal on the bottom side. I think it will look a lot cleaner, be safer, and put a nice finishing touch under the hood.

So far, mind you I only have one pair of lights hooked to it now, it has worked flawlessly. I am very pleased with how it looks, and works, and has saved a truck load of money compared to the s-pod. I was lucky to come up with the cash for this job let alone the 400+ for s-pod, but if I had the money, Id buy one of those in a heart beat, I just wish they sold the switch cluster separately. Thanks for your tips! I'll update this as money comes in.
10-04-2012 09:54 PM
silver rubi Sub'd
10-04-2012 12:44 PM
Lynskey The old double pole, single throw mix-up. Glad you had the line fused and seperate from the CANBus system.

Aside for the wiring gauge covered previously, my one recommendation would be to use connectors that have a coating/rubber end to them. It looks like all of the connectors plugged into the relays are just bare metal plugs? I always use ends that have a coating on them due to the minimal distance between the + and - on the relays.

Ohterwise really a good idea and execution.
10-04-2012 11:12 AM
mikeym sorry it took me so long to get back to ya. The relays are just standard 30 amp relays which you can find at any auto parts store. Make sure you run all like style relays though. Most light relays have (2) 87 pins on them, which allows you to run a pair of lamps without having to connect two wires to one. Other style relays (horn relays) only have one 87 pin, which are still useable, but if you get this style, make sure to pay attention to which pin is for ground and which pin is for switch power. They do reverse the schematic from style to style. but in any case, each package has an easy to follow schematic to wire them, just take it one wire at a time.
10-04-2012 07:23 AM
Jeep757 Great write-up. what kinda relays(and from where) were used or should be used for this type of project?
09-22-2012 08:04 PM
mikeym Sorry it has taken me so long to update this....lights work awesome and are unbelievably bright, just have the two on the front right now, but im sure there will be more to come. here are the pics. I have found on Amazon, a relay box, made by hella that I think I will order here soon. It is a box with a sealed lid, with spots for four relays, which i think would finish up everything nicely. I will let ya all know when I do that.



The second relay was the culprit that kept making be blow fuses, which I havent had a chance to replace yet (gotta love work), I went ahead and wire loomed it for now...but hopefully soon, i'll get the relay box so I wont have to worry about it. Its clean, but not clean enough for my standards

Now the KC light bar was made to have the lights mounted on the top, Ive never really been a fan of this unless its to make room for a winch or other lighting so I decided to modify it to make them mount under. Of course the mounts wouldnt work, so I had two old snap on sockets that worked perfectly, had to get longer mounting bolts, but end result gave me the spacer I needed and they dont vibrate going down the road.

09-19-2012 12:11 PM
DD293G Looks Good
09-19-2012 10:48 AM
mikeym well heres another update. Had an issue the other night when the lights came in. I hooked up the wires and blew a fuse.....I wasnt happy, after scratching my head for a bit, I decided to call it a night and re-visit with a fresh mind. I thought about it all day at work, and then it finally hit me. I made an ignorant mistake. When I bought the relays, one was an od-ball, with only having one outlet for the "87" prong rather than two on typical light relays. When they only have one prong, the 86 turns to ground and the 85 spot turns to switch power....where as the typical relays (sorry I dont the correct term for the different kinds) have 85 as ground and 86 as switch power. Yup had the od-ball wired into the other ones making the system back feed. now luckily I had two things on my side....A---I didnt tap into ANY factory wiring, so when something like this happened, I wouldnt risk frying something. And B---plenty of fuses.....Lesson of the day....Beer and vehicle wiring do not make a good mix.

On a different note. What I ordered for the Jeep turned out pretty nice. I got the KC Highlight's bumper bar, pretty much just a small light bar for the bumper. And a set of KC Highlights Driving lights (super bright). The bumper bar I was a little disappointed in, the directions were straight forward, one of the bolts on either side was too long so I had to double up on the lock washers, and also used lock tite as a safe measure. Another thing I didnt like, and I knew this when I ordered it, was the bar is meant for lights to be mounted on top. I never have personally liked this look unless there are more than just a set of lights. Of course the lights wouldnt bolt up under the bar...so I had to get crafty and make a "spacer" to allow the lights to be mounted the way I wanted. Solution? Two old snap on sockets. both were large enough to make it actually look pretty nice, and gives the lights a good solid footing so they wont vibrate. Everything turned out looking nice and clean. When I get off of work, I take and post pictures.
09-19-2012 10:37 AM
mikeym
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkos View Post
Nice job, couple of things for the future:
1) When creating your wiring harness, easiest way to do it is to put the end of the long wire and 1 of your short wires into the first quick connect (Crimp and seal). Take the end of that first short wire add the end of the next short wire and put both into the second quick connect (can keep going for as many quick connects as you need). That way you don't have miles of electrical tape to come unwrapped where you can't see it.
2) I personally don't like a-pillar switches, so if you want an alternative: Daystar Panel on Amazon

Oh, ... and the difference between the spod video and you, ... you have a clutch. The video utilizes the clutch hole (on an auto) to feed the wire. Yours is occupied by your clutch.
Thanks! I thought about making the harness that way, but decided to go the way I did simply because of the way the wiring needed to be behind the switch pod. By going off of the end of the main wire, I thought that it would make the wire bend in and create a possibility of a short (If the tape came un done) So by doing 90 degree joints, it would keep the wires standing up (hopefully)

I wasnt keen on the a-pillar switch pod either, but for a manual trans, it was either that or the s-pod, the daystar switches wouldnt work too great with a stick shift because there isnt much more than 3/4 of an inch between the shifter boot and the lower dash panel
09-19-2012 10:33 AM
mikeym
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBrito View Post
Well, you should be okay depending on how long the wire run is and because you are using only 2 lights most of the time. Let me give you my thought process on that when I made a suggestion to go with the 6AWG and you can decide from there.

I made some assumptions:
1. You will use 100W lights, x 4
2. You will run about 8ft of wire (2.5 meters) for each (this is from battery to light, so it includes the run of 12AWG, which we will ignore for simplification purposes, and I'm also assuming that the ground wire is small in length, which should also be technically included)
3. You want to try to minimize voltage drop to 2% on a 13.5V system (assume the alternator is running). That puts you down to 13.2V, which is a good voltage for your lights to run at optimal light output. Reference: Daniel Sterns had a small blurb on how a typical light puts out lumens at given voltages here: Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply under "Why Use Relays" -- sort of taking this info off topic, but still relevant. I choose 13.2 because it is below the rated max of 14, but a little above the 12.8V nominal, so a little brighter. But, you can choose 12.8V as the target voltage. Hence why I'm breaking this down so you can choose accordingly.

Tool used to determine wire size: DC Cable Sizing Tool - Wire Size Calculator - MM2 & AWG - solar-wind.co.uk (this one is pretty easy to use, plug in voltage, amps, and % drop you want, and cable length).

So, if you plug in 13.5V (alternator runs at around 14.2V, assume some drops to vehicle for charging and accessories. You set the drop to 2%, and you put in 31Amps of current [Note: 100W/13.5V * 4 = 30Amp, + 1 amp for margin = 31A] -- this will be your max, when using 4 lights.

The result is a suggestion to use a 6AWG wire.

However... change that voltage drop to 5% allowable, and you get a suggestion for 10AWG. That's at nominal 12.8V, which is good, but in my opinion, ideal, and may result in dimmer lights if other things are going on like headlights, high beams, or inside accessories, charging items inside, etc. Also, not the whole run is 10AWG, since you're going 12AWG after the fuse, and there are a few losses there. But, it looks like 10 AWG is good, 8 AWG would be better, and 6 AWG would be best.

If you have spare time, you can calculate the run from the battery to fuse with actual wire length, then fuse to lights and through relay and all with the 12AWG wire length. But, not sure the exercise is worth the time. The 10/8/6 basically breaks it down pretty well to good/better/best, unless I'm way off on the wire lengths used.

If you don't have a place where you can buy the wire by the foot, it may not even be worth it to change anything at this point, cause spools of this stuff can cost a pretty penny. But, if you run across a piece of 8 or 6, I'd swap it for max light output

Dude... nerd talk.... sorry, I didn't realize this would turn into a geek post!
Wow that is alot of equations hahaa! Thank you! I knew there was a way to calculate voltage drop but didnt realize just how much we were talking here. After I read this, I went to walmart, advanced auto and then to auto zone with no luck, but I will definitely be changing that main power feed once I get my hands on some 6 gauge wiring. Thanks again!
09-18-2012 06:06 PM
Arkos Nice job, couple of things for the future:
1) When creating your wiring harness, easiest way to do it is to put the end of the long wire and 1 of your short wires into the first quick connect (Crimp and seal). Take the end of that first short wire add the end of the next short wire and put both into the second quick connect (can keep going for as many quick connects as you need). That way you don't have miles of electrical tape to come unwrapped where you can't see it.
2) I personally don't like a-pillar switches, so if you want an alternative: Daystar Panel on Amazon

Oh, ... and the difference between the spod video and you, ... you have a clutch. The video utilizes the clutch hole (on an auto) to feed the wire. Yours is occupied by your clutch.
09-18-2012 02:11 PM
LBrito
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeym View Post
Sorry forgot to mention the main power to the fuse block, and maybe Im running too small here. Main power from battery to fuse block is 10 Gauge, which is fused with a 30 amp fuse. My thoughts here are this....I know the 10 gauge may not seem like much, but I will not be running a winch off of this or any thing like that, just lights, and the probability of running all four switches at the same time would be slim to none. As it sits now, I would only have the KC lights on the bumper running, then later I may buy a-pillar lights. The 10 gauge could easily run 4 lights, however, Im thinking, if I run more than four, I may need to upgrade that main wire to something like an 8 gauge or even a 6 depending on my amp draw.....thoughts?

Well, you should be okay depending on how long the wire run is and because you are using only 2 lights most of the time. Let me give you my thought process on that when I made a suggestion to go with the 6AWG and you can decide from there.

I made some assumptions:
1. You will use 100W lights, x 4
2. You will run about 8ft of wire (2.5 meters) for each (this is from battery to light, so it includes the run of 12AWG, which we will ignore for simplification purposes, and I'm also assuming that the ground wire is small in length, which should also be technically included)
3. You want to try to minimize voltage drop to 2% on a 13.5V system (assume the alternator is running). That puts you down to 13.2V, which is a good voltage for your lights to run at optimal light output. Reference: Daniel Sterns had a small blurb on how a typical light puts out lumens at given voltages here: Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply under "Why Use Relays" -- sort of taking this info off topic, but still relevant. I choose 13.2 because it is below the rated max of 14, but a little above the 12.8V nominal, so a little brighter. But, you can choose 12.8V as the target voltage. Hence why I'm breaking this down so you can choose accordingly.

Tool used to determine wire size: DC Cable Sizing Tool - Wire Size Calculator - MM2 & AWG - solar-wind.co.uk (this one is pretty easy to use, plug in voltage, amps, and % drop you want, and cable length).

So, if you plug in 13.5V (alternator runs at around 14.2V, assume some drops to vehicle for charging and accessories. You set the drop to 2%, and you put in 31Amps of current [Note: 100W/13.5V * 4 = 30Amp, + 1 amp for margin = 31A] -- this will be your max, when using 4 lights.

The result is a suggestion to use a 6AWG wire.

However... change that voltage drop to 5% allowable, and you get a suggestion for 10AWG. That's at nominal 12.8V, which is good, but in my opinion, ideal, and may result in dimmer lights if other things are going on like headlights, high beams, or inside accessories, charging items inside, etc. Also, not the whole run is 10AWG, since you're going 12AWG after the fuse, and there are a few losses there. But, it looks like 10 AWG is good, 8 AWG would be better, and 6 AWG would be best.

If you have spare time, you can calculate the run from the battery to fuse with actual wire length, then fuse to lights and through relay and all with the 12AWG wire length. But, not sure the exercise is worth the time. The 10/8/6 basically breaks it down pretty well to good/better/best, unless I'm way off on the wire lengths used.

If you don't have a place where you can buy the wire by the foot, it may not even be worth it to change anything at this point, cause spools of this stuff can cost a pretty penny. But, if you run across a piece of 8 or 6, I'd swap it for max light output

Dude... nerd talk.... sorry, I didn't realize this would turn into a geek post!
09-17-2012 09:47 AM
mikeym Thank you for the compliments and feedback everyone, I really appreciate it. This is the first time doing something like this, and I am very happy with how it all turned out so far!
09-17-2012 09:46 AM
mikeym Sorry forgot to mention the main power to the fuse block, and maybe Im running too small here. Main power from battery to fuse block is 10 Gauge, which is fused with a 30 amp fuse. My thoughts here are this....I know the 10 gauge may not seem like much, but I will not be running a winch off of this or any thing like that, just lights, and the probability of running all four switches at the same time would be slim to none. As it sits now, I would only have the KC lights on the bumper running, then later I may buy a-pillar lights. The 10 gauge could easily run 4 lights, however, Im thinking, if I run more than four, I may need to upgrade that main wire to something like an 8 gauge or even a 6 depending on my amp draw.....thoughts?
09-17-2012 09:41 AM
mikeym
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBrito View Post
Nice work! Looks clean and well done.
I want to provide some feedback on an otherwise very well done job. Please don't think I'm being a troll or otherwise negative, just some honest feedback as I've been thinking of tackling a project like this soon.

I would suggest revisiting how large a wire you use for your relay trigger switches. 12 awg wire for the inside switches is a little too much, that can carry some good current, and the typical switching current of an automotive relay is about 30 milliamps. If you add 20mA for a LED indicator, you're running about 50mA on that wire (some cheaper relays draw up to 200mA). You can use a 16awg wire and have PLENTY of redundancy still (20 awg is even fine, 18 is good, 16 is more than needed with good padding). Saves space, money, and reduces risk of fire if each switch trigger wire is not fused. Best part is, you can buy multiconductor wire that comes bundled in decent sheathing to protect it.

Also, its not clear if for your main power, you ran 1 10awg wire to the bussman fuse box, then multiple 10 awg wires to the relays, or if you ran multiple 10awg wires to the bussman fuse box, then multiple to the relays? If you only ran 1 10awg wire and are splitting it to multiple via the fuse box, you'll need to upgrade that wire. It will get hot and drop too much voltage if you are using it with lights that may be in the 100W range. If the bussman has a single power input to a power bus bar, I would recommend going with a 6awg wire to that.

Anyway, great job. I know how much time it can take to get wiring all nice and neat and routed clean!
Hey no problem, I appreciate the feed back. Only reason I ran the wire I did, was cause thats all I had. by the time I realized my wiring was over kill the jeep was torn apart and the auto parts store was closed. I had some trailer wiring laying around but I didnt have enough to run the same color all the way through. I figured it wouldnt hurt having bigger than needed wire...Id rather have too much wire than too little and like you said burn up.

I was waiting for someone to notice the power supply to the relays. Sorry bout that, I forgot to mention it. Each relay will have a 12 gauge wire, which will hook into its own spot on the fuse panel. The one wire you see already wired to the fuse panel is for the power side of the switches. I made a harness to power the led indicators on each light and tied them into one fuse spot. I figured with being LED, they wouldnt draw enough to require their own fuses. Hopefully tonight I can run the remainder of the wires, and post more pictures
09-17-2012 09:36 AM
mikeym
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Kolector View Post
Pretty cool set up, I don't know that I would want those relay connections open like that, have you thought about a cover for it? I plan on getting the sPod, been saving up for it, but for someone who doesn't want to spend that much, this is definitely a great alternative. Good Job, I like that you included the write up as well.

I have been thinking about a cover for the relays....your a step ahead of me, I dont want them to possibly get wet, although I dont wheel my jeep (yet) cause the new-ness hasnt worn off yet haha! I have been thinking of maybe using a rubbermaid container, I know doesnt sound the best, but with some krylon fusion paint (black) and some strategically places holes for the wires to pass thru, I think it may work. That will definitely be coming soon
09-17-2012 06:46 AM
RB-10rubicon Very nice wire managment looks thought out and professional
09-17-2012 02:30 AM
LBrito Nice work! Looks clean and well done.
I want to provide some feedback on an otherwise very well done job. Please don't think I'm being a troll or otherwise negative, just some honest feedback as I've been thinking of tackling a project like this soon.

I would suggest revisiting how large a wire you use for your relay trigger switches. 12 awg wire for the inside switches is a little too much, that can carry some good current, and the typical switching current of an automotive relay is about 30 milliamps. If you add 20mA for a LED indicator, you're running about 50mA on that wire (some cheaper relays draw up to 200mA). You can use a 16awg wire and have PLENTY of redundancy still (20 awg is even fine, 18 is good, 16 is more than needed with good padding). Saves space, money, and reduces risk of fire if each switch trigger wire is not fused. Best part is, you can buy multiconductor wire that comes bundled in decent sheathing to protect it.

Also, its not clear if for your main power, you ran 1 10awg wire to the bussman fuse box, then multiple 10 awg wires to the relays, or if you ran multiple 10awg wires to the bussman fuse box, then multiple to the relays? If you only ran 1 10awg wire and are splitting it to multiple via the fuse box, you'll need to upgrade that wire. It will get hot and drop too much voltage if you are using it with lights that may be in the 100W range. If the bussman has a single power input to a power bus bar, I would recommend going with a 6awg wire to that.

Anyway, great job. I know how much time it can take to get wiring all nice and neat and routed clean!
09-17-2012 02:06 AM
the Kolector Pretty cool set up, I don't know that I would want those relay connections open like that, have you thought about a cover for it? I plan on getting the sPod, been saving up for it, but for someone who doesn't want to spend that much, this is definitely a great alternative. Good Job, I like that you included the write up as well.
09-17-2012 12:23 AM
The General Pretty much the exact project I have been meaning to tackle, just haven't had the time. Great write up! Hope it all works
09-17-2012 12:21 AM
mikeym No problem, thanks guys, Im always looking for a way to save money. Once it is all completed, the wires will be covered with wire loom and should look close to factory....hopefully
09-17-2012 12:18 AM
jeepingchester WOW! Nicely done. Thanks for taking the time on the write up too. Love some of the ingenuity on this site..
09-17-2012 12:13 AM
Dew sweet! that is a clean setup, how much did it run you in parts?

edit: oops read over the part where you said $100
09-17-2012 12:06 AM
mikeym
Made my own S-pod style switch set up

Hey all, thought I would pass this along to you all, gonna have a ton of pics. I got to looking at the S-pod stuff, and then got to looking at my dads new Ford F350, he has factory upfitter switches where he can easily connect a power wire to a fuse location without having to wire it all. So I decided to do the same to my JK, I ordered a Rugged Ridge A-pillar switch pod. I didnt like the huge Daystar Switches that come on it so I ordered it bare, with no switches and bought my own switches at the local radio shack store. All in all, I think I have bout $100 bucks in this project. My over all goal was to have pre-wired relays, on their own fuse block where I wouldnt have to take apart the interior for each additional light or accessory I decide to buy. So here it goes, If you have any suggestions on how I could have done it differently please share, I want to share this so others can hopefully do the same to their jeep....Would I rather buy a S-pod? Sure! Do I have the money for it? Ha, no, DIY, saves money.

Here is the switch panel after I put in the switches, I chose to run a lit rocker so I could tell when the accessory was on. $3.99 ea. at Radio Shack 16 Amps each.


First I tackled the grounds. I used a 12 gauge wire, and soldered on 4 "branches" off of the main ground feed wire to connect into each switch.


Here is a picture of the install ground harness (after I electrical taped each union)



Now under the hood, I mounted 3 relays (got lights coming in tomorrow with another relay in the kit, so I decided to just wait for that one to come in rather than wasting 5 bucks on one. Tomorrow when it comes in, all the wires will already be there and ready to hook up. on the driver side, next to the master cylinder there is a black plastic shield of some sort, I think its just a fascia to make it all look nice. but in any case here is where I decided to mount the relays, they easily clear the hood and are very easy to access. I also made another ground harness to hook all the relays together (ground only in series). just behind this plastic piece is a common ground from the factory, this is where both the ground for the a pillar and relays hook into (you can see the red nut head )



Now here is where I cringed, I had to drill a hole in the fire wall just behind the carpet and just to the left of the clutch pedal. I had rubber grommets to put in the hole to protect the wires and sprayed the bare metal area with etch primer to prevent rust. I watched an S-pod install video and where they ran the wire harness wouldnt work on mine....I dont know how they did it, but I couldnt figure it out....oh well, my method is water tight and doesnt look bad at all


As I routed each wire, I marked it with tape on interior end, and hooked up to appropriate location on relay. In this picture these wires are individually ran to #86 on the relay (to switch) I just kinda guess-stimated how much wire to leave there. The wire used here is 12 gauge


Here is a picture of each of those wires hooked to the relays under the hood. It was a little bit of a pain routing all of the wires, I ended up bending a hook at the end of a stretched out coat hanger. Made it go a lot faster and easier. (again the last wire in pic will be hooked to a relay tomorrow, in the mean time, no fuses are installed




This picture here you can barely see at the top where I mounted the aux. fuse block. It is a bussman, with (6) 30 amp fuse spots. Ive had it for years, I cant remember where i got it but im sure they are at the auto parts store. I just used self tapping screws and screwed it thru the fire wall. By doing this, I have only one power wire off of the battery (10 gauge) which is fused by the way, I like more fuses than needed just in case


I then made another harness for the power side of the switches. Just like the ground, I made one with 12 gauge wire, with 4 branches coming off to plug into each switch. This is only to power the light on each switch and carries very little load since each switch has an led indicator. (this picture I had them plugged into the wrong connector, should have been plugged into far right spade


I forgot to take a couple pics along the way, but nothing important. After this I put connectors on each wire that was coming out of the dash and connected them to the appropriate switch. I made sure that the relays matched the switch it was connected to (top switch, went to first in line relay and so on.,makes it easier to know which is which)

Put it all back together in the interior and heres what I got


Those are all I have so far. I have on order a KC highlights bumper bar with 6 inch KC lights. They are due to be in tomorrow, so when they come in I will run a wire to a relay and see how it goes. Over all it wasnt too bad of a project, just had to take it one step at a time and refrain from drinking too much beer. I'll take more pictures as I get more done!

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