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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-03-2008 08:30 PM
2much
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
I’m actually glad that this shadow economy is now a front page issue, and I do hold out hope. If we could endure a hyperinflation, kill off the dollar and issue a new currency I would actually be more optimistic about having kids. There is a possibility that all fiat currencies will suffer the same fate at the same time, we will clear the monopoly board, and start a new game somehow—sort of a unified international bankruptcy.
Honestly, that scares me.
We we all have a unified international currency?
And if so, where do you think I should get my bar code tatooed?
That seems almost an end-game scenario...
12-03-2008 08:24 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Possibly the most frustrating part is that, yes we are getting screwed, but the average person on the street doesn't even have a fundamental understanding about how and by whom. And all the while more debt is assigned to us as a result of the stupidity and flat out piracy of the financial industry and an anesthetized public that can't be bothered to understand because they might miss the next sale at Walmart.

If you think I just like to rattle my cage about this consider that I was concerned enough about what is happening now that more than eight years ago I began building positions in precious metals. I've also decided to not have kids largely because I truly believe there is no way to avoid what is coming, and I have little option than to ride it out along with the morons I'm in the boat with.

What probably sounds paranoid, but that I witnessed it, is that the groundwork for this financial mess was set in academia long before the situation we have today developed. Powerful people with a globalist agenda gutted the college textbook industry and changed the curriculum of the economics departments long in advance so the prevailing wisdom would be that debt was a nonissue in a national economy. Now we put those theories to a real test.
Holy ship dip batman. I think I've had you misunderstood this whole time.
I may owe you an apology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
I’m actually glad that this shadow economy is now a front page issue, and I do hold out hope. If we could endure a hyperinflation, kill off the dollar and issue a new currency I would actually be more optimistic about having kids. There is a possibility that all fiat currencies will suffer the same fate at the same time, we will clear the monopoly board, and start a new game somehow—sort of a unified international bankruptcy.
Do you favor this "new currency" being an international currency?
12-03-2008 09:02 AM
jupiterboy Nope, these bailouts are going to kick the can down the road. Problem comes if other countries stop buying our bonds.

Getting older is odd. Friends change, but yes, there is at least one friend. And, we are godparents as well. Try asking a good friend to be an executor or godparent though. You will find out very quickly how sobering it is for everyone involved. Watch your friends parent as you will hit the age were everyone starts breeding. They don't all do such a bangup job. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
12-03-2008 08:54 AM
yjwrangler as i don't see it getting that bad yet i guess all things are possible and all empires do eventually fall, and our country isn't the only one on the verge of a financial melt down, it seems to be happening everywhere! starting over is somewhat impossible if you asked me, it would be very hard and alot of people would lose more than they have now. it seems to complicated. and as far as you having a kid...don't you have close friends that could be god parents or something?
12-03-2008 07:59 AM
jupiterboy Note that during the collapse of the Soviet Union the number one occupation for a young woman was prostitute. The young men fared less well. I think we are just getting started on the decline. I have not made these decisions lightly, as having a kid IMO is one of the coolest experiences open to a human. I do honestly fear a level of civil unrest and dislocation that would make it impossible for me to protect and provide for a child. The consequence of my decision is to face aging in a hostile environment with no support. Consider also that I have Zero reliable family and that if something happened to me and my wife there would be no trusted relative or anyone else to take the kids.

I’m actually glad that this shadow economy is now a front page issue, and I do hold out hope. If we could endure a hyperinflation, kill off the dollar and issue a new currency I would actually be more optimistic about having kids. There is a possibility that all fiat currencies will suffer the same fate at the same time, we will clear the monopoly board, and start a new game somehow—sort of a unified international bankruptcy.
12-03-2008 07:45 AM
yjwrangler ^ well i usually like your post and how you do raise a good point/argument, and i never ever thought of you as radical until you just gave the reason for not having kids! haahah, so i completely agree with you and i wish i would have invested all the money i have made between high school and me going into college... but i didn't i think i still spend like i always did and around here the only thing that has changed is any job that is directly linked to the rest of the country is suffering, business around here is booming and everything looks good! you see I am one of those morons walking around the street clueless as to who to blame, i am not offended, i am learning so i guess i don't feel bad. but anyway greed is at the heart of all these problems and it seems as though the ones largely responsible for this are the ones who will pay nothing, from what i understand!
12-03-2008 06:04 AM
jupiterboy ^ this is the truth. It is totally demotivational. I’ve lived low and saved for my entire life. The house I recently sold was purchased for less than many people pay for a car. Our only hope of retirement is investing. I would say conservatively, in the last 12 months we've lost around $70,000—part in the market and part profit on our house we walked away from because foreclosures drove our comps down.

Possibly the most frustrating part is that, yes we are getting screwed, but the average person on the street doesn't even have a fundamental understanding about how and by whom. And all the while more debt is assigned to us as a result of the stupidity and flat out piracy of the financial industry and an anesthetized public that can't be bothered to understand because they might miss the next sale at Walmart.

If you think I just like to rattle my cage about this consider that I was concerned enough about what is happening now that more than eight years ago I began building positions in precious metals. I've also decided to not have kids largely because I truly believe there is no way to avoid what is coming, and I have little option than to ride it out along with the morons I'm in the boat with.

What probably sounds paranoid, but that I witnessed it, is that the groundwork for this financial mess was set in academia long before the situation we have today developed. Powerful people with a globalist agenda gutted the college textbook industry and changed the curriculum of the economics departments long in advance so the prevailing wisdom would be that debt was a nonissue in a national economy. Now we put those theories to a real test.
12-02-2008 11:57 PM
Joe Dirt I think the guys who took out those adjustible low interest loans with balloon payments in 5 years are the smartest people ever. I wish I had the insight they had. I took all the equity from my first house, put it as a down on my new home and got a fixed 30 year loan at 6%. Now all of my equity is gone.

The other guys paid a mortgage of 1/2 what I paid for 5 yrs, now Uncle Sam tells the bank to readjust their mortgage to the current market value of the home (1/2 off) with a fixed 30 yr 6% loan. WHO GOT SCREWED....? Those of us who did it the right way in the first place. It's funny how the guys who play by the rules lose and the guys who don't get bailed out. It seems the business world is no different.
12-02-2008 10:16 PM
skeeter
Quote:
Originally Posted by yjwrangler View Post
holy shit!!!!!!!!!!! i first thought that was it. but i then thought that was to criminal and surely wasn't the case and that it was just too simple an explanation. i thought it was tied into the economy somehow, but if its just purly for profit then i hope the banks big wigs rot in the same money hell as the oil industries do, that makes me so mad!!!
Oh my gawd!!!, a business trying to make a profit!!!! oh teh horror!!!
12-02-2008 01:52 PM
jupiterboy Well the people that took these loans were not the sharpest. The basic terms of a loan should be very clear. The real problem is that the banks were allowed to gamble and inflate the risk exponentially beyond the actual loan values. If it were just the loans we would be fine.

If you borrowed 50 million to gamble on a football game and your team lost, you really couldn't blame your team. Problem with this analogy is that the goon squad is now coming after you and me to pay up, and this may actually be the least painful way to take care of it. I would LOVE to see some perp walks though.
12-02-2008 01:32 PM
yjwrangler
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Profit. A low initial rate makes the loan appear affordable because the monthly payment is low. Most people foolishly work on a month-to-month basis and get more house than they can afford because they can initially afford the payment.

The bank looks at the interest they make over the life of the loan. If that interest rate increases, they make more money, and by being able to adjust the rate, they imagined they would make a profit on top of whatever inflation rate was. Somehow no one in the financial industry could imagine that anyone would ever default on a loan. I'm truly amazed by that.
holy shit!!!!!!!!!!! i first thought that was it. but i then thought that was to criminal and surely wasn't the case and that it was just too simple an explanation. i thought it was tied into the economy somehow, but if its just purly for profit then i hope the banks big wigs rot in the same money hell as the oil industries do, that makes me so mad!!!
12-02-2008 09:54 AM
jupiterboy Now imagine taking thousands of these loans, and packaging them as an investment. A hedge fund buys this product, with its anticipated secure profit, and uses that as collateral to purchase O&G futures. Now the bank purchases a small policy on the bundle of loans they sold that says they will get payed IF the loans default, but they no longer hold or service the loans. Now imagine that so many of these little policies are purchased that it inflates the economy exponentially beyond any real value of products or services to the tune of 62 trillion dollars. This is where we sit at the moment.
12-02-2008 09:46 AM
txjustin
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Profit. A low initial rate makes the loan appear affordable because the monthly payment is low. Most people foolishly work on a month-to-month basis and get more house than they can afford because they can initially afford the payment.

The bank looks at the interest they make over the life of the loan. If that interest rate increases, they make more money, and by being able to adjust the rate, they imagined they would make a profit on top of whatever inflation rate was. Somehow no one in the financial industry could imagine that anyone would ever default on a loan. I'm truly amazed by that.
That is a very good point jupiter. I was a Finance major and without any real life experience it is easy to see what they did was just plain dumb! It became nothing more than profit! The rich get richer...
12-02-2008 09:00 AM
jupiterboy Profit. A low initial rate makes the loan appear affordable because the monthly payment is low. Most people foolishly work on a month-to-month basis and get more house than they can afford because they can initially afford the payment.

The bank looks at the interest they make over the life of the loan. If that interest rate increases, they make more money, and by being able to adjust the rate, they imagined they would make a profit on top of whatever inflation rate was. Somehow no one in the financial industry could imagine that anyone would ever default on a loan. I'm truly amazed by that.
12-02-2008 08:22 AM
yjwrangler i have a question for you, can you explain to me why interest rates are raised after set low initially when you take a loan out (unless its fixed) i don't understand why that is done?
12-02-2008 08:07 AM
jupiterboy
Banks forced to make bad loans…

I know, we were just getting past all the political crap. Unfortunately the economic crap is still flowing. Here's a read for anyone that feels the banks were forced to make bad loans.

Verizon Small Business Center

It is basically a short accounting of the banking lobby shutting down any voices of decent or criticism and ripping the teeth out of any legislation that would have limited their ability to screw themselves, and by themselves I mean us.

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