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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-15-2012 04:50 PM
jeepwayoflife I thought it was fixed too! Today he went to start it and nothing. Just a click. He hit the starter with a hammer a little and got it going. Its back to where it was yesterday :/
10-15-2012 04:48 PM
kbwwolf [QUOTE=jeepwayoflife;2892596]Wow never though of that... It would kind of make sense actually. It will start 3 times in a row no problem, but on the 4th it might make the noise. The bellhousing was full of mud as many thought but after washing it out, it didn't help any. I assume the flywheel is undamaged because once it runs for a little, the sound goes away, so its probably the gear like you say. Before we washed it out, the starter would smoke at 3,000 rpm and up. Now that most of the mud seems to be gone there's no more smoke. /QUOTE]

I thought it was fixed.

Been kinda going about my business, all day, with the thought that you guys were good to go. What a kick in the golf balls.
10-15-2012 04:32 PM
jeepwayoflife
Quote:
Originally Posted by americonium
From your description of the problem, I thought you may have busted a tooth on the flywheel, but further consideration, and more descriptions has me thinking that the starter worm gear is sticky. I would pull out the starter, disassemble the gear, clean out all of the grit, and lube it up. Chilton's is your friend on this one. That's my take on things.
Wow never though of that... It would kind of make sense actually. It will start 3 times in a row no problem, but on the 4th it might make the noise. The bellhousing was full of mud as many thought but after washing it out, it didn't help any. I assume the flywheel is undamaged because once it runs for a little, the sound goes away, so its probably the gear like you say. Before we washed it out, the starter would smoke at 3,000 rpm and up. Now that most of the mud seems to be gone there's no more smoke.


Here's a video of the sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-8...e_gdata_player
10-15-2012 04:18 PM
americonium From your description of the problem, I thought you may have busted a tooth on the flywheel, but further consideration, and more descriptions has me thinking that the starter worm gear is sticky. I would pull out the starter, disassemble the gear, clean out all of the grit, and lube it up. Chilton's is your friend on this one. That's my take on things.
10-15-2012 04:06 PM
SilverSport And Jeep says not to ford water deeper than 19"? I could see a dealer denying coverage based on that.
10-15-2012 04:04 PM
Blastek if you think you can afford to drive a brand new vehicle in water like that, then you should be prepared to absorb all the costs.
10-15-2012 02:06 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
In theory, yes, the starter would be covered under warranty. But if the starter and bell housing were full of mud a dealer could deny warranty coverage.
Key point. Some of em look for ways to get outta coverage. My local dealership is actually tolerant, but I'm not sure how well they'd take to a bell housing packed with mud.

And rightly so...
10-15-2012 02:01 PM
SilverSport In theory, yes, the starter would be covered under warranty. But if the starter and bell housing were full of mud a dealer could deny warranty coverage.
10-15-2012 09:10 AM
COStrider Would that starter be covered under warranty? I've been in deep water many times with just about all wrangler models (except the JK) and never had an issue like that!
10-15-2012 08:04 AM
SilverSport IMO go ahead and replace the starter. If it got crap inside causing it to hang up, it won't get better.
10-15-2012 07:05 AM
jeepwayoflife Thanks everyone. Looks like it was the starter. We washed out the bellhousing and starter and gave the starter some good whacks with a hammer is its starting just about every time now. Its still having trouble disengaging the starter once the engine is running, it stays for probably 30 seconds before finally disconnecting. We will probably wait a day or two and if it still has problems, we will look at replacing it. Great to know the JK Section is as knowledgeable and helpful as the TJ section!
10-14-2012 11:51 PM
SilverSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwayoflife View Post
Yes, the first time the airbox had quite a bit of mud in it, but luckily it ran fine. And its only when its trying to start. If the jeep choses to grab the flywheel and turn the engine over, the noise goes away and it runs with no problems. Other times it never engages the flywheel fully I assume and simply makes the noise until the key is removed. Nothing moves when the noise happens, so I dont think its the belt, but I will check for tightness and anything that could be obstructing it. I will also try to get a video up by tonight.
Pull the starter and also check the bell housing for a buildup of mud.
10-14-2012 08:05 PM
Farnham21 Seems like your friends live on the "yolo" frame of mind.
10-14-2012 08:00 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garyk
Speaking from my YJ experience, it sounds like you got mud and crap in the starter and bell. It would not start while under water cause the starter was shorted from the water. Pull the starter and check it out, you might find it full of mud...clean it and all connections and give it a try..
This is where I'm leaning, too. Don't know if it's fixable, based on the photos, but worth a try.
10-14-2012 07:37 PM
Garyk Speaking from my YJ experience, it sounds like you got mud and crap in the starter and bell. It would not start while under water cause the starter was shorted from the water. Pull the starter and check it out, you might find it full of mud...clean it and all connections and give it a try..
10-14-2012 07:19 PM
3JKs1H1 Separaqte issue, but pull the air filter. If it's soaked or dirty, replace it. If it gets soaked, it'll get starved for air and not want to start.
10-14-2012 06:45 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwayoflife View Post
Will do, I checked engine and transmission oil and those both seemed fine, no foam or obvious contamination, but the transmission breather is up pretty high. I will check diff oils and everything as far as belt slipping and the sound its making tonight and have a video up better explaining whats going on.
If it's any consolation, I don't think it's something that's gonna kill the Jeep. It's a '12, and it's still under warranty, when all is said and done.

Problem is – as I'm sure y'all are aware – if you take it to the dealer with guppies in the breather, they're gonna laugh at you, and stick you for the full ride.

We'll figure something out, though. That's what Jeep forums are for.
10-14-2012 06:39 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwayoflife View Post
Will do, I checked engine and transmission oil and those both seemed fine, no foam or obvious contamination, but the transmission breather is up pretty high. I will check diff oils and everything as far as belt slipping and the sound its making tonight and have a video up better explaining whats going on.
Fitty brings up a good question. Did it sit in the water for awhile? If so, was it running the whole time, or just drinking outta the mudhole? If it was off, you probably got water up the tailpipe. Bummer. Never something you wanna put on your resumé...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 50 Something View Post
However food for thought, never kill the engine, and I mean never! She has had water pouring out of the door seals, but never had any issues.

50 Something
10-14-2012 06:18 PM
50 Something Well, I'm very impressed with my new "2012" as it's my 2nd "Jeep". My last 1 was a "1983" with no carpet or back seat ect... Plain Jane for sure!

At 1st I was a bit reluctant to play hard, but after doing some 4 diamond trails at Bridgeport on 10/22/12 and then sitting out all night in the rain on 10/29/12 and filling up with water she purrs like a kitten.

I even sprayed some water in the cold air intake by mistake while cleaning her up and she didn't have an issue whatsoever! However food for thought, never kill the engine, and I mean never! She has had water pouring out of the door seals, but never had any issues.

50 Something
10-14-2012 05:48 PM
panthermark
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbwwolf View Post
First pic? Oops. Do you know what hydrolock is?
For real....
10-14-2012 05:46 PM
jeepwayoflife
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbwwolf View Post
Also, now that I'm thinking about it, you're gonna need to check the diff fluid in that Jeep. Front and rear. You've got breather tubes in several places, but the ones for the diffs only come up to about wheel-well height. Almost certainly got shit in the differential fluid.

Drain and refill, pronto.
Will do, I checked engine and transmission oil and those both seemed fine, no foam or obvious contamination, but the transmission breather is up pretty high. I will check diff oils and everything as far as belt slipping and the sound its making tonight and have a video up better explaining whats going on.
10-14-2012 05:41 PM
kbwwolf Also, now that I'm thinking about it, you're gonna need to check the diff fluid in that Jeep. Front and rear. You've got breather tubes in several places, but the ones for the diffs only come up to about wheel-well height. Almost certainly got shit in the differential fluid.

Drain and refill, pronto.
10-14-2012 05:37 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeDiem4x4 View Post
serious, that's me in the picture haha
First pic? Oops. Do you know what hydrolock is?
10-14-2012 05:36 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwayoflife View Post
Yes, the first time the airbox had quite a bit of mud in it, but luckily it ran fine. And its only when its trying to start. If the jeep choses to grab the flywheel and turn the engine over, the noise goes away and it runs with no problems. Other times it never engages the flywheel fully I assume and simply makes the noise until the key is removed. Nothing moves when the noise happens, so I dont think its the belt, but I will check for tightness and anything that could be obstructing it. I will also try to get a video up by tonight.
Sorry for the weird Q's...does it sound like a high-pitched whine, metal on metal...what?

I'm still leaning towards a belt (which would be good, considering the first photo you posted).

But I'm also wondering if it's a starter problem. That would account for the on-again/off-again starting. Maybe the teeth that dig into the flywheel aren't retracting like they should?

Kinda guessing, here.

Lay it on me.
10-14-2012 05:34 PM
CarpeDiem4x4 serious, that's me in the picture haha
10-14-2012 05:21 PM
jeepwayoflife
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbwwolf View Post
Questions:

Does the squeaking happen when he presses the gas pedal, or just when it's idling? Does it squeak when driving?

Might it simply be a belt with crap in it? Have y'all looked at belts at all?

Let's start there...that first photo is pretty close to a hydrolock moment, at speed.
Yes, the first time the airbox had quite a bit of mud in it, but luckily it ran fine. And its only when its trying to start. If the jeep choses to grab the flywheel and turn the engine over, the noise goes away and it runs with no problems. Other times it never engages the flywheel fully I assume and simply makes the noise until the key is removed. Nothing moves when the noise happens, so I dont think its the belt, but I will check for tightness and anything that could be obstructing it. I will also try to get a video up by tonight.
10-14-2012 04:53 PM
kbwwolf Questions:

Does the squeaking happen when he presses the gas pedal, or just when it's idling? Does it squeak when driving?

Might it simply be a belt with crap in it? Have y'all looked at belts at all?

Let's start there...that first photo is pretty close to a hydrolock moment, at speed.
10-14-2012 04:50 PM
kbwwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeDiem4x4 View Post
wow, what a badass jeeper
Serious, or facetious?

Not trashing you, just can't tell from your post.

Welcome to WF.
10-14-2012 04:50 PM
SilverSport Hmmm......could water/mud even get into the starter?
10-14-2012 04:28 PM
CarpeDiem4x4 wow, what a badass jeeper
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