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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 07:17 PM
RockyRiverJeep
Chill Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRubi2012 View Post
My head replacement story for the record books:

2012 Rubicon with 2011 engine build date, and I started throwing P00300 and P00304 around 32000 miles with no loss of power or immediate lose of fuel economy. Brought it to the dealership, and they followed standard protocol starting with a reflash first, stating that the reflash prevented any false positive MIL illuminations for misfire. The P00304 code was tripped again about 4 days later, and I brought it back in for a compression/leakdown test. They stated that cylinder 4 had 60% leakdown into the exhaust, and would need the new LH cylinder head. They put me into a rental vehicle (F-150 XLT 4x4), and had the Jeep for 7 days to order the parts and do the repairs. I pushed them hard to replace both heads at the same time, but they would not do it under warranty. I was quoted $1500 if I wanted the RH head replaced the same time as the LH, so I opted not to do it.

When I went back in to pick up the Jeep, I asked to talk to the tech who did the work to find out more about how the compression test turned out for the RH bank, and he said that they didn't test those cylinders because there was no indication they were bad. He stated that they did a realtime diagnostic on all cylinders, and didn't notice any abnormal misfiring from any of the cylinders on the RH bank, so if I wanted them tested I would have to pay for it. He also explained that they received new information from Chrysler that the head itself was not the original problem, but rather that the head gasket for the LH side had cutouts that partially blocked the water jacket going to the head, causing a hot spot and a subsequent premature wearing of the valve seats and guides.

Initial impressions are that the AC head is a bit quieter than the original, but it still pretty loud/chattery. There is a still an audible ticking sound, however, the RH side seems to tick louder than the LH side after the replacement. My mpg's have gone up for mixed driving from 17mpg to 19.5 mpg on the first tank since replacement, and 20.2mpg on my last tank, which is a positive. Throttle response and power seem to be about the same as prior to the repair.

A couple things that irked me which have nothing to do with Chrysler as a whole, but my dealership and the mechanic that did the job. I did my 32,000 mile service this weekend (Oil change, manual trans. fluid, air filter, etc.) and basically all of the fasteners on my lower oil pan were finger loose. The pan was still in place due to the RTV gasket, but I suspect another 4-5K miles would have vibrated many of the fasteners completely out. The hose clamp holding my air boot to the throttle body was not tightened, and hence the boot was just loosely slipped over the throttle body possibly allowing dirty air to seep past. Also, the fasteners holding the throttle body to the intake manifold were in need of tightening, and the corner of my airbox cover was cracked off. The piece of plastic debris was sitting on top of my air filter on the engine side of the filter, so luckily vaccuum didn't suck it into the engine. After finding all of this, my confidence in the repair work was pretty shaken, so I went over every fastener I could access without disassembling anything and just checked everything for tightness.

Additionally, I recieved a letter from Chrysler the other day indicating that they would be extending the warranty on the LH head only to 10 years/ 150K miles, and that 2011-2013 Wranglers were affected. Although I have alot of respect for the way they have handled this, I feel like they should be extending the entire engine warranty, or at the very least both LH and RH side heads. Who is to say that debris released into the engine due to the wear of the valve seats and guides didn't compromise the overall life of other internal components.

My main questions are how many people have had the RH cylinder head replaced, and has anyone else experienced the loose oil pan? I'm pretty sure these fasteners were not loose before, but I have a hard time believing that they would have needed to remove the pan to do the head replacement. The only thing I can think of was that the mechanic dropped something in the engine and needed to flush out the block.
Folks, Chrysler is not going to replace the passenger side head (currently no defects that we know of) when they do a warranty claim on the defective driver's side head. You can have it done, but YOU will pay for the diagnostic, parts and labor for that. Period. They are not going to extend the warranty on the passenger head. Get these ideas out of your head.

As far as the loose bolts, as long as you documented that on a return service interval at the dealership that did the work, you will have a record that you can use later, if necessary. Chances are no damage was done. The service department should've been given the business for the shoddy work, though.

Have the dealership replaced the cracked airbox lid. I hope you reported that immediately when you noticed it.

My 2012 Wrangler had the driver's head replaced last June. It's definitely more quiet, but there is still some very light ticking. I don't worry about it. If you're uncomfortable taking your Jeep there in the future, research other Jeep dealers and their service ratings/commendations.

Lastly, always report any questionable/shoddy work right away and make them add the complaint notes to the service log. You'll have a paper trail. Keep all service receipts and make sure all service is done in accordance with the recommended service schedule/procedures.

Go out and enjoy your Jeep!
07-09-2014 05:40 PM
RedRubi2012 My head replacement story for the record books:

2012 Rubicon with 2011 engine build date, and I started throwing P00300 and P00304 around 32000 miles with no loss of power or immediate lose of fuel economy. Brought it to the dealership, and they followed standard protocol starting with a reflash first, stating that the reflash prevented any false positive MIL illuminations for misfire. The P00304 code was tripped again about 4 days later, and I brought it back in for a compression/leakdown test. They stated that cylinder 4 had 60% leakdown into the exhaust, and would need the new LH cylinder head. They put me into a rental vehicle (F-150 XLT 4x4), and had the Jeep for 7 days to order the parts and do the repairs. I pushed them hard to replace both heads at the same time, but they would not do it under warranty. I was quoted $1500 if I wanted the RH head replaced the same time as the LH, so I opted not to do it.

When I went back in to pick up the Jeep, I asked to talk to the tech who did the work to find out more about how the compression test turned out for the RH bank, and he said that they didn't test those cylinders because there was no indication they were bad. He stated that they did a realtime diagnostic on all cylinders, and didn't notice any abnormal misfiring from any of the cylinders on the RH bank, so if I wanted them tested I would have to pay for it. He also explained that they received new information from Chrysler that the head itself was not the original problem, but rather that the head gasket for the LH side had cutouts that partially blocked the water jacket going to the head, causing a hot spot and a subsequent premature wearing of the valve seats and guides.

Initial impressions are that the AC head is a bit quieter than the original, but it still pretty loud/chattery. There is a still an audible ticking sound, however, the RH side seems to tick louder than the LH side after the replacement. My mpg's have gone up for mixed driving from 17mpg to 19.5 mpg on the first tank since replacement, and 20.2mpg on my last tank, which is a positive. Throttle response and power seem to be about the same as prior to the repair.

A couple things that irked me which have nothing to do with Chrysler as a whole, but my dealership and the mechanic that did the job. I did my 32,000 mile service this weekend (Oil change, manual trans. fluid, air filter, etc.) and basically all of the fasteners on my lower oil pan were finger loose. The pan was still in place due to the RTV gasket, but I suspect another 4-5K miles would have vibrated many of the fasteners completely out. The hose clamp holding my air boot to the throttle body was not tightened, and hence the boot was just loosely slipped over the throttle body possibly allowing dirty air to seep past. Also, the fasteners holding the throttle body to the intake manifold were in need of tightening, and the corner of my airbox cover was cracked off. The piece of plastic debris was sitting on top of my air filter on the engine side of the filter, so luckily vaccuum didn't suck it into the engine. After finding all of this, my confidence in the repair work was pretty shaken, so I went over every fastener I could access without disassembling anything and just checked everything for tightness.

Additionally, I recieved a letter from Chrysler the other day indicating that they would be extending the warranty on the LH head only to 10 years/ 150K miles, and that 2011-2013 Wranglers were affected. Although I have alot of respect for the way they have handled this, I feel like they should be extending the entire engine warranty, or at the very least both LH and RH side heads. Who is to say that debris released into the engine due to the wear of the valve seats and guides didn't compromise the overall life of other internal components.

My main questions are how many people have had the RH cylinder head replaced, and has anyone else experienced the loose oil pan? I'm pretty sure these fasteners were not loose before, but I have a hard time believing that they would have needed to remove the pan to do the head replacement. The only thing I can think of was that the mechanic dropped something in the engine and needed to flush out the block.
07-08-2014 09:22 PM
gecko4 The 2013 and newer engines did use a different oil pump, and had a viscosity change from 5w30 to 5w20. I would try to push the dealer for a long block (comes assembled with both heads already on)
That way, everything is the updated design.
07-08-2014 09:18 PM
Riccochet 33,500 miles and no tick yet. She rattles like a sumbitch in the winter on cold starts though. Build date of 11/11. Good to hear about the warranty extension. A little peace of mind.
07-08-2014 09:07 PM
JayDee Well it finally happened, MIL light came on with 29,300 miles showing on odo. Jeep seemed to be running good up until about week ago and then started having a very slight rough idle.

Dropped the Jeep off for inspection, code P0302 , head in stock and was told it would be ready in a couple of days, was given a rental no questions asked.
Got a call from the dealer this afternoon with the Jeep only in the shop for about 7 hours and thought cool it's ready. NOT....
Was told that when removing the head bolts that the engine block threads came out with one of the bolts. Block is toast. The dealer called STAR and was instructed to install a new short block assembly. So I thought cool I will almost have a complete new engine minus the RH cylinder head. The only real bummer is that the short block is on backorder, the dealer will call with a eta tomorrow. My question to you guys is would you go ahead a spring for a new RH cylinder head? Haven't the seats and valves also been upgraded in this head ? This would give me a new long block assy and would be like starting over with a new engine. And are their any upgrades made to the 13 / 14 bottom ends of these engines that will be better than the 2012 engine. Just trying to have a good feeling about this whole mess. I am already missing my Jeep.

Thanks
06-17-2014 09:30 PM
Drumguy As many have mentioned before, be sure to check your coolant level once this is done. Lazy dealerships just don't seem to want to burp the system correctly and you'll just be back again for a top-off if you don't have some coolant handy.
06-17-2014 05:44 AM
gecko4
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomthbomb View Post
So, should those of us with a 2012 and a new head stay with 5w30 or use 5w20? I am using 5w30 full synthetic. Maybe middle ground? Btw, did anyone get to 44k miles before the head failed like I did, or am I the high mileage head changer?
I'd still stick with what the manual recommends for your year. Remember, the 2013 has a different oil pump with the 5w20.
06-16-2014 06:15 PM
tomthbomb
Quote:
Originally Posted by gecko4 View Post
Probably just an over site. In 2012, the oil spec for the 3.6 was 5w30. In 2013, the head was upgraded ( I'd really like to know what was done to improve it), a different oil pump was used, and the viscosity dropped to 5w20. I'm only guessing, but part of the reason for that would be to flood the upper valve train with oil. This would aid in removing heat, the root cause of the head problems.
So, should those of us with a 2012 and a new head stay with 5w30 or use 5w20?

I am using 5w30 full synthetic. Maybe middle ground?

Btw, did anyone get to 44k miles before the head failed like I did, or am I the high mileage head changer?
06-16-2014 12:59 PM
blankster Here is another link on the warranty. I suspect a letter will be mailed to all those who are covered.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...e-2011-13-v-6s
06-15-2014 09:34 PM
gecko4
Quote:
Originally Posted by rox-n-mud View Post
Got my oil changed by the stealership the other day. Just finally looked at the receipt, they put 5W-20 in. On the valve cover and in the manual it says 5W-30. Does anyone think they may do this cuz of the head problem? I claim ignorance here, I really don't know. Someone school me up on oil weights and such.
Probably just an over site. In 2012, the oil spec for the 3.6 was 5w30. In 2013, the head was upgraded ( I'd really like to know what was done to improve it), a different oil pump was used, and the viscosity dropped to 5w20. I'm only guessing, but part of the reason for that would be to flood the upper valve train with oil. This would aid in removing heat, the root cause of the head problems.
06-15-2014 07:42 PM
rox-n-mud Got my oil changed by the stealership the other day. Just finally looked at the receipt, they put 5W-20 in. On the valve cover and in the manual it says 5W-30. Does anyone think they may do this cuz of the head problem? I claim ignorance here, I really don't know. Someone school me up on oil weights and such.
06-14-2014 06:00 PM
rox-n-mud Great, guess I can stop worrying. Can you provide an actual web-link please?
06-14-2014 02:22 PM
Pressurized
Quote:
Originally Posted by rox-n-mud View Post
Do you have knowledge of them extending the warrantee for heads?
Here is where the information is coming from:

Warranty Extension
06-14-2014 01:05 PM
rox-n-mud
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRiverJeep View Post
With the warranty extended to 10 years/150,000 miles (whichever comes first) on the problem heads, I wouldn't worry about it. I would just drive it as intended and don't baby it. If/when the head starts failing, you'll eventually get a CEL. That will lead to the leak-down test and head replacement if it fails the test.

Do you have knowledge of them extending the warrantee for heads?
06-14-2014 10:51 AM
1Topp
06-13-2014 10:16 PM
socal-jk
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRiverJeep View Post
With the warranty extended to 10 years/150,000 miles (whichever comes first) on the problem heads, I wouldn't worry about it.

I would just drive it as intended and don't baby it. If/when the head starts failing, you'll eventually get a CEL. That will lead to the leak-down test and head replacement if it fails the test.
Extended warranty?
06-13-2014 07:16 PM
RockyRiverJeep With the warranty extended to 10 years/150,000 miles (whichever comes first) on the problem heads, I wouldn't worry about it.

I would just drive it as intended and don't baby it. If/when the head starts failing, you'll eventually get a CEL. That will lead to the leak-down test and head replacement if it fails the test.
06-11-2014 08:40 PM
UnlimitedJ33per I haven't thrown a CEL, but my engine sounds like a dang diesel. Not sure if it's the natural engine noise/valve chatter or a problematic ticking. 2012 with 53,000 miles
06-11-2014 08:01 PM
snobnk Roughly same mileage as above..No tickey..jinks
06-11-2014 07:49 PM
SilverMiner 2012, 43,000 miles, still waiting.
06-11-2014 07:21 PM
RockyRiverJeep Thank you for your response.
06-11-2014 09:16 AM
Hoot2
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRiverJeep View Post
My 2012 Wrangler JK has started to have intermittent loss of power window function. They don't go down sometimes, and then a while later they will work like nothing is wrong with them. Anybody experience this?
This happened to me once....and only once, about 8 months ago. I turned the Jeep off, then back on again, and it's been fine ever since. I've seen this written before...can't really explain it!
06-11-2014 05:17 AM
RockyRiverJeep I never had the doors off. I will check the wiring connections, thanks.
06-10-2014 07:42 PM
GreenMachine13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRiverJeep View Post
My 2012 Wrangler JK has started to have intermittent loss of power window function. They don't go down sometimes, and then a while later they will work like nothing is wrong with them. Anybody experience this?
Have you ever disconnected the doors? Maybe a loose connection. Check that the wire harness is plugged in firmly.
06-10-2014 07:27 PM
RockyRiverJeep
Power Windows Won't Go Down

My 2012 Wrangler JK has started to have intermittent loss of power window function. They don't go down sometimes, and then a while later they will work like nothing is wrong with them. Anybody experience this?
06-10-2014 05:48 PM
gecko4
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMachine13 View Post
Says only applies to vehicles built on or before July 25, 2012. Not sure if any 2013 models were built before that date.
Since mine was built 07/27, and by the vin, I'm within the first 750 units built for 2013, I think all 2013 wranglers have the new heads. Keep in mind, the TSB refers to other chrysler models as well (that use the 3.6)
06-10-2014 05:43 PM
gecko4
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankster View Post
Latest TSB issued on the head issue - Seems to indicate an extended warranty period: http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_0900214.pdf
Thanks for the info!
My jeep was built 07/27/2012. Not sure if I should be disappointed there is no extended warranty on it, or happy that it may have the new heads. (Even though my julian date head stamping is 2042) Lol.
06-10-2014 05:42 PM
Drumguy Taking the '12 in on Friday for a CEL, which I suspect is finally due to this issue. About 35k, runs normally, averages about 20 mpg. We shall see.
06-10-2014 04:43 PM
blackrubicon Took mine in 2 weeks ago! Took em about hour and they called back said was bad head. 14k miles. Appears they did a good job on it. Took em about 8 hours. Got they tranny/power steering recall fixed at same time. Service guy told me the hole for valve was drilled cockeyed and in time it wears and caused compression loss.I been putting it off didn't want to deal with the hassle but it went real smooth. 2012 build date 12-11.
06-10-2014 04:01 PM
bluehash
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMachine13 View Post
Says only applies to vehicles built on or before July 25, 2012.

Not sure if any 2013 models were built before that date.
Thanks!
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