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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-14-2014 01:07 PM
skeeter0311 Thanks Ghecko. I'm Blond, Male ,polish and old so I get confused easy.
09-14-2014 08:35 AM
gecko4 AA and AB heads have a greater potential to fail than the AC heads. You have to check the Julian date code etched into your head to see what you have. Really, anything built August 2012 or after should be fine.
09-13-2014 09:09 PM
skeeter0311 OK, I'm confused. Which are the bad heads (Ab or Ac)? My Sport was built Nov 2012. Good, Bad or what.
09-13-2014 08:08 PM
Lusus_Naturae Peaches - The number you need is only the one row, if you can confirm, I believe yours would be 2973b for that row. 297th day of 2013. Another AC head possibly.

I say possibly because at day 206 of 2013, they most likely recalibrated the machine for production year 2014 to begin. If this holds true, like previous years, it's possible we have had no new redesign that would rename it to say an AD head, but it could still change it for better or worse.

I'm still wondering if the issues we are seeing on these 2014's are coming from AA heads that were pulled from the shelf and thrown into production runs - or if there is a new issue.

I have nothing new to report right now, I may get some numbers later.
09-04-2014 04:33 PM
Peaches I've got a JKUR 2014. Just turned over 7k today. Sounds like a small diesel in the AM when I start her up. This is my #'s off of left head: 2973B16930011000. Don't know if that helps, hinders, or is useless?! Just glad I am not crazy about engine noise from left head in 2014 model.
09-04-2014 06:11 AM
m998dna BOooooo! Another night with insomnia.



.
09-04-2014 05:54 AM
Lusus_Naturae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastek View Post
I thought the last letter indicated the shift. A for the first 12hrs an B for the second.
Interesting thought.
09-03-2014 02:27 AM
akc1955 I ordered my 2014 JKR in February and it has a 3-14 build date on the door sticker. Both heads are 0664B, which should be C heads. Only 2100 miles so far, but it runs like a clock and I have had zero issues. Off topic, but I also changed oil at 1500 miles and there are no signs of oil filter housing leaks. Hope everyone with problems can get things fixed to their satisfaction!
09-02-2014 11:30 AM
Blastek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusus_Naturae View Post
I have been having some bad back issues again this weekend off and on, so bear with me. I was able to get more photos downloaded again and have a little info to add.

I have uploaded them to my Photobucket here - Jeep Engine Photos Photos by Lusus_Naturae | Photobucket

Late this past week Bob sent me a text. He's replacing the head on a 2012 Grand Cherokee, 36k miles, left head, 3.6 engine. Head number 2951A.

On Saturday we made a quick stop at another dealer, my wife wanted to take a quick look at the cargo space in a few things and price them out. So we were browsing and I went to take a peek at a few Wranglers on the lot and took some photos too. These are 'good' heads as far as we know, earlier there was a post asking if there are newer heads coming out since we have been discussing 2011 and 2012 heads.

In summary, what looked at - all are left head numbers -

2014 Wrangler JKU - Dragon Edition - (dealer can't seem to sell it) - 2853B
2014 Wrangler - 2dr - Sahara - 1454B
2015 Wrangler JKU - Sahara - 2184A

I don't want to read much into these numbers at this point, especially since I haven't looked at a lot of vehicles, but the 2015 would have been one of the first off the line after they did the annual re-tooling check before starting the new model year - remember that's when the AC head began being produced on day 206 of 2012.

Pat quoted this on another thread, "Last day 2014 Wranglers will be built is July 11th. 2015s will start production by the 18th at the latest." Julian dates would begin for 'new' heads on day 199 if production starts July 18. If Pat is wrong, and it falls back into the older way Jeep shuts down and retools, the date to begin the next model year is usually July 25th, or 206. The head from the 2015 was made on day 218, 2014 or August 6th.

If you look at the number stamped on the 2015 I listed, it ends with an 'A' again. The others I've seen have been ending in 'B' for the left side. Now I may just be reading more into this then I need to, but I figured I'd put it out there.
I thought the last letter indicated the shift. A for the first 12hrs an B for the second.
09-02-2014 04:13 AM
Lusus_Naturae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena1 View Post
Build dates before July 27, 2012 have the AA head. Good news for those who have the defective head, should also have the extended 150,000 warranty that Chrysler is honoring on these vehicles.
Day 206 in 2012 was July 25th. Anything with 2062 or higher is an AC head.

This isn't exactly true though. The AB head has unknown/unconfirmed production dates. Generally it's been said there was a 6 week period of time from mid June 2012 to when they shut down for retooling in July that the AB head was made. Theory has it that someone may have either rebooted the machine or changed a spec somewhere causing the AB head to happen. Of course, they may have just rewritten the programming code as well.
09-02-2014 04:00 AM
Lusus_Naturae I have been having some bad back issues again this weekend off and on, so bear with me. I was able to get more photos downloaded again and have a little info to add.

I have uploaded them to my Photobucket here - Jeep Engine Photos Photos by Lusus_Naturae | Photobucket

Late this past week Bob sent me a text. He's replacing the head on a 2012 Grand Cherokee, 36k miles, left head, 3.6 engine. Head number 2951A.

On Saturday we made a quick stop at another dealer, my wife wanted to take a quick look at the cargo space in a few things and price them out. So we were browsing and I went to take a peek at a few Wranglers on the lot and took some photos too. These are 'good' heads as far as we know, earlier there was a post asking if there are newer heads coming out since we have been discussing 2011 and 2012 heads.

In summary, what looked at - all are left head numbers -

2014 Wrangler JKU - Dragon Edition - (dealer can't seem to sell it) - 2853B
2014 Wrangler - 2dr - Sahara - 1454B
2015 Wrangler JKU - Sahara - 2184A

I don't want to read much into these numbers at this point, especially since I haven't looked at a lot of vehicles, but the 2015 would have been one of the first off the line after they did the annual re-tooling check before starting the new model year - remember that's when the AC head began being produced on day 206 of 2012.

Pat quoted this on another thread, "Last day 2014 Wranglers will be built is July 11th. 2015s will start production by the 18th at the latest." Julian dates would begin for 'new' heads on day 199 if production starts July 18. If Pat is wrong, and it falls back into the older way Jeep shuts down and retools, the date to begin the next model year is usually July 25th, or 206. The head from the 2015 was made on day 218, 2014 or August 6th.

If you look at the number stamped on the 2015 I listed, it ends with an 'A' again. The others I've seen have been ending in 'B' for the left side. Now I may just be reading more into this then I need to, but I figured I'd put it out there.
09-02-2014 03:31 AM
Lusus_Naturae ^This we can't answer, just don't know, but you are thinking what I'm thinking.
08-30-2014 11:27 AM
demarpaint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xena1 View Post
Build dates before July 27, 2012 have the AA head. Good news for those who have the defective head, should also have the extended 150,000 warranty that Chrysler is honoring on these vehicles.

Then that would mean the 2014 Durango mentioned in this thread has an engine that was made prior to July 27, 2012? A reconditioned head? Or Chrysler has some lousy stock rotation practices.
08-29-2014 03:22 PM
Xena1 Build dates before July 27, 2012 have the AA head. Good news for those who have the defective head, should also have the extended 150,000 warranty that Chrysler is honoring on these vehicles.
08-29-2014 03:10 PM
demarpaint Wow! A few things come to mind. 1. Chrysler produced a ton of these heads and their stock rotation sucks. 2. They're reusing the old heads after they re-manufacture them, not good. OTOH for warranty work they might be able to install a re-manufactured part and get away with it.

Either way I'm not feeling good about this at all.

Are the AC heads really the fix? Or will they eventually fail too?

I was almost willing to bet the faulty AA heads were being melted and recycled that way.

We'll never get a straight answer from them. That's the only fact we know about this problem.
08-27-2014 01:49 AM
Lusus_Naturae The theory that Bob and I had discussed was that the inside channels in the AA were too small, and the coolant flows from the right head to the left head, making the left head receive warmed coolant. The left head's narrow channels can't cool the head fast enough, which leads to the issues, and eventual replacement of the head. This has been proven by either of us, it's simply what we are seeing and determining from what's seen.

So, going by this theory, the defective left head, if not warped or otherwise damaged, could possibly be remanned to remove more of the inside channel and open up the coolant flow. The thing is, we do CNC and milling in my family - this isn't a small task to do and the engine channels are cast throughout I believe - I honestly haven't looked closer at it, maybe next time. If they are cast throughout - the amount of work needed to measure and machine it out would probably be more than scrapping the metal and replacing it with a new designed head.

I pulled these from another post awhile back, I don't have a credit for who took them, sorry, but these show a AA head that was pulled (the dirty one) and a AC head that was replacing it. Link to my Photobucket as I'm out of bandwidth again here.

http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/Lu...?sort=3&page=1

I did have the photos noted, the used one is AA head Julian date 1321A, and the new one is AC RL Head Julian date 0613B. Which brings back the mention above of RL being a remanned head.
08-27-2014 01:38 AM
Lusus_Naturae
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbtj View Post
My first question would be, when did the Durango come off the assembly line? Vehicles can sit on the lot for months, before being sold, so the mileage has little to no bearing in the issue.
This I can't answer, but why would a 2012 head show up on a 2014 vehicle after two revisions were already done, AB and AC? Why would or how would a trouble prone AA head get installed? Is someone looking the other way, or telling people to use whatever is on the shelves we have to keep production up. Go go go!
08-26-2014 12:59 PM
Blastek Well, way back when they were replacing heads in 2012, this issue of part re-use came up. I was assured mine was "absolutely not a re-manufactured part" at the time it was replaced.

The heads part numbers that we got as replacements are prefixed with "RL", which means the dealer must send the head back to Chrysler so they can create a re-manufactured head from the core. From those two cases posted above, it seems like they are using the re-manufactured heads in new production vehicles. That assumption relies on the julian date being the <NNN> day of the year followed by the <Y> year.

Unless the trailing number on the julian date does not indicate the year, it kinda looks like they are reusing heads. Need more evidence from 2013 and 2014 owners to see if they have 3 and 4 for 13 and 14...
08-26-2014 08:54 AM
m998dna
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbtj View Post
My first question would be, when did the Durango come off the assembly line? Vehicles can sit on the lot for months, before being sold, so the mileage has little to no bearing in the issue.
Its a 2014.. And it has 2012 heads on it. If my moral compass is pointing north that tells me they stockpiled and are using new old stock or reworked the returned heads.. Either way it's wrong.

At this point I would classify Chrysler Fiat as scum bags.

.
08-26-2014 06:37 AM
gecko4 If you take a look at the other pentastar head thread, a member just got her head changed under warranty. The tech left out some bolts and she took a pic. The julian date is 3041a, so chrysler is definitely using up the old heads. Possibly reworked??
It's possible they stopped selling the old castings until they came up with a fix to put them back in service.
08-26-2014 06:36 AM
bbtj My first question would be, when did the Durango come off the assembly line? Vehicles can sit on the lot for months, before being sold, so the mileage has little to no bearing in the issue.
08-25-2014 11:56 PM
m998dna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusus_Naturae View Post
Yes, or you work too many years on graveyard shift and can't sleep like a "normal" person anymore.

So, I talked to my tech at the dealer this afternoon, I'll call him Bob. I told him a bit about this thread and asked if he would take a look at the Julian dates on 'problem vehicles' coming in and take a few notes if he could. He said he would try to help out.

So today he showed me a 2014 Durango with a 3.6 engine. The vehicle had about 7,000 miles on it, and both heads were being replaced under warranty. So he showed me the heads, both were out already, and I took some photos.

Both heads are early manufacturing dates. So the question becomes - are they remanning the heads they are pulled off as defective and sending them out again on new vehicles? Or are they using up a stockpile of defective heads for some reason, like hoping to keep production up and figuring they'll fix them later if they have issues.

In any case here are the photos for the 2014 Durango today. Both from January 14, 2012 - AA heads.
I think you just uncovered a major no no. If these were returned as defective parts and Chrysler reworked, reconditioned or remanufactured them and installed the old heads on new vehicles, I think Chrysler can get in a load of deep do do over this.

Especially since a new 2014 vehicle is having both replaced at 7,000 miles under warranty.

This sounds like a class action waiting to happen.

Damn... This may be jail time worthy - misrepresenting and selling a new vehicle with used or reworked parts?

Any consumer product lawyers in the house?

.
08-25-2014 11:02 PM
Old Dogger ^^^This is not good..........
08-25-2014 10:40 PM
Lusus_Naturae Yes, or you work too many years on graveyard shift and can't sleep like a "normal" person anymore.

So, I talked to my tech at the dealer this afternoon, I'll call him Bob. I told him a bit about this thread and asked if he would take a look at the Julian dates on 'problem vehicles' coming in and take a few notes if he could. He said he would try to help out.

So today he showed me a 2014 Durango with a 3.6 engine. The vehicle had about 7,000 miles on it, and both heads were being replaced under warranty. So he showed me the heads, both were out already, and I took some photos.

Both heads are early manufacturing dates. So the question becomes - are they remanning the heads they are pulled off as defective and sending them out again on new vehicles? Or are they using up a stockpile of defective heads for some reason, like hoping to keep production up and figuring they'll fix them later if they have issues.

In any case here are the photos for the 2014 Durango today. Both from January 14, 2012 - AA heads.
08-25-2014 05:15 AM
m998dna This is what happens when you have insomnia...



.
08-25-2014 05:10 AM
Lusus_Naturae
Quote:
Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
Wow... ancient thread brought to life.

.
BOooooo!
08-25-2014 05:10 AM
Lusus_Naturae Raising this from the dead to add some new info. I was working on my Jeep last week in the driveway, and I live near a dealer, and one of the tech's stopped over to see if everything was ok after work. Nice guy, eh?

So, we start chatting a bit about stuff and he's 'the' guy that does engine work there. So I ask about the head issues, trying to make light talk. He then tells me he's seen an uptick in 2014's with head issues coming in. I have heard of a few, including seeing a few posts on this forum, but I didn't think it was becoming a known issue like the 2012's.

I didn't have the brainpower to process some of what he said at the time, but he was telling me about how it's across the models using the 3.6 engine, not just Wrangler. I showed him the julian date system this post explains, and he said they use that often for parts - but he hadn't heard about using it for the heads before (makes me wonder).

Anyhow, if there are people out there with a 2014 and it's having a head problem, or lifters, etc. would you please add your info to this list?

JK or JKU
head date
left or right side or both
dealer diagnosis and/or fix for the issue
08-25-2014 05:06 AM
m998dna Wow... ancient thread brought to life.

.
08-25-2014 05:00 AM
Lusus_Naturae 255 - the day - Sept 12 /// the following 2 is for 2012. The B means nothing.

Should be an AC head.
11-09-2013 07:59 PM
AGNP2013 Oh, finally I found my #.

2013 JKUS. Bought it in Dec 2012.

Built date: Sept 12 (does it mean Sept 12th or Sept 2012?)
2552B

Looks like I have an AC head.
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