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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-06-2012 09:12 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDogDoc View Post
Ok man. As a disabled vet myself good on you!
Thank you for your sacrifices and service to our nation
12-06-2012 08:48 PM
DevilDogDoc Ok man. As a disabled vet myself good on you!
12-06-2012 08:39 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDogDoc View Post
I didn't realize I was dealing with a garage business, I thought it was a real company I was talking too. I apologize for any misunderstanding.
My commitment to school and the Army prevents me from going full time. It would be irresponsible of me to shut down and restart everything when I am gone for months at a time.

The state of Indiana, Federal government, and Better Business Bureau all seem to recognize me as a "real company".
12-06-2012 08:23 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by pne123 View Post
Nalin, went to your site. After all these posts your rockers are cheaper than the ones in the OP, before shipping anyway. After xmas I will be ordering a set. nice work.

Oops addition for the tube. still ordering.
Thank you for looking.

Become a fan on Facebook for 10% off year round (has promo code listed in "about" section)
Promo code "DEFINEGOOD" for 15% off through Dec 31st.
12-06-2012 08:15 PM
DevilDogDoc His words not mine....
12-06-2012 08:07 PM
pne123 Poor choice of word, replace w/ "Small Business".
12-06-2012 08:03 PM
pne123 At least you are consistent.
12-06-2012 08:02 PM
DevilDogDoc I didn't realize I was dealing with a garage business, I thought it was a real company I was talking too. I apologize for any misunderstanding.
12-06-2012 07:58 PM
pne123
Quote:
Originally Posted by pne123 View Post
It is an extra machining process which takes time. Time=money
Not that nalin needs in any help but these comments seem to belittle the time and effort it takes to make a product.

"No doubt they are proud of them holes....."
"Oh I understand that concept completely but $50 for 8 holes seems a bit excessive...."

Sounds like nalin is doing this in his spare time in his garage because he likes to and not for the money, he is not making much per set at the prices on his site, and I do not think he is making it by selling mass quantity like walmart. I think he should be given kudos for having the skill and initiative to accomplish it. He does not seem like a big evil corporation but a person w/ some pride in his work. Sounds like to how America was built instead of him price gauging or selling crap.

And to expand on the countersunk cost. Most of our parts were rejected due to Csink issues. Too deep or shallow and the head is not flush. Both is bad and a rejected part is money lost.
12-06-2012 07:48 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDogDoc View Post
You know what started this whole shitstorm? Me questioning the fact that you charge $50 to countersink 10 holes. That's was all.
You were given a justified answer.
12-06-2012 07:40 PM
DevilDogDoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by NalinMFG View Post
As this entire thread has pointed out, most are MUCH more concerned with price. Do you think Smittybuilt or Savvy gets more business? I hop into this thread to defend quality over China, and you have made a personal vendetta to belittle the level of quality that I manufacturer based on your opinions.

Ship me your Savvy rockers - I'll cut you a replica out of 3/4" titanium and use (25) 1" bolts per side. You'll pay for it though.
You know what started this whole shitstorm? Me questioning the fact that you charge $50 to countersink 10 holes. That's was all.
12-06-2012 07:35 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDogDoc View Post
Well some folk want more than average or usual in our gear but if it works for you go for it. I prefer the best myself when I have the choice. I mean an average cardio-thoracic surgeon may be ok but I would rather have the best.
As this entire thread has pointed out, most are MUCH more concerned with price. Do you think Smittybuilt or Savvy gets more business? I hop into this thread to defend quality over China, and you have made a personal vendetta to belittle the level of quality that I manufacturer based on your opinions.

Ship me your Savvy rockers - I'll cut you a replica out of 3/4" titanium and use (25) 1" bolts per side. You'll pay for it though.
12-06-2012 07:31 PM
pne123 Nalin, went to your site. After all these posts your rockers are cheaper than the ones in the OP, before shipping anyway. After xmas I will be ordering a set. nice work.

Oops addition for the tube. still ordering.
12-06-2012 07:08 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetesJeep View Post
But you missed my point, why would you criticize a high school kid trying to mod his Jeep? What do you really expect him to do; wait and save for months just for rockers, and not fix up his Jeep just so you can make your profit? Give us a break and go complain to the other vendors rather than bitch at potential buyers. ..
Look buddy, I'm in college right now -- that is EXACTLY what I did when I was in high school. It took me 2 months of saving to get my first mod...Poison Spyder rocker guards(during their Christmas sale with free shipping mind you). I've had enough Chinese junk to know that it's going to cost me even more to replace it down the road with something done right.

Go back a reread this thread. Not once have I claimed that I sell "the best of everything" or that anyone should buy from me. I offer a high level of quality at an affordable price. In fact I suggested numerous other vendors to purchase rockers from -- I specialize in custom work.

If you'd like some "bitching" -- I commented on this thread to protest against sending money to China, and to support America vendors who pay to keep this forum running. It turned into a nitpicking fight - specifically towards one of my products. If you don't like it -- don't buy it. My products are a reflection of my home garage capabilities, how much time I can spend away from my real job, and the demands of the market.
12-06-2012 06:37 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by pne123 View Post
I am not going to get into the which way is better to mount but coming from a mechanical engineering backgound I will say that one way might be overkill for 90% of users. The bending moment on rocker angle steel is way higher than the total weight of a jeep. Now if the body mounting points are not in a the same plane and the rocker does not compensate for that I do not know.

What I can tell you for sure that not all steel is made the same. China steel SUCKS. When I designed trains all parts had to come w/ a certificate of material origin. Anything from china was rejected out right unless the manufacture paid for an independent testing lab to verify that it conforms to ASTM standards. China lies about everything
I wanted to verify that the 5/2 method is on the same plane -- it's a straight shot 90* bend on the 180 ton brake. The rocker is sandwiched flush with the reinforced bottom portion of the tub and on top of the body mount.

x2 for the Chinese steel statement.
12-06-2012 06:33 PM
DevilDogDoc Well some folk want more than average or usual in our gear but if it works for you go for it. I prefer the best myself when I have the choice. I mean an average cardio-thoracic surgeon may be ok but I would rather have the best.
12-06-2012 06:27 PM
NalinMFG
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDogDoc View Post
Thank you again and for Nalin to say that his "standard" is the standard and that anything more is not needed is ridiculous. That was my entire point that just cause thats how some or even alot of people do something doesnt mean it is the best way to do it.
I just got back and have several replies to make...but do me a favor and look up what "standard" means before you go on a tangent.

"Used or accepted as normal or average"
"An object that is regarded as the usual or most common size or form of its kind: We stock the deluxe models as well as the standards."
"An average or normal requirement, quality, quantity, level, grade, etc."

How can you roll off a list of other companies that use the exact same method and argue that it is not standard?
12-06-2012 05:28 PM
getalildirty
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetesJeep

Up yours? Haha, ended your monologue with a bang didn't we!

Well hopefully you will reach all those consumers who are willing to pay for your product and intellectual property over the less expensive version. Isn't this where research/development help develop your process to make your product cheaper?

But you missed my point, why would you criticize a high school kid trying to mod his Jeep? What do you really expect him to do; wait and save for months just for rockers, and not fix up his Jeep just so you can make your profit? Give us a break and go complain to the other vendors rather than bitch at potential buyers. ..
I appreciate you saying this. Thats the point i was trying to make when imped told me i was annoying. Its like everyone just automatically assumes that i have an disposable income to spend on top of line parts. Is everything that all you guys do top of line? Cause if not why arent we critisizing your stuff? Get better sown jeans man and that computer ur typing on if it isnt the biggest avalible mac your doing it all wrong
12-06-2012 05:10 PM
zeprider25
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetesJeep View Post
Up yours? Haha, ended your monologue with a bang didn't we!

Well hopefully you will reach all those consumers who are willing to pay for your product and intellectual property over the less expensive version. Isn't this where research/development help develop your process to make your product cheaper?

But you missed my point, why would you criticize a high school kid trying to mod his Jeep? What do you really expect him to do; wait and save for months just for rockers, and not fix up his Jeep just so you can make your profit? Give us a break and go complain to the other vendors rather than bitch at potential buyers. ..
12-06-2012 03:57 PM
PetesJeep
Quote:
Originally Posted by NalinMFG

Here lies the root of our discussion! Let me tell you a short personal story about competition with China... A Chinese manufacturer purchased one of my items, copied it exactly within .001", and has been selling it for 2 years for less than my cost to produce it. I lose roughly 400 sales/yr because of this. The funny thing is that our patent, trademark, and copyright laws mean nothing to China. I have almost $2k invested in protecting my intellectual property, but our laws have no jurisdiction internationally. This is happening to almost every industry.

American products cost more to produce due to the suffocating amount of regulations. If you're selling lemonade and it costs you $1 to make a pitcher, how do you compete with your neighbor if it only costs him $.25 to make the same thing? His might be more bitter, not have any ice, or perhaps he stole your grandma's secret recipe. If it's hot outside -- people will go for the $.25 lemonade every time because today's market values quantity over quality.

The selling point that I market is quality. I have a solid track record to prove it because I don't make compromises in my work. I'm not going to lower my standards - so up yours.
Up yours? Haha, ended your monologue with a bang didn't we!

Well hopefully you will reach all those consumers who are willing to pay for your product and intellectual property over the less expensive version. Isn't this where research/development help develop your process to make your product cheaper?

But you missed my point, why would you criticize a high school kid trying to mod his Jeep? What do you really expect him to do; wait and save for months just for rockers, and not fix up his Jeep just so you can make your profit? Give us a break and go complain to the other vendors rather than bitch at potential buyers. ..
12-06-2012 03:38 PM
getalildirty
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkfx
x2
12-06-2012 03:21 PM
tkfx
12-06-2012 02:38 PM
GoldenSahara00
Quote:
Originally Posted by geiman

If you want to be fair, Savvy's sliders aren't a piece of bent steel with DOM welded to them. That's just nitpicking of course, but so is pretty much everything else in this thread.

Damn right. That's all this forum is anymore.

Devil, I apologize that you take my posts too literally and cannot understand the concepts behind my statements. The fact that more work and engineering goes into the big name parts is what separates them from the others. Not the name. That is my simple point. I like direct proof.

Imped I agree with your points as I'm sure invert does. However the point here is not whether a product is superior. But the fact that individuals will push a product and say its the best, without proof. Savvy makes an awesome product. It cost reflects that. It may be the best. The question becomes when are we overbuilding and overspending on our rigs. I believe that comes down to personal preference. This hobby isn't cheap, but not everyone has the money to buy every product. And some folks like to fabricate, just for pleasure.

I can make some basic parts and have them work as we'll as I could ever need for the type of wheeling I do which is obvious far from KOH caliber. Similar to how you made your old flat skid. Then when you wanted to step up you did. Was your old skid inferior to the new one with separate cross member? Yes. Was it ineffective? No. It got the job done. But the new skid does it better. I hope this got my point across to all those in this thread.

I believe invert was saying that many competition rigs have custom I house fabricated parts on them that are just as good or better than Savvy. Not comparing, just providing an instance.

I really see no reason to continue this discussion as I believe all the points we can make about sliders have been made.
12-06-2012 02:26 PM
Imped
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos View Post
Well it looks like we're outside of my scope of knowledge
I can see that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos View Post
I am not convinced that those rock sliders are the best in existence yet though.

Lets see someone make a set out of titanium

Better yet, carbon nano-tubes...
Best off-the-shelf? Absolutely. Blaine doesn't engineer a product for it to be second-best and for those of us that have experience with other top products on the market, these stand above the rest. I'm not talking out of my ass here.

Frankly, I can't think of a way to make them better. 6061 rocker guard, heat treated 4130 chromolly steel slider, thick 6061 backing plate, excellent fasteners and fastening methods. If one found a way to improve on them, it'd cost them a boat load unless they had some very nice friends in high places.
12-06-2012 02:19 PM
InvertChaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by geiman View Post

Look at the majority of the KOH rigs you're referring to and try and see how exactly the Savvy sliders, which were made for a more stock-like TJ tub, would work for them. Plus that kind of rig isn't exactly worried about a little body damage.
Granted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Have you ever been to an Ultra 4 race or anything similar? How many full-bodied rigs did you see there competing?

This is a product for TJ TUBS. KOH style rigs don't have tubs to protect.

I'm not talking about reputation at all. I'm talking about ingenuity, design effectiveness, and execution. I've got plenty of pictures of "Pirate style" rigs with Savvy rocker guards if you'd like to see them. There are a couple different 'classes' of Pirate style rigs though. One class knows when someone can do it better than they can, the other doesn't care and tries to do it themselves anyway and it's usually obvious.

As for quality of the steel, what about quality of the aluminum?
Well it looks like we're outside of my scope of knowledge so I'll quit pushing the issue until I research some more I suppose. I am not convinced that those rock sliders are the best in existence yet though.

Lets see someone make a set out of titanium

Better yet, carbon nano-tubes...
12-06-2012 02:01 PM
Imped
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos View Post
Granted, I can't weld myself, so I guess my opinion won't carry as much weight. I just can't figure out why these sliders aren't super popular on the KOH style rigs on pirate if they're the best of the best is all.
Have you ever been to an Ultra 4 race or anything similar? How many full-bodied rigs did you see there competing?

This is a product for TJ TUBS. KOH style rigs don't have tubs to protect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos View Post
True. No one has objectively stated what makes A better than B except for the quality of steel. All it has been is arguing reputation against reputation. I cant claim to know much, but I do love asking questions and playing the devils advocate.
I'm not talking about reputation at all. I'm talking about ingenuity, design effectiveness, and execution. I've got plenty of pictures of "Pirate style" rigs with Savvy rocker guards if you'd like to see them. There are a couple different 'classes' of Pirate style rigs though. One class knows when someone can do it better than they can, the other doesn't care and tries to do it themselves anyway and it's usually obvious.

As for quality of the steel, what about quality of the aluminum?
12-06-2012 02:00 PM
geiman
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos View Post
I just can't figure out why these sliders aren't super popular on the KOH style rigs on pirate if they're the best of the best is all.
Look at the majority of the KOH rigs you're referring to and try and see how exactly the Savvy sliders, which were made for a more stock-like TJ tub, would work for them. Plus that kind of rig isn't exactly worried about a little body damage.
12-06-2012 01:57 PM
InvertChaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post

I wouldn't consider myself a bad fabricator. I've built rocker guards. There's no way I've got the machinery to build something up to par of Savvy's rocker guards. You need to spend some time with some before coming to such a quick conclusion....there's much more to it than you think. Believe me, the money wasn't easy to spend and if I could even come close to doing as good of a job, I would have.
Granted, I can't weld myself, so I guess my opinion won't carry as much weight. I just can't figure out why these sliders aren't super popular on the KOH style rigs on pirate if they're the best of the best is all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geiman View Post

If you want to be fair, Savvy's sliders aren't a piece of bent steel with DOM welded to them. That's just nitpicking of course, but so is pretty much everything else in this thread.
True. No one has objectively stated what makes A better than B except for the quality of steel. All it has been is arguing reputation against reputation. I cant claim to know much, but I do love asking questions and playing the devils advocate.
12-06-2012 01:53 PM
DevilDogDoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
I wouldn't consider myself a bad fabricator. I've built rocker guards. There's no way I've got the machinery to build something up to par of Savvy's rocker guards. You need to spend some time with some before coming to such a quick conclusion....there's much more to it than you think. Believe me, the money wasn't easy to spend and if I could even come close to doing as good of a job, I would have.
And with that I now sign off as I have nothing further to add that hasn't been said.
12-06-2012 01:48 PM
geiman
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertChaos View Post
If you have the same piece of bent steel made by two different people with a similar design and slap a savvy sticker on one, does it make it better? Rock sliders are not hard to reverse engineer.
If you want to be fair, Savvy's sliders aren't a piece of bent steel with DOM welded to them. That's just nitpicking of course, but so is pretty much everything else in this thread.
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