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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-30-2012 09:49 PM
Hanksride
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkproximity
#1. you'd be a goddamned retard for following someone that close at that speed..

#2. you shouldn't be running stock brakes with bigger tires, just because you can doesn't mean you should, and if your Jeep takes forever to stop with stock tires then you have problems..

#3. Leaf springs resist upward movement as well as downward movement, as well as twisting movement.. guess what coil springs do? They only only only only and also only resist compressing movement.. hence therefore that is why they are definitely; by very nature, more stable.
X2 - 100% Agree... My YJ without sway and track bars stop 10x better than my stock 04 Z-71 truck. I can shut the YJ down as fast as any vehicle I have owned and feel comfortable doing it.
12-30-2012 09:17 PM
OregonPlinker
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkproximity View Post
#1. you'd be a goddamned retard for following someone that close at that speed..
Yup
12-30-2012 09:01 PM
darkproximity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
There are numerous scenarios where cranking the wheel is your only option. Say someone is in front of you. You are both at highway speeds, and are travelling 2 seconds behind the driver in front of you. The driver in front does not see that traffic has slowed to a stop in front of him, and because it is a large SUV, you can't see the road ahead of him.

Suddenly, the driver is forced to swerve into the other lane, and because these are Jeeps that do infact take some time to stop, your only option is to swerve as well to avoid hitting the stopped drivers.

This is a scenario that has played out numerous times around here on one particular exit, and as such I always adjust my lane position in advance. But for someone not familiar with the area it could very well be a possibility.

I have driven without my swaybar before. And because leaf springs are still capable of flexing up and down going around corners, I always keep mine connected on paved roads. That is the point I am trying to make. No matter how stiff your leafs are, or the type of leafs you use, they will always flex up and down with the centrifugal forces enacted upon the Jeep. That is fact. The swaybar is the resisting force that prevents the Jeep from rocking back and forth.

They are not more stable than coils in an up and down motion. They can flex Justas much just as easily.
#1. you'd be a goddamned retard for following someone that close at that speed..

#2. you shouldn't be running stock brakes with bigger tires, just because you can doesn't mean you should, and if your Jeep takes forever to stop with stock tires then you have problems..

#3. Leaf springs resist upward movement as well as downward movement, as well as twisting movement.. guess what coil springs do? They only only only only and also only resist compressing movement.. hence therefore that is why they are definitely; by very nature, more stable.
12-30-2012 08:59 PM
OregonPlinker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post

Also I call bull**** to anyone who says their Jeep can corner at 2x the posted speed limits around corners without any body roll, that's just flat out arrogance. Maybe you don't know what body roll is then, but I'm not believing it for one moment. The whole point behind removing your swaybar is to gain MORE flex in the front end- what do you think is going to happen in a corner? Obviously you are going to flex more, and the centrifugal forces acting upon the body are going to pull it outward.
I didnt say the posted speed limit. I said the suggested speed. In Oregon the speed limit in rural areas is 55. They put up orangeish signs that suggest the speed they consider safe. So while the speed limit is 55 they might suggest 35mph for a certain corner and 45 on the next. I never said it didnt have body roll dude. I just said I did it. And I did do it.lol It probably wasnt real smart but it did happen. Crotch rockets run the same road in three minutes or less and its a little over 6 miles if I remember right. They call it joining the 3 minute club. I did it in a little over 4 minutes in my old mustang. Come out to Oregon during the summer and we'll go for a ride...
12-30-2012 08:27 PM
Xpress There are numerous scenarios where cranking the wheel is your only option. Say someone is in front of you. You are both at highway speeds, and are travelling 2 seconds behind the driver in front of you. The driver in front does not see that traffic has slowed to a stop in front of him, and because it is a large SUV, you can't see the road ahead of him.

Suddenly, the driver is forced to swerve into the other lane, and because these are Jeeps that do infact take some time to stop, your only option is to swerve as well to avoid hitting the stopped drivers.

This is a scenario that has played out numerous times around here on one particular exit, and as such I always adjust my lane position in advance. But for someone not familiar with the area it could very well be a possibility.

I have driven without my swaybar before. And because leaf springs are still capable of flexing up and down going around corners, I always keep mine connected on paved roads. That is the point I am trying to make. No matter how stiff your leafs are, or the type of leafs you use, they will always flex up and down with the centrifugal forces enacted upon the Jeep. That is fact. The swaybar is the resisting force that prevents the Jeep from rocking back and forth.

They are not more stable than coils in an up and down motion. They can flex Justas much just as easily.
12-30-2012 11:43 AM
Nas.a7x
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkproximity View Post
i'll add, a person who removes any suspension component; needed or not, should be sure to adjust their driving style as it will handle differently. Take the time to relearn how to drive.
x2
12-30-2012 11:40 AM
darkproximity I'll add, a person who removes any suspension component; needed or not, should be sure to adjust their driving style as it will handle differently. Take the time to relearn how to drive.
12-30-2012 11:39 AM
Nas.a7x Don't get ur panties in a bunch I'm not saying that anyone is stupid
12-30-2012 11:33 AM
Nas.a7x Stupid people do stupid things.
Smart people do stupid things.
Stupid people do smart things.
And so on and so forth. This debate will never end just wanted to put my 2˘ in. I'm not saying that that of u don't run sway bars that you will wreak. But they do surve a purpose
12-30-2012 11:28 AM
Speedy4x4
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkproximity View Post
I've never not had all four tires on the ground on road.. never had an accident, I've had to avoid idiots quite often on the freeway.. I also have Detroit lockers and drive on show and ice, which apparently is a deadly combination too if you believe the hype of the internet..
YES it is called defensive driving.

Most people need sway bars. Sorry. But not all.
Some of us have drove CJ's even Lifted CJ's

Just keep an eye all around you and no one will ever sneak up on you and cut you off

Never trust that other drivers know how to drive

Most wrecks are caused by wrong reactions to an event (Say someone cutting you off then you nailing the brakes and cranking the wheel. Result of that in a jeep is a roll over. (sway bar or not) )

I'm not wanting every Joe to go remove their sway bars just saying don't hate on those who do.

That being said mine are still on.
I have a lot of curvy roads on my way to work and like to take them a bit fast
12-30-2012 11:21 AM
Hanksride
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas.a7x View Post
O say that those who choose to drive on the streets and especially highways without a sway bar to have huge signs on their Jeeps so the rest of us can SAFELY STEER clear of the awaiting danger of those who think the sway bar is unnecessary. I personally like to have all 4 tires on the ground when they are supposed to be.....
Oh yeah, I remember now, it is jeeps that kill people, not people killing people!!
12-30-2012 11:17 AM
darkproximity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas.a7x View Post
O say that those who choose to drive on the streets and especially highways without a sway bar to have huge signs on their Jeeps so the rest of us can SAFELY STEER clear of the awaiting danger of those who think the sway bar is unnecessary. I personally like to have all 4 tires on the ground when they are supposed to be.....
I've never not had all four tires on the ground on road.. never had an accident, I've had to avoid idiots quite often on the freeway.. I also have Detroit lockers and drive on show and ice, which apparently is a deadly combination too if you believe the hype of the internet..
12-30-2012 10:54 AM
Hanksride
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Leaf springs are NOT more stable than coil springs, they can flex just as much (don't believe me? Check out some of the SOA conversions around here and other forums). Disconnect the swaybar on either a coil sprung Jeep or a Leaf Sprung Jeep and both should flex the same when you rock them side to side. If they don't then your springs haven't been worn in yet.

Stability and flexing are not the same issue. And there is so much more that goes into whether a jeep flexes properly or not than just what type of spring (leaf or coil) it has on it. This statement only proves your limited knowledge of how the geometry of jeeps actually work.

My Jeep is sitting on stock leafs and they flex relatively easily. A buddies Jeep sitting on brand new RE leafs flexes just as easily. My dads truck sitting on OME leafs (1984 4Runner) that rarely sees dirt flexes just as much as my Jeep, if not more, so I know it's not my leafs being worn out, and they are not sagging. Besides, the above comparison is VALID because the Jeep was using his swaybar. All a swaybar does is keeps the body parallel to the axle. Same exact concept behind a YJ.

Try tightening or loosening your shackle bolts to different torque specs and run your same test you just spoke of. You will have entirely different responses from your YJ.

Also I call bull**** to anyone who says their Jeep can corner at 2x the posted speed limits around corners without any body roll, that's just flat out arrogance. Maybe you don't know what body roll is then, but I'm not believing it for one moment. The whole point behind removing your swaybar is to gain MORE flex in the front end- what do you think is going to happen in a corner? Obviously you are going to flex more, and the centrifugal forces acting upon the body are going to pull it outward.
I don't know about cornering at 2x the speed limit, I would think that would have to take into account the rode conditions, whether or not the corner was actually rated correctly to begin with, all my tie-rods, ball joints, tire condition, steering components etc were in the right working order. I suppose there is more to compare here than rather or not I have sway bars and track bars installed as to how fast I could take a corner in my jeep. I will say that mine corners better now without the sway bars and track bars than when it did when I bought the jeep with stock springs and everything installed. When I drove it home, it scared me to death to get 30 miles to the house.

Check the thread out below, it is copied from JeepForum and has been running this same argument for years back and forth. If you can't learn about track and sway bars from this then I don't where you can get anymore info.

One option is to take them all off, drive the jeep for about a week and then you decide if you want them back on there. It is obvious that a lot of people don't use them so I don't think anything would happen in a week.


I personally like post number 60, that is where my bars went and then they went to the local scrap yard about 2 years ago.

Front track and sway bar removal with pics (questions merged here as well) - JeepForum.com

OP - It is your choice, don't let myself or anyone else give you bad advice. Read their experiences and take from it what you will. This is probably the most debated subject I have ever seen when it comes to YJ's but in the end each individual has to make their decision. I just hate it when people can't compare apples to apples.
12-30-2012 10:52 AM
Nas.a7x O say that those who choose to drive on the streets and especially highways without a sway bar to have huge signs on their Jeeps so the rest of us can SAFELY STEER clear of the awaiting danger of those who think the sway bar is unnecessary. I personally like to have all 4 tires on the ground when they are supposed to be.....
12-30-2012 09:57 AM
darkproximity Leafs resist in multiple directions.. coils resist in one...

That being said leaf springs are known by the state of California to cause cancer. So in the end if you don't die from spontaneous combustion or flipping and rolling your Jeep because a cat ran out in front of you, the cancer will end up getting you
12-30-2012 09:57 AM
Ianbeaulieu He is correct, have yall ever seen a coil spring break free from a vehicle? Hell rains down
12-30-2012 09:53 AM
1990JEEPYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcal_Chris View Post

Im sorry... but that COULD NOT be furthur from the truth. It is a well known fact that leafs have way more lateral stability and predictability than coils. Also they are less prone to unload on sidehills. Please dont spread false information.
This guy right here.
12-30-2012 09:38 AM
Norcal_Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Leaf springs are NOT more stable than coil springs, they can flex just as much (don't believe me? .


Im sorry... but that COULD NOT be furthur from the truth. It is a well known fact that leafs have way more lateral stability and predictability than coils. Also they are less prone to unload on sidehills. Please dont spread false information.
12-30-2012 09:22 AM
Xpress Leaf springs are NOT more stable than coil springs, they can flex just as much (don't believe me? Check out some of the SOA conversions around here and other forums). Disconnect the swaybar on either a coil sprung Jeep or a Leaf Sprung Jeep and both should flex the same when you rock them side to side. If they don't then your springs haven't been worn in yet.

My Jeep is sitting on stock leafs and they flex relatively easily. A buddies Jeep sitting on brand new RE leafs flexes just as easily. My dads truck sitting on OME leafs (1984 4Runner) that rarely sees dirt flexes just as much as my Jeep, if not more, so I know it's not my leafs being worn out, and they are not sagging. Besides, the above comparison is VALID because the Jeep was using his swaybar. All a swaybar does is keeps the body parallel to the axle. Same exact concept behind a YJ.

Also I call bull**** to anyone who says their Jeep can corner at 2x the posted speed limits around corners without any body roll, that's just flat out arrogance. Maybe you don't know what body roll is then, but I'm not believing it for one moment. The whole point behind removing your swaybar is to gain MORE flex in the front end- what do you think is going to happen in a corner? Obviously you are going to flex more, and the centrifugal forces acting upon the body are going to pull it outward.
12-30-2012 08:30 AM
SHAWN3R
Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonPlinker View Post
Next year Im planning a soa/axle swap... For now Im thinking I will ditch the sway and trac bars and install 1 1/4" body lift, 1 1/4" boomerang shackles and a spartan locker in the rear. I already have yukon axles in the rearend.

From what Ive read so far I can do these mods without needing sye or even brake lines? Supposedly I can just drop the radiator with the body lift and keep everything else how it is? Am I wrong in this assumption? What have I missed? Any suggestions people might have would be greatly appreciated and thank you for reading and lending your expertise!
A body lift dosnt effect drive line angles if you drop the t-case. If you dont drop it spend the extra $100 and do a motor mount lift. That will help with the drive line angles. If they do change you can put shims on the spring perch to get the angles better. You will not need a sye
12-30-2012 08:23 AM
OregonPlinker I know my stock YJ I had a few years ago handled fine with no sway or track bars. I think they are still in my shop somewhere. I ran that thing pretty hard a few times on back roads. Doubling the suggested speed on 35-45 mph corners... I normally take it real easy but if somebody wants to ride my bumper and act like a jerk I will surely return the favor...lol. Im sure if you jerked it one way and then the other while the springs are loaded you could flip a lot of rigs. My cousin flipped an escort gt on gravel swerving to miss a dog, over correcting and going a little too fast. I was always told you dont swerve unless its well anticipated. If all you have time to do is react you only hit the brakes. Ive had a few close calls and at freeway speeds just a half second on the brakes hard is plenty of time to get out of someones way. Whether you get rearended or not is another story...
12-30-2012 08:11 AM
djwrangler if you mostly drive on the streets at high sleds speeds i'd recommend disconnects for the swaybar.

With that said, ive been running no swaybar on my yj for 6 months and have no problem on the highway. I swerved pretty hard avoiding a blown big rig tire at about 70mph. a swaybar would have certainly helped but I didn't roll or lose control.

I also noticed better handling when I switched to my wider wheels and tires compared to stock with no swaybar.

disconnects are the best of both worlds.
12-30-2012 03:50 AM
1990JEEPYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkproximity View Post

You have that same problem too? Jeep just goes BOOM! out of nowhere?
Yeah! Any time above 25 mph. It's those darn sway bars and track bars. Should have never sold them.
12-30-2012 03:44 AM
darkproximity
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990JEEPYJ View Post

Really? And here I am thinking I am a unique butterfly.
You have that same problem too? Jeep just goes BOOM! out of nowhere?
12-30-2012 03:38 AM
1990JEEPYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkproximity View Post
Every time I drive on the freeway my Jeep spontaneously combusts due to lack of sway bars
Really? And here I am thinking I am a unique butterfly.
12-30-2012 03:35 AM
darkproximity Every time I drive on the freeway my Jeep spontaneously combusts due to lack of sway bars
12-30-2012 03:10 AM
Ianbeaulieu
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990JEEPYJ View Post

Yeah but there is a huge difference in stability of coils vs. Leafs.
I agree, but its still the same principle
12-30-2012 03:09 AM
1990JEEPYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianbeaulieu View Post
I would keep sway bars on or get quick discos, as far as yall now he could have been going down a high at about 60 or 70 and then some ass cut him off and slammed on the brakes causing him to swerve and wreck, alittle more flex isnt worth your life or your Jeep guys
Yeah but there is a huge difference in stability of coils vs. Leafs.
12-30-2012 02:59 AM
Ianbeaulieu I would keep sway bars on or get quick discos, as far as yall now he could have been going down a high at about 60 or 70 and then some ass cut him off and slammed on the brakes causing him to swerve and wreck, alittle more flex isnt worth your life or your Jeep guys
12-30-2012 02:19 AM
Hanksride
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Our Jeeps ABSOLUTELY need a swaybar, you just do NOT know when someone will cut you off, especially with the generation of drivers that are beginning to take to the roads nowadays. It's not guaranteeing you won't flip your Jeep, it's just giving you a better chance of keeping all 4 on the ground incase of emergency, and that's a proven fact.. This was stolen from another forum, but it shows just what can happen to even a stock Jeep if someone decides they need to be exactly where you are at a moments notice:







Someone cut him off, which in turn caused him to roll it 3 times before coming to a stop.

The Track Bars however, our YJ's just don't need. The swaybar does more than a good enough job of keeping the body parallel to the ground, the Track Bars just bind up everything, and can actually cause items to break and wear out prematurely with Leaf Springs if you offroad at all.
I bet that thing had sway bars and trac bars on it and still looks like a wreck. The trac bars and sway bars aren't going to save you in a crisis. That is a coil sprung jeep (unlike the YJ's) total different animal. My daughter has a TJ and I would not take either one off of it for a second due to the coil springs. My YJ handles better with out the bars than her TJ does with them. If you think it won't work then you have not tried it!
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