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Thread: So I have a winch. Now I need a few snatch blocks. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-02-2013 10:33 AM
3JKs1H1 I've used those 30K ones with Humvees for years without issue. It's two peices of 1/4 steel, a solid pulley, and a pin. Nothing special, no bearing to fill with mud. I had a Warn 16.5 double-lined with one many a time pulling somebody in a Humvee, Jeep, Lancruiser, Pinz, fallen trees, etc out of deep mud, ice, over rocks. Never an issue.

You should also carry at least one wheel chock, preferably two if you want to use your vehicle as an anchor point.
01-02-2013 09:20 AM
BlueRidgeYJ Keep in mind your typical usage. If you often have to use only 1, buy an ARB and a couple RR or equivilent. If you always use 3, get 3 high $$$ ones. I wouldn't shy away just from cost/name, but with ALL rigging equip inspect it before and after each use. If you make $ with it get the best available. If you use it for hoisting (vertical pulls) get the best available. If you use it twice a year for 120* redirect, make your own choice. I won't say buy the china version, but in those instances they should work fine. Just not forever.

Also, sealed bearings (like the ARB) are costly, but keep junk out of the roller assy. A little sand/mud/grime in the wrong spot and the pulley is toast.
01-02-2013 01:18 AM
WatchThis! I have been using them for a while now and use them a few times a month. If I used them everyday I would go with something else.
01-02-2013 01:09 AM
paleh0rse So what is the general consensus on the. 30,000lb Rugged Ridge blocks?
01-02-2013 12:34 AM
Jeeps_and_Boats Coming from a sailing perspective, we ditched wire rope back in the 70's. Why on earth anyone still uses it is beyond me. Meat hooks abound.

Harbor Freight perpetuating the problem?
01-02-2013 12:31 AM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by WatchThis!
Wow man you are fired up about it ant you? I have seen all kinds of blocks groved from steel line (no one I wheel with uses it anymore anyways)

It dosent matter how big your winch is, its about how big of a bind you put your rigging in that will harm it.

Have you ever owned or used any of the blocks that I am talking about? Or are you just calling them crap because you spent money on something better and there is no way something cheaper could work just as good in your mind?
I'm not fired up. But I am sitting in front of a fire. Does that count? Ha.

I told you I don't buy crap. So how would I have owned it much less use it?!

I guess we could go on forever. You've made your point and I have made mine. Maybe you're missing the point I'm making about substandard parts, regardless I digress.

Just trying to give the OP constructive info based on the flow of the thread.

Didn't mean to offend you.
01-02-2013 12:10 AM
WatchThis! Wow man you are fired up about it ant you? I have seen all kinds of blocks groved from steel line (no one I wheel with uses it anymore anyways)

It dosent matter how big your winch is, its about how big of a bind you put your rigging in that will harm it.

Have you ever owned or used any of the blocks that I am talking about? Or are you just calling them crap because you spent money on something better and there is no way something cheaper could work just as good in your mind?
01-02-2013 12:01 AM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by WatchThis!

Have you evere compared them to the high dollar warn ones that they used to make just like them (they may still make them) the only difference is the warn ones have a grease fitting.

I have spent my hole adult life working around rigging and chose to go with what I did for several reasons. Trust me I am not just trying to save a buck or two, thats not my style when it comes to offroading.
Its not like I use my recovery gear every day. Just 5 or 6 times a month.
Hey if it that works for you great. But from a guy who's personally seen his own roller wheel (which is supposed to be designed for this purpose) become grooved and mangled from steel cable winching I am quite shocked you'd still use it and recommend it to others! That steel is substandard CRAP, based on what you have said yourself.

I used to wheel hard and the warn 12,000 pound winch with steel cable I used NEVER even put a surface scratch in the warm snatch block.

And, to answer your question: no. With all due respect, I don't even look at crap stuff for recovery or other safety gear (roll cage material, stinger materials, etc). I've learned my lesson long ago in that arena. That being said, I have crap tools in my toolbox that I've used once or twice but I don't have my life or that of others on the line when I use em.
01-01-2013 11:51 PM
WatchThis!
Quote:
Originally Posted by COStrider View Post

I guess that works if you trust your life to sub standard quality piece of crap. Snatch blocks are very serious pieces of equipment. You'll get safety and longevity out of high quality equipment like Warn and ARB. Save money elsewhere IMHO
Have you evere compared them to the high dollar warn ones that they used to make just like them (they may still make them) the only difference is the warn ones have a grease fitting.

I have spent my hole adult life working around rigging and chose to go with what I did for several reasons.
Trust me I am not just trying to save a buck or two, thats not my style when it comes to offroading.
Its not like I use my recovery gear every day. Just 5 or 6 times a month.

How often do you use yours?
01-01-2013 11:37 PM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPi1

No, those aren't necessary, but neither is a $50,000 jeep when you can buy a YJ for $3000, they do the same thing, right?
Lol. Point well said
01-01-2013 11:36 PM
COStrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by WatchThis!
I use rugged ridge ones that I got on Ebay cheap, they are light and have held up to every thing I have put them through. I dont see the point in spending 100 a block when you can do it for 30. And yes I run my synthetic line threw them all the time.
I guess that works if you trust your life to sub standard quality piece of crap. Snatch blocks are very serious pieces of equipment. You'll get safety and longevity out of high quality equipment like Warn and ARB. Save money elsewhere IMHO
01-01-2013 11:26 PM
3JKs1H1 I used to run with a group of Humvee owners that found difficult trails worthy of our time. most of us carried 3 tow/snatch straps, 4-drings (all sizes), several jacks. all H1's had front winches, most with synthethic, some had rear as well. And a couple snatch blocks, leather gloves and a blanket to lay on or toss over a stresses line.

Somepody had a shovel, treesaw, and chainsaw for use when trail was blocked.

D-rings the allowed connection points. Anything with a hook was discouraged. We had sand anchors as well.
01-01-2013 10:00 PM
reade would be good to check them once in a while too huh?
01-01-2013 09:58 PM
jklarry don't forget the four rusty little bolts holding your winch down
01-01-2013 09:04 PM
reade Well for now I found three Smittybulit 18000 blocks on Amazon "as new" condition for $15.00 a piece shipped so I nabbed them. I'll be on the lookout for a deal on a 30,000 but the bargains will do in the meantime.
01-01-2013 07:54 PM
BlueRidgeYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by greentrib
Thought this was interesting. Its how to winch your self out to the rear when your winch is on your front bumper. It takes 3 snatch blocks and tree savers.

Reverse winch - You Tube
Saw that they other day too. Totally awesome; I thought no way that could work, but the physics make it. Great to know, and one heck of a reason to get a 3rd block.

It does perfectly illistrate why/how the rigging needs double rating, though. The rear connection point is getting 2x the pulling force of the front (the winch itself), so it obviously needs a higher rating. If you put a post behind his jeep, cause that's the only way he is stuck, it would stall the winch. Then 2x the stall force would be applied to the rear connection point.
01-01-2013 07:49 PM
greentrib Thought this was interesting. Its how to winch your self out to the rear when your winch is on your front bumper. It takes 3 snatch blocks and tree savers.

Reverse winch - You Tube
01-01-2013 07:46 PM
BlueRidgeYJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavsvet74

Absolutely a good thing. Keep in mind, when you use a snatch block to double the line back to the Jeep, you double the pulling force. A 9000# winch becomes a 18000# winch. 9000# of force gets be applied to each leg of the winch line. The snatch block holds one end of each leg. Therefore the snatch block needs to be rated for the extra load.

(if I'm way off on this, please feel free to correct me.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck

yeah this is what im trying to figure out myself, if the pulleys offer a mechanical advantage, do you just assume each pulley should be rated double what the winch is rated for? same thing with the straps you use?
Yes, all blocks, shackles, and tree straps must be 2x the winch rating if using a snatch block(s). They are subjected (potentially) to 2x the stall pull of your winch. The line itself is still subjected to 1x the force. This is basically a movable pulley system, and doesn't offer very good mechanical advantage, physics wise. Much better would be to use 2 blocks (tree & bumper), which would essentially form a compound pulley on the jeep, giving significant mechanical advantage (3x rating vs 2x rating). The rigging used then would still need to be 2x the pulling strength. You would need a very complicated block & tackle to need more than 2x SB ratings, I am not sure off hand how / if it could be done with common off road rigging. The trade is distance for force, but the work remains the same (Work = Force ● Distance). So given this thought, your 8K (for instance) winch could easily put 24k pounds of "move-it" with a couple pulleys on your stuck jeep. That is a lot of pressure and force, and you want no part of it's failure. The highest load bearing parts are the rigging points. If you use the same anchor, it needs to have strength for each leg (two legs x 16kea = 32k total + safety margin). So don't do that. Poor trees.

If you are buying at maximum load strength or break rating, factor in an aggressive saftey factor, like 3:1 or more. Dynamic loads can be much, much more than the load weight itself. Some equipment factors this in already, particularly real "rigging" equipment (for vertical suspension). You're pulling up a hill, think you can get it, roll it up a little then slide back - when the line catches you can put 5x the weight of the jeep on the line, not a good scenario, especially if the rigging gives way.

The Army recovery manual is a great resource for calculating stuck loads. A 4k lb jeep in the mud up to the frame on a 15% slope can require something like 13k lbs to move. Snatch blocks make it all possible, if rigged properly. If not, they are missles.
01-01-2013 01:15 PM
BeyondYourFrontDoor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigunman View Post
While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.
Often, the vehicle that is 'stuck' really isn't that stuck at all... it is at some mechanical disadvantage and just needs to get help moving. You can't cheat physics... if the stuck vehicle has more friction holding it than your rescue vehicle, it isn't moving and your recovery vehicle is.

When you are seeing this type of recovery, the 'stuck' vehicle is usually trying to drive out... It is a vastly different operation if you are dead-lifting the stuck vehicle (not drivable) and this is why tow-trucks have massive capacity.

It's like someone 'stuck' in the snow... often 2-3 people can push them out. Put it in neutral and watch them push it? Not going to happen. Put it in park? Ha ha...
01-01-2013 01:13 PM
WatchThis!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck View Post

yeah this is what im trying to figure out myself, if the pulleys offer a mechanical advantage, do you just assume each pulley should be rated double what the winch is rated for? same thing with the straps you use?
Good question. I wondered this myself. Thats why I went with a 30lb blocks. Maby someone with the knowledge will weigh in. But I think I remember from a rigging class that I went to a long time ago that the load on the block/ strap will be the same as what the winch is pulling in a single line pull. But I might be wrong on this.
01-01-2013 12:48 PM
calvarycoffee
01-01-2013 12:18 PM
sneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavsvet74 View Post
Absolutely a good thing. Keep in mind, when you use a snatch block to double the line back to the Jeep, you double the pulling force. A 9000# winch becomes a 18000# winch. 9000# of force gets be applied to each leg of the winch line. The snatch block holds one end of each leg. Therefore the snatch block needs to be rated for the extra load.

(if I'm way off on this, please feel free to correct me.)
yeah this is what im trying to figure out myself, if the pulleys offer a mechanical advantage, do you just assume each pulley should be rated double what the winch is rated for? same thing with the straps you use?
01-01-2013 12:17 PM
WatchThis!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigunman View Post
While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.
A little FYI. If you hold on the brakes and winch you can get way more pull then if you had a strap and tried to pull someone with your tires. Sometimes you whill drag the other vehicles twards you and they have to be anchored down, but not allways. It helps also to find a rut or something to park the anchor vehicle in or even better sideways and in a rut as long as you are not going to blow a bead on the anchor vehicles tire. I had 3 jeeps tied to mine one time and my snached off M8000 ended up draging all them down hill to me. Had to tie two of them to trees. You learn to get real creative when doing things like this
01-01-2013 12:12 PM
reade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigunman View Post
While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.
No problem with me, I'd rather "waste" a few words and possibly learn something now than not and find myself in a bind later.
01-01-2013 12:08 PM
WatchThis!
Quote:
Originally Posted by reade View Post

I intend on buying three blocks, that's why I'm hoping to find a "cheaper" solution. Maybe a "good" one and a couple of $30.00 ones would do?
That would work out great probably. I use recovery equipment on a regular basis on the trails and have seen just about every make and price range of blocks used. Thats why I use what I use along with an assortment of straps that I allways bring along. The only proble I have had so far is that I had to smooth out one of my RR ones after running someones steal line threw it becouse it put a lot of groves in it.

Whatever you do be sure you get good straps not the cheap Harbor Freigh ones if you plan on using them often. I guess they would be ok if you only used them once a year or so.
01-01-2013 12:03 PM
Michigunman While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.
01-01-2013 11:57 AM
cavsvet74
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPi1 View Post
I learned to use the best I can get my hands on. I've seen even the good stuff fail.
Valid point. Working in the trades, you learn quickly that it doesn't pay to buy cheap tools.

That said, there is a difference in buying cheap and buying inexpensive.
01-01-2013 11:52 AM
reade JPi1, by the way, that rig is awesome. Yeah $100.00 would be cheap if you had to call out help. What do you like about the ARB design compared to the stamped steel ones?

I intend on buying three blocks, that's why I'm hoping to find a "cheaper" solution. Maybe a "good" one and a couple of $30.00 ones would do?
01-01-2013 11:51 AM
cavsvet74
Quote:
Originally Posted by reade View Post
I can see merit in buying a 30,000 lbs one as opposed to a 10,000. That's got to be a good thing.
Absolutely a good thing. Keep in mind, when you use a snatch block to double the line back to the Jeep, you double the pulling force. A 9000# winch becomes a 18000# winch. 9000# of force gets be applied to each leg of the winch line. The snatch block holds one end of each leg. Therefore the snatch block needs to be rated for the extra load.

(if I'm way off on this, please feel free to correct me.)
01-01-2013 11:50 AM
JPi1
Quote:
Originally Posted by reade
JPi1, can you tell me about your rig? What winch, wire or synthetic? Have you used the ARB long?

Me, I have synthetic and I am concerned about ruining it with a poor snatch block but I'm still not sure if there is really a difference in the $30.00 and the $100.00 ones. I think I need to go somewhere and hold each to see for myself?
I use a Warn 9.5ti, wire rope. I bought the ARB snatch block after a incident where no one had one at all, I just seem to buy overkill stuff like that. When you need a piece of recovery equipment, $100 isn't much.
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