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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-23-2014 07:30 AM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleOught View Post
A lot of things can contribute to DW but the track bar is the single most important item to prevent it. Also check your unit bearings and make sure they have no play. If a new stablilizer "fixed" it, you probably have other problems that you are not aware of.
Read back a few posts. I've replaced everything except the drag link, although I replaced its tie rod.

I know for a fact tires without any weights (completely unbalanced) will cause the vehicle to start DW at extremely low MPH.
02-23-2014 07:24 AM
DoubleOught A lot of things can contribute to DW but the track bar is the single most important item to prevent it. Also check your unit bearings and make sure they have no play. If a new stablilizer "fixed" it, you probably have other problems that you are not aware of.
02-23-2014 07:17 AM
BusinessRogue Update! Got my tires balanced. Death wobble gone. Now, I didn't have any weights in the tires because the idiot who flipped them (even out the wear) took out the weights. This can make a vehicle DW at 15MPH in 2WD with the right bump.

Waiting on my alignment until my new rear adjustable track bar comes in to center the axles.
02-18-2014 07:19 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewillfly View Post
no worries mate - keep us updated... I'm curious to see if that stuff actually works! I plan to be buried in this jeep, anything helps to keep it running !
I'll know more tomorrow, going to get my tires re-balanced and have an alignment done. I'll update then. I just want it to be 100% before I take it on a trip and get 300 miles away from home.
02-18-2014 07:16 PM
Hewillfly
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessRogue View Post
Thanks for the advice I greatly appreciate it my man.
no worries mate - keep us updated... I'm curious to see if that stuff actually works! I plan to be buried in this jeep, anything helps to keep it running !
02-18-2014 05:28 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewillfly View Post
Check the condition of your transmission.... I thought I had DW too. I got had to replace my torque converter because it tc lock up issues... Anywho no more DW afterwards. I later found out about a friction modifier that fixes that sort of shudder problem, it's called Dr. Tranny - google : " dr tranny jeep tj" you'll see what other people are saying. I don't know if it's snake oil but it's worth a shot before spending 1500 to have ur tc replaced. IMHO
Thanks for the advice I greatly appreciate it my man.
02-18-2014 05:23 PM
Hewillfly Check the condition of your transmission.... I thought I had DW too. I got had to replace my torque converter because it tc lock up issues... Anywho no more DW afterwards. I later found out about a friction modifier that fixes that sort of shudder problem, it's called Dr. Tranny - google : " dr tranny jeep tj" you'll see what other people are saying. I don't know if it's snake oil but it's worth a shot before spending 1500 to have ur tc replaced. IMHO
02-18-2014 03:39 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubiconvict05 View Post
By the way replacing your steering stabilizer will only mask any problem. I'm not saying that it wasn't a bad choice but a S.S. won't correct the problem at hand.
The strut no longer had pressure so I replaced it. About page 14 I noticed the trend. Lol

Although I could have 6 and mine would probably get worse.
02-18-2014 03:09 PM
rubiconvict05 By the way replacing your steering stabilizer will only mask any problem. I'm not saying that it wasn't a bad choice but a S.S. won't correct the problem at hand.
02-18-2014 03:07 PM
rubiconvict05 I have finially tracked down the source of my death wobble. Now I know there are 92 pages to this thread so forgive me if this has been covered.
I needed to replace my front u joints, during the disassembly I removed the front hubs both had a dried mud ring that disallowed me to feel wheel bearing wobble with the standard shake test. I replaced the wheelbearings and boom wobble completely gone. Prior to this discovery I had replaced all steering linkage, all ball joints, track bar, pitman arm, tires, had the rims checked for trueness, checked all bolts and nuts for tightness from steering wheel to steering box for tightness, and controll arm bushings and bolts for correctness. I then had two alignments. After replacing the wheelbearings I then had another alignment. This was a long fought battle where I didn't throw parts at it but replaced everything that had even the slightest amount or wear.
02-18-2014 01:36 PM
BusinessRogue WELL!

I've changed my :

Track Bar
Tie Rod End (of drag-link)
Steering Stabilizer
Power Steering Gear (the whole thing)

Now, the DW starts at 30MPH. I'm thinking tires...balancing/alignment? Anyone have any ideas?
02-15-2014 01:17 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_13 View Post

It will rotate a bit since there are tie rod ends on both sides, but should be stiff if trying to rotate by hand.
I would check bolt tightness on both ends with a torque wrench first. Then check them for slop during the dry steer test.
Got it thank you.
02-15-2014 01:16 PM
Shark_13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessRogue View Post

Good information. So I have a question. Last night I was adjusting my steering wheel to center, and that whole drag link bar could move...I'm guessing it should be stiff and not move unless I turn the steering wheel, right?
It will rotate a bit since there are tie rod ends on both sides, but should be stiff if trying to rotate by hand.
I would check bolt tightness on both ends with a torque wrench first. Then check them for slop during the dry steer test.
02-15-2014 01:07 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
The bigger issue with DW is the harm it does to every part in your front end.
Let's say you have a loose track bar bolt and experience DW. Once ... Twice .... Whatever.
Easy fix right ? Tighten the loose bolt. Wrong !!
The DW kills ball joints, tie rod ends, control arm bushings. Ruins steering box. Wallows track bar holes, and in some cases rips the track bar right of the jeep.
It's very important to do a 100% inspection. I mean everything. Pull of the track bar (#1 cause for DW) and inspect the holes for wear/ovaling, then inspect the welds. Then on to the Track bar TRE. Then ball joints. Then inspect the other TRE's. Control arm bushings and mounts, lastly the pitman arm where it goes into the steering box, the dry steer will reveal any play.
I'm sure I missed something ... Check everything !!!!!!!
Good information. So I have a question. Last night I was adjusting my steering wheel to center, and that whole drag link bar could move...I'm guessing it should be stiff and not move unless I turn the steering wheel, right?
02-15-2014 12:58 PM
kjeeper10 The bigger issue with DW is the harm it does to every part in your front end.
Let's say you have a loose track bar bolt and experience DW. Once ... Twice .... Whatever.
Easy fix right ? Tighten the loose bolt. Wrong !!
The DW kills ball joints, tie rod ends, control arm bushings. Ruins steering box. Wallows track bar holes, and in some cases rips the track bar right of the jeep.
It's very important to do a 100% inspection. I mean everything. Pull of the track bar (#1 cause for DW) and inspect the holes for wear/ovaling, then inspect the welds. Then on to the Track bar TRE. Then ball joints. Then inspect the other TRE's. Control arm bushings and mounts, lastly the pitman arm where it goes into the steering box, the dry steer will reveal any play.
I'm sure I missed something ... Check everything !!!!!!!
02-15-2014 12:45 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_13 View Post

Just like how it sounds, you hit a bump and the Jeep steers by itself.
This happens because the track bar and drag link are not parallel anymore ( drag link is too low due to the dropped Pitman arm)
Start by replacing it, reset your alignment (toe in), then do the dry steer test , if you just experienced death wobble you will see something moving that shouldn't be.
See above. I thought I was going to be killed by my TJ.
02-15-2014 12:41 PM
Shark_13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessRogue View Post

What exactly is bump steer?
Just like how it sounds, you hit a bump and the Jeep steers by itself.
This happens because the track bar and drag link are not parallel anymore ( drag link is too low due to the dropped Pitman arm)
Start by replacing it, reset your alignment (toe in), then do the dry steer test , if you just experienced death wobble you will see something moving that shouldn't be.
02-15-2014 12:32 PM
BusinessRogue OK folks. I thought I had experienced death wobble, until today. Now, our roads here are due to all the semi traffic hauling grain every single day.

Here I am, driving home after another unsuccessful adventure into Advanced Auto Parts...and out of no where my steering wheel is violently going back and forth so fast it's almost a vibration, but it feels like the TJ is going throw itself left and right for miles so I slam it into 4WD and it slowly stops.

I honestly thought I was going to die. Now, I just fixed my steering wheel and got it all centered and re-tightened the but on the drop pitman arm but that was it. Why the did my TJ do that NOW, but never before?

Note: there's always been a slight shimmy in the wheel when I hit a bump but this time, I thought I was going to die since it did it as 62mph.
02-15-2014 09:15 AM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
With the TJ's type y steering it does more harm them good it seams. Unless you separate the drag link and tie rod and raise the track bar like the JK. You're essentially lowering front center of gravity or roll center. On a JK or a true high steer set up. The drag link is raised over the knuckle and the track bar is raised. This raises the front roll center and take a lot of stress off the steering box-unlike a DPA.
Thank you for the explanation.
02-15-2014 09:14 AM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_13 View Post

I think they were quite common with earlier Jeeps, they were actually needed with a lift. But on TJ's they generally cause bump steer.
Luckily you can find a new stock one for under $30, or maybe score a used one. I got lucky and found one free on craigslist.
What exactly is bump steer?
02-15-2014 08:40 AM
Shark_13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessRogue View Post

Question, why would the previous owner install a dropped pitman arm, if its going to cause all these issues? Because of the lift?
I think they were quite common with earlier Jeeps, they were actually needed with a lift. But on TJ's they generally cause bump steer.
Luckily you can find a new stock one for under $30, or maybe score a used one. I got lucky and found one free on craigslist.
02-15-2014 08:03 AM
kjeeper10 With the TJ's type y steering it does more harm them good it seams. Unless you separate the drag link and tie rod and raise the track bar like the JK. You're essentially lowering front center of gravity or roll center. On a JK or a true high steer set up. The drag link is raised over the knuckle and the track bar is raised. This raises the front roll center and take a lot of stress off the steering box-unlike a DPA.
02-15-2014 07:23 AM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwch99tj View Post

Some lifts include them in the "package" so people install them thinking they're necessary
you should only install one if you have a drop track bar mount also
I don't, so that's good to know. Man, I'm learning a ton about how all this works. Thanks for all the help.
02-15-2014 07:19 AM
wwch99tj
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessRogue View Post

Question, why would the previous owner install a dropped pitman arm, if its going to cause all these issues? Because of the lift?
Some lifts include them in the "package" so people install them thinking they're necessary
you should only install one if you have a drop track bar mount also
02-15-2014 07:14 AM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_13 View Post

Stock vs dropped Pitman fyi
Question, why would the previous owner install a dropped pitman arm, if its going to cause all these issues? Because of the lift?
02-14-2014 10:25 PM
Shark_13 Attachment 768265

Stock vs dropped Pitman fyi
02-14-2014 10:21 PM
Shark_13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessRogue View Post

Obviously I had no idea what you were talking about with the whole dropped pitman arm, but I believe it does. From the PO
Same experience I had when I bought my Jeep.
Find a stock Pitman arm, then reset your toe in. My guess is it will be a night and day difference in handling.

Also, do a dry steer test and watch the track bars and tie rod end for any movement/looseness.

I had slight dead spot in steering after I took care of everything else, and found a little wobble on frame side of front track bar. Tightened it up with long breaker bar, and drives much better.
02-14-2014 10:00 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_13 View Post

Do you have a dropped Pitman arm?? Kind of sounds like bump steer.
Check track bar connections as well.

Tire pressure??
Obviously I had no idea what you were talking about with the whole dropped pitman arm, but I believe it does. From the PO
02-14-2014 09:52 PM
BusinessRogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_13 View Post

Do you have a dropped Pitman arm?? Kind of sounds like bump steer.
Check track bar connections as well.

Tire pressure??
You know, there is a gap which I noticed tonight but I tightened the nut 100% but there was still a gap. Track bar checked.

Tire pressure is 25PSI
02-14-2014 09:49 PM
Shark_13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessRogue View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but my TJ throws itself all over the road if it goes over a horizontal bump (across the whole lane or just one tire) and feels like it's going to land in the ditch.

I don't know if this is what you are all calling "death wobble," because it sounds like what you're all feeling is in the steering wheel. I am feeling the tires slightly "turning" once coming over the bump but my impression is that it's more of the rear suspension reacting to the bump independently from the front <- thoughts?

I'll be looking over the whole front end tonight and figuring out what looks like it needs to be replaced, considering after wheeling last weekend I need to center my steering wheel.

NOTE: I live in IL - and our roads here are HORRIBLE from the freezing/thawing which causes ripples in the road. I'm not looking for a Cadillac type ride, but I'd like to know if this is expected or if there are components that need replacing.
Do you have a dropped Pitman arm?? Kind of sounds like bump steer.
Check track bar connections as well.

Tire pressure??
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