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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-19-2013 11:20 AM
Flopolopagus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codysrubicon View Post
At this point, I would say it is a linkage issue caused by the body lift and transfer drop. you are on the right track with the shift forks, but you need to take a step back and look at whats moving them.
Meh, too late. TC is out and almost taken apart. Lot of play with the chain. We will know in an hour or so. LUNCH BREAK!
01-19-2013 09:35 AM
Codysrubicon At this point, I would say it is a linkage issue caused by the body lift and transfer drop. you are on the right track with the shift forks, but you need to take a step back and look at whats moving them.
01-16-2013 09:20 AM
Flopolopagus I have some more info. Unfortunately, the problem exists, and with the shifter boot and plate off, I could hear more than ever.

I was driving in the snow today, before plows had a chance to clear any. My tires were floating on top of 4 inches of the stuff, so to get up a hill, I put it in 4 hi (shifting while in 2nd gear). First it sounded normal, and I could feel the traction. Then, once the torque added up near the crest of the hill, I heard a whining, winding up, getting louder the further I went. Then, a thunk , and it sounded normal again. It happens when I give it some torque, happening faster with speed. Finally, when shifting back to 2 hi, I put the lever down, and it was whining even more (thunks included) and after about 1/8 of a mile, it finally shifted back into 2, and sounded normal. Also, I recently played with the shifting linkage to make sure the lever lined up with the plate on the console. There for I know that it has the space to shift and is not restricted.

To my amateur brain, it sounds like a shifting fork problem in the transfer case. Any ideas?
01-12-2013 12:07 PM
Flopolopagus Good news everyone!

Well, mostly good news. The gear ratios match! Two turns of the linkage on the front and back equals 97% of a tire turn. So, that rules out the ratios being off (unless there is an ultimatum that I don't know about of course). Now, being new to lift kits, I need a tutorial for lowering the T-case so I can take a look. I will use the forum search tools, but if anyone here has tested one (or wrote one) and can vouch for it, I would appreciate a link.

Photos of the linkages, and looking for tips about adjusting. also, I find it worth noting that there is about a 1/2" of play in both of the linkages before the wheel turns (circumference of shaft).







01-10-2013 02:39 PM
lynn I tend to consider the simplest causes first (Occam's Razor).

Considering that you said it has a 6" lift, the first thing I'd check for proper function is the shifter and linkage. It sounds like the linkage is misaligned, and failed to properly select/fully engage the front drive gear in the tcase. The body lift may be interfering with the function of the shifter. You may need to change the tcase linkage mounting method to one that is not body mounted, such as this offering from Novak
Novak's 231 & 242 Cable Shifter Kit

I suggest you read/search the forum for discussion related to tcase linkage and body lifts, to determine if this could be the issue.

Of course it's still a good idea to confirm that your F&R gear ratios match.

I agree with your dad, it is a good idea to exercise the 4WD monthly (more important on older rigs than modern rigs). This needs to be performed in a place where the tires can slip a bit so they don't bind (see above posts). Common areas to do this are gravel/dirt roads, snowy/icy roads, grass, etc.
01-10-2013 02:27 PM
Buz 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopolopagus View Post
Everything you guys are saying makes sense. My usual driving habits almost never use 4wd, and according to my father (who knows a hell of a lot more about mudding around than I do) it is healthy for the vehicle to run 4wd at least once a month to keep everything lubed and ready to move. I could tell you the stories of his days, but this isn't the place.

Now comes the disappointing part, because I just changed the rear end lube last weekend. Before I have to throw away the brand new gasket (I will give the turning method a try first), I want to run by the possibility of what I mentioned earlier about the lever, and not having it locked properly due to the body's stop being misaligned. I am also curious about the geometry of the drive train and linkage. I don't know how to properly calibrate them to work right. Pics when I get out of work.

Tomorrow I get out of work early, and will have an update. Thanks guys for sticking with me to troubleshoot this issue.
if u look closely u'll c a tag between 2 of those cover-bolts. that'll display both ratio & whether lsd or not... most mechanics know to save..
01-10-2013 01:58 PM
Flopolopagus Everything you guys are saying makes sense. My usual driving habits almost never use 4wd, and according to my father (who knows a hell of a lot more about mudding around than I do) it is healthy for the vehicle to run 4wd at least once a month to keep everything lubed and ready to move. I could tell you the stories of his days, but this isn't the place.

Now comes the disappointing part, because I just changed the rear end lube last weekend. Before I have to throw away the brand new gasket (I will give the turning method a try first), I want to run by the possibility of what I mentioned earlier about the lever, and not having it locked properly due to the body's stop being misaligned. I am also curious about the geometry of the drive train and linkage. I don't know how to properly calibrate them to work right. Pics when I get out of work.

Tomorrow I get out of work early, and will have an update. Thanks guys for sticking with me to troubleshoot this issue.
01-10-2013 12:10 PM
Jerry Bransford
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn View Post
Not using 4WD on dry pavement has nothing to do with straight roadway or turning. Driveline bind occurs (even on straight roads with no turning) when using 4WD on a hard surface because the differentials do not turn the front and rear axles at exactly the same rate.
X2, especially since the front & rear axle ratios are never the same when you have a Dana 30 up front and a Dana 35 or Dana 44 in the rear. The front & rear axle ratios are always .01 off from each other due to their ring gear diameter differences. Like 3.07/3.08, 3.54/3.55, 3.73/3.74, 4.10/4.11, etc. Only the Rubicon has matching f/r axle ratios because its axles are both Dana 44s with the same ring gear diameters.

So even if you could drive 100% straight, and you can't, that .01 f/r axle ratio difference will eventually cause the drivetrain to bind up.
01-10-2013 11:49 AM
lynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopolopagus View Post
I know about not using 4wd on dry pavement, but the road was straight, and I turned the wheel no more than 5°....
Not using 4WD on dry pavement has nothing to do with straight roadway or turning. Driveline bind occurs (even on straight roads with no turning) when using 4WD on a hard surface because the differentials do not turn the front and rear axles at exactly the same rate.

Your pics show a Dana 35 rear differential and a Dana 30 front differential.
The only reliable ways to determine gear ratios (who knows what the PO may have done?)
is to pull the diff covers and read the stampings on the ring gear, or count teeth.
One other option is to rotate a wheel and count drive shaft turns, to approximate gear ratio.
Search forum for info on how to perform this method.
01-10-2013 11:17 AM
Flopolopagus First is the rear, shown below. The case reads: 46587

Attachment 196521


And here are two pics of the front, including the barcode label. The case reads: 46168

Attachment 196523



Attachment 196524

So, any info on whether or not these riffs are the same ratio would be greatly appreciated.
01-09-2013 12:17 PM
Jerry Bransford No, as you were already advised above, don't shift into Neutral to shift into 4Hi... driving with the front & rear shafts spinning the t-case input shafts actually helps the 4Hi gears to synchronize more easily. It was designed to be shifted into and out of 4Hi while driving, I would control it as it was designed to be.

231 is just the model of transfer case all Wranglers come with. Depending on the model year, it will either be an NV231 (New Venture 231) or NP 231 (New Process 231) due to the different owners of the manufacturer.
01-09-2013 11:28 AM
Flopolopagus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
In order to know if you actually have a problem or not, we first need to know if you understand the basic function of the 231 transfer case and on what kind of terrain you can lock it.

Also, you shouldn't have to shift the trans into neutral. Shifting between 2 and 4hi can be done on the fly. It definitely sounds like you've got some t-case linkage issues, especially if you're coupling a body lift with a dropped t-case skid. The stock linkage is already junk--stretching it out like that only compounds the issue.
My previous vehicle was an 2000 4wd Dakota, so shifting the transfer was straight-forward. I am not familiar with the term "231 transfer case." After work, I will grab the info off the front and rear differentials, as well as the transfer. I do believe the transfer is stock.

As for shifting the trans into neutral, I always do that just in case, even automatics. It shouldn't hurt it, as far as I know.

Thanks for the good starting points fellas. If any other info will help you to help me, please let me know.
01-09-2013 11:21 AM
Flopolopagus
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00tj2 View Post
"Some ice" ???? Please elaborate because if it was one or two patches and the rest of the ground was dry then that is a no no for the jeeps 4w drive system. Also, it could be possible that the previous owner put a new front axle in with a different gear ratio than the rear. The u joints could also be extremely loose on the front axle??
I know about not using 4wd on dry pavement, but the road was straight, and I turned the wheel no more than 5°. I will try again today after work to get more info. The gear ratio is a good idea to check, never thought of that. I will also check that after work. Thanks.
01-09-2013 07:10 AM
Imped In order to know if you actually have a problem or not, we first need to know if you understand the basic function of the 231 transfer case and on what kind of terrain you can lock it.

Also, you shouldn't have to shift the trans into neutral. Shifting between 2 and 4hi can be done on the fly. It definitely sounds like you've got some t-case linkage issues, especially if you're coupling a body lift with a dropped t-case skid. The stock linkage is already junk--stretching it out like that only compounds the issue.
01-09-2013 06:32 AM
00tj2 "Some ice" ???? Please elaborate because if it was one or two patches and the rest of the ground was dry then that is a no no for the jeeps 4w drive system. Also, it could be possible that the previous owner put a new front axle in with a different gear ratio than the rear. The u joints could also be extremely loose on the front axle??
01-08-2013 11:46 PM
CarolinaBound So driving, put the tranny in neutral, put in in 4wd, then put in back in drive. Did you hear the clunk before or after putting it back in drive?
01-08-2013 10:35 PM
Flopolopagus
4WD skipping like crazy

I picked up a 99 lifted TJ with a 2.5L and a 6" lift already installed. The front diff looks new, and the vehicle is in excellent condition for the year. With 78,000 miles, the 5 speed performs fine in 2WD (For the most part. Feels like there is some play in the drive shaft). The real issue is the 4WD, because, like an idiot, during the test drive I only used the 4WD at low speeds.

I was driving to work after we got a chill up here in MA, and noticed some ice on the road that I turned onto. I reduced my speed and put it in 4 just to be safe, and the thing clunked violently. (I did shift at about 30mph, but with the trans in neutral.) Now it is worth noting that the previous owner didn't adjust anything after the 2" body lift because the lever doesn't meet up with the stops on the body. 4 Hi is midway to the stop. The dash light for the lock is on, but the clunking was serious. My father tells me it may just be the lack of alignment of the lever to the stops on the body, and that it is causing it to engage improperly. I am a little more pessimistic. I plan on peeking in the transfer case anyway, but any opinions on the matter would be appreciated. Also, any how-to's on correcting the alignment issue would also be nice.

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